Karate in the Olympics?

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http://www.wsj.com/articles/which-kind-of-karate-has-olympic-chops-1443206488

Interesting article. Karate is making a push for inclusion in the 2020 Olympics. It's looking like it will be no contact (AKA point karate). WFK rules so 3 points for high kick, 2 points for body kick, 1 point for a punch), first to 8 points wins.

What an absolute f--ing joke. We already have TKD in the Olympics, no need for another variant of TMA striking. Would much rather see MMA or Muay Thai become an Olympic sport. Meanwhile, the IOC has been trying to eliminate wrestling (as old as the Olympics itself), yet they want to include this nonsense.
 
The thing to remember is that the 2020 inclusion is as a demo sport as the arranging city´s choice, not inclusion on the regular program (that was finalized by IOC long ago). WKF and its point karate rules has been recognized by IOC for over a decade, but what matters now is who can get the nod from the japanese OC. Now, the japanese OC and the arranging city would really be much happier to include baseball than any other sport (japan being basically the only nation on earth except the US that gives a crap about that snoozefest of a sport), but baseball requires expensive new purpose-built stadiums, while karate can be fought in more or less any building.

Oh, and Knockdown karate (kyokushin etc) is not out of the running yet.
 
Maybe BJJ will take Wrestling's place in the Olympics.
Slowly but surely all the MA are joining the Olympic. I should say the POPULAR ones.
 
I think eventually point fighting Karate will make it's way to the Olympics - whether it gets done before 2020 Tokyo or after - I think it will eventually happen as Karate is among the most widely followed martial arts.

I think with the Olympic committee - you're more likely to get in if the format comes across as respectful, gentleman-like & has a wide following.

I wouldn't be surprised if many many years from now BJJ eventually makes it's way to the olympics.

I don't see Muay Thai, Kickboxing or knockdown karate getting in. Way to violent for Olympic tastes I'd guess even though boxing is long term brain damage.
 
I think eventually point fighting Karate will make it's way to the Olympics - whether it gets done before 2020 Tokyo or after - I think it will eventually happen as Karate is among the most widely followed martial arts.

I think with the Olympic committee - you're more likely to get in if the format comes across as respectful, gentleman-like & has a wide following.

I wouldn't be surprised if many many years from now BJJ eventually makes it's way to the olympics.

I don't see Muay Thai, Kickboxing or knockdown karate getting in. Way to violent for Olympic tastes I'd guess even though boxing is long term brain damage.

I can't speak for Japan, but here in the US, MMA has skyrocketed in popularity and boxing has always been pretty popular. I just don't see typical sports fans getting excited about two guys in pajamas standing a couple of paces apart and pretending to punch and kick each other while points get awarded for pulled strikes that went near an unprotected area.
 
A sport is likely to become Olympic if it is:

- Popular
- International
- Tournament-friendly
- Spectator-friendly
- Socially respected
- Non-violent

If we award 1 point for each of these criteria, we get a scale from 0-6. Just for fun, let's score a few sports:

Tennis: 6 p
Soccer: 6 p
Running: 6 p

Amateur boxing: 5 p
Wrestling: 5 p
Fencing: 4 p

Point Karate: 4 p
BJJ: 3 p
Muay Thai: 0 p
MMA: 0 p
 
I can't speak for Japan, but here in the US, MMA has skyrocketed in popularity and boxing has always been pretty popular. I just don't see typical sports fans getting excited about two guys in pajamas standing a couple of paces apart and pretending to punch and kick each other while points get awarded for pulled strikes that went near an unprotected area.

You do realize that karate has been a panamerican game event since forever?
 
My two cents plus an interesting and most certainly relevant perspective at the end of my reply which I've read in issue #4 of Classical Fighting Arts Magazine.

We already have TKD in the Olympics, no need for another variant of TMA striking.

As unpopular as I know my view will be but I am inclined to agree with this. Point sparring rules Karate is not distinctive enough and certainly not as spectator friendly as WTF TKD to warrant it's inclusion in the Olympic Games.

I think eventually point fighting Karate will make it's way to the Olympics - whether it gets done before 2020 Tokyo or after - I think it will eventually happen as Karate is among the most widely followed martial arts.

Although I agree with you that karate is among the most widely followed martial arts I will say that I disagree that it will ever make it's way to the Olympics. The main thing (among quite a few things) standing in it's way is the lack of unity and uniformity as compared to WTF TKD. The piece that I will post at the end of my reply will got into that a little more.

I don't see Muay Thai, Kickboxing or knockdown karate getting in. Way to violent for Olympic tastes I'd guess even though boxing is long term brain damage.

Now this I agree with 100%.

A sport is likely to become Olympic if it is:

- Popular
- International
- Tournament-friendly
- Spectator-friendly
- Socially respected
- Non-violent

Although you gave point Karate 4 points based on this list of criteria (and I basically agree with you btw), I don't think it's so much the quantity of points as the quality of the points awarded and for me spectator friendliness is a HUGE factor which I would give or take away more than one point for. And compared to WTF/Kukkiwon TKD point Karate is much lower on the totem pole than TKD when it comes to spectator friendliness.

BUT, I am posting below some relevant portions of an editorial of Classical Fighting Arts which I think hit the nail on the head on why we can probably forget about seeing Karate in the Olympics. All I can advise is that everyone read it carefully and reflect on it. Bold-colored emphases are mine:

Probably because they have been unable to produce fighters of this calibre and presence, the WKF decided that karate needed to be made more spectacular and easier for the general public to understand so that it's success (and the survival of their organization) would be assured. They were aware that judo virtually disappeared after it became an Olympic sport because the rules necessary for it to be accepted as a sport made it extremely boring to watch. They resolved to avoid the same fate. The result was a set of regulations that have turned a once highly effective form of self defense into a cheap spectacle - a move that ultimately guarantees moderns karate's failure as both a sport, and as a martial art.

Taekwondo took this route long ago, and may have indeed inspired the WKF to move as it did. It achieved Olympic status by claiming to be a sport, and perhaps, in the time honored tradition of the Olympic Movement, "persuading" an official or two to vote in it's favor. One wonders whether it was worth the effort or the money. Olympic taekwondo is embarrassing to watch, and the taekwondo movement appears to be sinking into a cesspool of graft and corruption of it's own making. Despite it's status as an Olympic sport, or probably because of it, we see more frequently than ever in the pathetic performance of it's "athletes", the results of diluting something that was weak to start with.

It is interesting to note that as the Olympic karate movement has progressed, (if that is the right word), the ratio of officials to competitors appears to have increased dramatically. Furthermore, according to it's critics, while they seem able to send any number of officials to international meetings, they are frequently unable to provide funds to send athletes to compete overseas. This, according to one insider, has led to instances in the past where the "National Karate Champion" by elimination (who did not have the funds to travel to the competition venue) has been replaced by a competitor he had vanquished in the finals, who did!

What Olympic karate devotees are studiously ignoring is the fact that it is highly unlikely , some would say impossible, for karate ever to be admitted to the Olympic games. Taekwondo, backed by the entire resources of the Korean government, for reasons of national pride will fight tooth and nail to prevent it. When the communist Chinese host the games in a few years time, as is their right, they will introduce wushu as a new Olympic sport. At that point the Oriental combat category, for want of a better description, will be filled. As the Chinese and Koreans will continue to strenuously oppose (Japanese) karate's entry into the Olympic games, and as Olympic officials are already reducing the number of sports included in the Olympic games, the fate of competition karate appears to be sealed. The only possible solution would be for karate to enter as a sub-category of either taekwondo or wushu, an unlikely scenario as this would dramatically reduce the number of karate officials needed. As it is these very officials who will benefit most from Olympic karate, this act of political suicide is hardly likely to happen.
 
I would much rather get rid of WTF TKD and put in light contact Karate. WTF is unwatchable. And it would be rather cool to have Karate in the olympics.
 
Although you gave point Karate 4 points based on this list of criteria (and I basically agree with you btw), I don't think it's so much the quantity of points as the quality of the points awarded and for me spectator friendliness is a HUGE factor which I would give or take away more than one point for. And compared to WTF/Kukkiwon TKD point Karate is much lower on the totem pole than TKD when it comes to spectator friendliness.

Of course my scale is very simple. To clarify a few details on how I scored:

Popular: How many people do or watch the sport?
Spectator-friendly: Is it easy to follow the action on screen?


With that system, I considered Karate to be neither popular nor spectator-friendly. You can debate popularity, but I based this on points Karate as a competition sport, not Karate in general. Regarding spectator-friendliness, I witnessed friends and family of competitors at such Karate tournaments. Even they don't pay attention for more than a few minutes, because they have no idea what's going on.
 
Maybe BJJ will take Wrestling's place in the Olympics.
Slowly but surely all the MA are joining the Olympic. I should say the POPULAR ones.

BJJ would be awful as an Olympic sport. I'd imagine it would be reduced to who is the best 3 minute passer of the guard.

There should really just be a martial arts olympics. Forget the actual olympics, the MA that are there are just being destroyed.
 
seriously I don't get it why people are so obsessed with the olympic.
martial arts are not sports. why the fuck should we care if our martial arts do not make it to the olympic?
 
seriously I don't get it why people are so obsessed with the olympic.
martial arts are not sports. why the fuck should we care if our martial arts do not make it to the olympic?

Money and national support. For many struggling dojos it would make all the difference. For the organizations involved the economic bonus a olympic inclusion means, is huge. Also it means a boost in audience, newscover and popularity, just for the "olympic" stamp. Ofcourse, it is the final deathblow to the art and selfdefence aspects of the arts in question, and the beginning of a watering down of the sport.
 
Of course my scale is very simple. To clarify a few details on how I scored:

Popular: How many people do or watch the sport?
Spectator-friendly: Is it easy to follow the action on screen?


With that system, I considered Karate to be neither popular nor spectator-friendly. You can debate popularity, but I based this on points Karate as a competition sport, not Karate in general. Regarding spectator-friendliness, I witnessed friends and family of competitors at such Karate tournaments. Even they don't pay attention for more than a few minutes, because they have no idea what's going on.

That makes more sense. Karate in general IS quite popular, BUT competition, point based karate is pretty damned horrendous if you ask me. I agree with spacetime that WTF TKD is unwatchable. But I think point sparring karate is even worse. Absolutely cringe worthy.
 
The general problem with martial arts as competition sports are the complicated, non-intuitive rules and scoring systems, which were designed to force the athletes to use more spectacular techniques.

This is done in an attempt to attract a casual audience, but it actually ends up confusing and thus repelling them.
 
I honestly believe that the only other Oriental martial art that has a chance of maybe one day becoming an Olympic sport is Kudo. It is my personal and most humble opinion that Kudo has WTF TKD, point karate, judo, boxing, wrestling and wushu beat by miles in the spectator friendly AND rules and scoring departments. And if not Kudo proper, then a similar sport that adopts kudo rules and it's safety gear.
 
Seriously?

http://www.ku-do.com/eng/kudo/rule/rulebook.html

white.jpg
 
I honestly believe that the only other Oriental martial art that has a chance of maybe one day becoming an Olympic sport is Kudo. It is my personal and most humble opinion that Kudo has WTF TKD, point karate, judo, boxing, wrestling and wushu beat by miles in the spectator friendly AND rules and scoring departments. And if not Kudo proper, then a similar sport that adopts kudo rules and it's safety gear.

Maybe. The helmets and gloves sure makes them more visually acceptable to the non-combat fan than basic bareknuckle knockdown karate. They would have to remove strikes to the groin, though -and maybe headbuts.
But they are in the world games (which is an associate event to the olympics) since last year. It will be interesting to see how they progress.
 

Yes.

Maybe. The helmets and gloves sure makes them more visually acceptable to the non-combat fan than basic bareknuckle knockdown karate. They would have to remove strikes to the groin, though -and maybe headbuts.
But they are in the world games (which is an associate event to the olympics) since last year. It will be interesting to see how they progress.

This^^^

Kudo gives you more action packed excitement than TKD and boxing without the same brutality that you get with muay Thai fights (which is one reason why muay Thai has no chance of ever becoming an Olympic sport if they ever wanted to, which they don't of course).
 
Not sure why it's labelled no contact though. The correct terminology is light contact. There is plenty of contact in those too, including nose bleeds, it's just that they don't try and KO each other.
 
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