General MMA discussion and future lines - July 2016

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Has everyone read the new judging criteria possibly coming in from 1 Jan 2017? I am not a fan of damage being the deciding factor in a close round. Some people swell/cut a lot easier than others.

If this comes in though and as we have seen lately, the days of lnp for 4 mins winning a round will be long gone if the other person can mount some meaningful offence in that intervening one minute period. Us as bettors are definitely going to have to adjust. For example, if I was going to be betting Elkins this weekend, under the new criteria I would definitely swerve an Elkins bet.

Discuss...
 
Sham5916910 said:
Has everyone read the new judging criteria possibly coming in from 1 Jan 2017? I am not a fan of damage being the deciding factor in a close round. Some people swell/cut a lot easier than others.

If this comes in though and as we have seen lately, the days of lnp for 4 mins winning a round will be long gone if the other person can mount some meaningful offence in that intervening one minute period. Us as bettors are definitely going to have to adjust. For example, if I was going to be betting Elkins this weekend, under the new criteria I would definitely swerve an Elkins bet.

Discuss...
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If by damage they look at swelling/cuts/bruising etc then i'd say it's fucking retarded. Sooo much of that is decided by genetics. I get bruised over my entire body from just doing grappling lol.
 
The MM Analyst said:
I'm not sold on Cerrone against solid fighters at all at WW. Cote accepts his opponents distance and doesn't really favor any position in the cage, while Story will be pressuring the whole fight and looking to back Cerrone up. I had a big lean on Story against Saffeidine and I think Tarec was a more dangerous fight for him than Cerrone. Cerrone doesn't have the jab or boxing ability to keep his opponent off him if they try to come forward, and his distance control isn't very good. He doesn't have anything to prevent you from crowding him except for his switch knees, which I don't think will be enough. He's improved his offensive wrestling, but I still think Story will be able to hit a few takedowns and rough him up against the cage.
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Cerrone is so much better than Saffedine. I know you are also talking stylistically, but at some point you just have to look at overall skills and realize one guy is on another level.

Cerrone's switch knees are a huge weapon, as he throws them accurately and repeatedly when guys try to crowd him. It's what Jim Miller tried to do. It's what Miles Jury tried (for a little while anyway). It's what Eddie Alvarez tried to do (and to be fair had some success in rd 1 but then got taken apart in rds 2 and 3).

Cerrone's muy thai is very good and again he's only ever lost to elite guys in the past few years despite being the most active fighter on the roster. If Story tries to take Cerrone down he may be able to, but then what? That's an extremely dangerous game to play with Cowboy. His MMA guard isn't just good, it's elite. Among the best in the sport. He's durable, technical, and aggressive. He understands how to set up subs (he doesn't sub hunt when they aren't there). He can strike effectively off his back. I will flat out say it: Story taking Cerrone down and being in Cerrone's guard is advantage Cerrone. That's pretty rare given MMA rules, but in this case I think it's true. Story is a solid top position guy but nothing special with what he can do once there. While Cerrone is special off his back.

And if Story is constantly trying to crowd Cerrone there's a chance Cowboy uses his improved offensive wrestling and puts Story on his back. Not saying that WILL happen (Story is obviously a very good wrestler) but it could. And if it does, the fight is very likely over. I don't know if Story can survive with Cerrone on top of him.

I'm not saying there's no way Story can win. Nothing is a given in MMA and he's a good fighter. There's a path to victory but it's EXTREMELY narrow imo. Crowding Cerrone for 3 rounds and making it a dirty boxing type fight is basically his one shot imo. If he takes Cerrone down I think he gets subbed or swept and finished. If he stays on the outside he gets outstruck and possibly head kicked and finished. It's just not easy to clinch and dirty box a top level fighter for 15 minutes straight. I don't think Story will be able to do it.
 
Sham5916910 said:
Has everyone read the new judging criteria possibly coming in from 1 Jan 2017? I am not a fan of damage being the deciding factor in a close round. Some people swell/cut a lot easier than others.

If this comes in though and as we have seen lately, the days of lnp for 4 mins winning a round will be long gone if the other person can mount some meaningful offence in that intervening one minute period. Us as bettors are definitely going to have to adjust. For example, if I was going to be betting Elkins this weekend, under the new criteria I would definitely swerve an Elkins bet.

Discuss...
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Damage is not necessarily surface damage. It's pretty obvious when a guy is getting hurt even if he doesn't cut or swell.
 
Agent Mulder said:
Same here. Had to take Story at +195 considering that I still think pressure fighters are Cerrones weakness and Story is really really good at getting inside and doing damage both in the clinch and on the ground.
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In the last 6 years, Cerrone is 19-4. Losses to RDAx2, Nate, and Pettis. If you want to look at the guy Cerrone has fought that probably most closely mimics Story's style, go watch the Cerrone/Dunham fight. I realize Evan and Story aren't exactly the same fighter by any means, but Dunham is a pressure fighter and immediately came out with that gameplan.

I think it's a mistake to think that Cerrone doesn't know how to deal with pressure fighters. It's exactly what Dunham is, and Cowboy did what he usually does.
 
Agent Mulder said:
If by damage they look at swelling/cuts/bruising etc then i'd say it's fucking retarded. Sooo much of that is decided by genetics. I get bruised over my entire body from just doing grappling lol.
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Yeah it will.

Damage includes visible evidence such as swellings and lacerations.
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mkess101 said:
In the last 6 years, Cerrone is 19-4. Losses to RDAx2, Nate, and Pettis. If you want to look at the guy Cerrone has fought that probably most closely mimics Story's style, go watch the Cerrone/Dunham fight. I realize Evan and Story aren't exactly the same fighter by any means, but Dunham is a pressure fighter and immediately came out with that gameplan.

I think it's a mistake to think that Cerrone doesn't know how to deal with pressure fighters. It's exactly what Dunham is, and Cowboy did what he usually does.
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I hold Story waaay higher than 2013 Dunham and I dont think their styles are that similar except that both guys puts pressure. I do absolutely favor Cowboy to win btw.
 
The problem with MMA judging isn't the scoring criteria, it's the judges themselves failing at applying the current criteria well, which is for the most part simple binary scoring. These looser 10-8 and 10-7 rules are going to give the judges even more subjectivity, which will lead to worse decisions overall. We are already scratching our heads at some of the 10-8 rounds being doled out lately.

From a gambler's perspective this worries me because scoring is going to be even more chaotic than it already is.
 
waiguoren said:
Damage is not necessarily surface damage. It's pretty obvious when a guy is getting hurt even if he doesn't cut or swell.
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Damage includes visible evidence such as swellings and lacerations.

Above is direct quote from part of damage criteria.
 
Agent Mulder said:
If by damage they look at swelling/cuts/bruising etc then i'd say it's fucking retarded. Sooo much of that is decided by genetics. I get bruised over my entire body from just doing grappling lol.
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I'm like you my face marks up so easy. Absolutely ridiculous to judge based on facial damage.
 
Sham5916910 said:
Damage includes visible evidence such as swellings and lacerations.

Above is direct quote from part of damage criteria.
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Is that the entire damage criterion, or only part of it?
 
waiguoren said:
Is that the entire damage criterion, or only part of it?
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Damage -€” A judge shall assess if a fighter damages their opponent significantly in the round, even though they may not have dominated the action. Damage includes visible evidence such as swellings and lacerations. Damage shall also be assessed when a fighter's actions, using striking and/or grappling, lead to a diminishing of their opponents' energy, confidence, abilities and spirit. All of these come as a direct result of damage. When a fighter is damaged with strikes, by lack of control and/or ability, this can create defining moments in the round and shall be assessed with great value.
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Just part of it.
 
waiguoren said:
So I think this is a positive development. Lay and pray is not fighting.
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I agree with that part of it. It think they've already been moving away from rewarding LnP, and if this goes through it sounds like it will move even further away.

In my opinion the whole point of achieving dominant positions is because it gives a fighter leverage to land offence. If a fighter doesn't score any offense from a dominant position then was the position really that dominant?
 
Claims to care about fighter health and safety. . .

Introduces new rule encouraging swellings and lacerations.

wtf?

This encourages fighters to cause as much visible damage as possible, as opposed to trying to look for a finish like a ko or a sub. Why look for a finish when you can just cut your opponent up with elbows and knees and score big points? Elbows and knees will be the new "LnP".

If I were someone like Condit I would just lay on my back and invite someone like GSP to take me down just so I could cut him up with elbows.

So what happens when a guy like Matt Mitrione has large visible damage to his eye, how much of that damage was attributed from an eyepoke or legal strikes?
 
crewman said:
Claims to care about fighter health and safety. . .

Introduces new rule encouraging swellings and lacerations.

wtf?

This encourages fighters to cause as much visible damage as possible, as opposed to trying to look for a finish like a ko or a sub. Why look for a finish when you can just cut your opponent up with elbows and knees and score big points? Elbows and knees will be the new "LnP".

If I were someone like Condit I would just lay on my back and invite someone like GSP to take me down just so I could cut him up with elbows.

So what happens when a guy like Matt Mitrione has large visible damage to his eye, how much of that damage was attributed from an eyepoke or legal strikes?
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Are you saying that fighters will now play it safe by causing more damage to their opponents? If anything it just discourages LnP whilst rewarding fighters that are looking for the finish and causing damage. Although I don't agree with looking at facial damage since some people bruise much easier than others.
 
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Black guys propably where svelling and bruising a bit better then a pale white guy
 
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