UFC 231 Holloway vs Ortega

How do you guys see Ortega beating Max?

Unless he catches some mad sub in a clinch I just don't see it.

Ortega isn't going to be able to take Max down... he's not going to outstrike him, he's not going to wrestlefuck him.

I'm hoping for a late Max finish, although I don't see how Ortega absorbs as much as Aldo.

Max TKO at the end of RD2
 
thewiggo said:
How do you guys see Ortega beating Max?

Unless he catches some mad sub in a clinch I just don't see it.

Ortega isn't going to be able to take Max down... he's not going to outstrike him, he's not going to wrestlefuck him.

I'm hoping for a late Max finish, although I don't see how Ortega absorbs as much as Aldo.

Max TKO at the end of RD2
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I think he can KO him aswell. If it's true that Max got knocked out in sparring before UFC 226 his legendary chin might be fading, after all the damage he's taken in his fights and probably in sparring too, that has to happen sooner or later. I think that whats happened, it sounds like the most logical explanation, you dont just start showing "concussion like symptoms" and get depressed for months for no reason
 
I know that I bet Shev, but gotta admit the truth - she is not finishing Joanna (unless its a clean KO). Even if she rocks her, I fully expect her to immediately grab her and take her down or something like that. The only girls she finished in her career are debuting girls or with a couple of fights and simply very very bad fighters (fighters is a strong word here). She was put with girls with 0-0 or 1-0, but she was trained in standing martial arts and on the ground for awful long time, much longer than the soccer moms she was put up against in her regional fights.

I know she finished Pena, but Pena is very opened to being sumbitted, she is all offence, does not think for a second for defence and I don't even think she new Shevchenko is that good on the ground, even Nunes was shocked - she was in the audience, and she fought Shevchenko once already, so even she apparently didn't do her due diligence (for the 1st fight).

I can't predict the way this fight will end for sure. I know JJ is very good grappler but the only way Shevchenko wins ITD here is by sub. She is just going to put 100% effort in the ground work, won't do as much standing up. Will be dangerous in spots with her striking, not enough to finish the fight there, tho.

Writing this I have my second thoughts for Shevchenko bet (parlay leg), but I already put the money on it, so whatever. But even with this doubts, I can't get out my mind her making a bloody mess out of that poor girl. Think she is going to be much more brutal @ 125 and her narrowly losing the 135 title will give her motivation to not let the judges get involved here
VillainousDiligentDunlin-size_restricted.gif
 
raketmannen said:
Has Shev beat anyone up with GnP except that bum Cachoeira in the UFC? And have JJ ever got dominated on the ground? Gadelha and Andrade are as good as Shev at controlling and inflicting damage on the ground if not better. They are way better wrestlers too, Shev only got trips and throws from the clinch
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Gadelha and Andrade probably have better top control (Shevchenko doesn't go for hip or wrist control at all and allows opponents to get up), but their ground-and-pound is nowhere near as threatening.

Anywho, Shevchenko's grappling and ground game has continued to improve, so while very unlikely, there is a small chance she takes JJ down and actually keeps her there in the late rounds.

Speaking of which, I placed a modest best (a mere 2 units or so) on Shevchenko at -305.
 
raketmannen said:
I think he can KO him aswell. If it's true that Max got knocked out in sparring before UFC 226 his legendary chin might be fading, after all the damage he's taken in his fights and probably in sparring too, that has to happen sooner or later. I think that whats happened, it sounds like the most logical explanation, you dont just start showing "concussion like symptoms" and get depressed for months for no reason
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Max hasn't been knocked out in his career. Betting against him because of a rumour purporting he got knocked out in training and/or because he has been "depressed" is in one word naive.
People betting Ortega in this forum are forgetting he was losing vs Moicano until the hail mary guillotine.
Moicano isn't near the volume/pressure fighter Max is and was still outclassing Ortega.

I don't mean to appear cynical, but I really do feel people are underestimating Max and overestimating Ortega.
There are a number of guys @ featherweight who would beat Ortega, but nowhere near as many who would beat Max.


Another hype train loses momentum imo.
 
Oblivian said:
I'm going be on Max and JJ. No idea on the rest so far.
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Same. Bet 6 u on Holloway at -105, can't believe he's now +110. I haven't gone over 6u in a while but will do if his odds continue to improve.
Got .75 u on Joanna at +285
Really surprised at the odds on both of these fights
 
Who tf is still betting Ortega at -120 and Chook at -200, yikes..
 
Ortega has fallen in love with the rear uppercut, you best believe the Blessed one will be countering that Saturday night. Probably been drilling that counter for 6 months.
 
ill800 said:
IF she manages to get jj down, jj will just get back up
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I'm not so certain she will get right back up with shev's takedowns. When Andrade took her down she was able to almost everytime, but watch how Andrade does her takedowns. She gets in on the single and lifts and she comes down with no control. As soon as JJ hits the mat it turns into a scramble and JJ wins. Shevs clinch trips set her up nice in side control. Much more difficult for JJ to get up. Not saying she won't be able to, but it will be much harder.
 
Holloway has morphed into chuck liddell


Shevchenko has morphed into Demian Maia
 
thewiggo said:
Max hasn't been knocked out in his career. Betting against him because of a rumour purporting he got knocked out in training and/or because he has been "depressed" is in one word naive.
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I'm not only believing it because Bisping said it. I believe it because how Max looked that week, everyone reported he withdrew because of concussion like symptoms and we all saw them. Their refusal to say what really happened, that he was affected by it for over a month, and them making bullshit hints that he might have got poisoned when he got to Vegas etc. All of this points to that he got a concussion before, and how do you get concussed?
Max himself said he got very depressed AFTER 226, so why the quotation marks?
Stop simplifying what I'm saying and only focus on the least important things. And I said he has a legendary chin and has never got knocked out or even rocked in a fight. But no one has a legendary chin forever, especially when his fighting style is based on being able to take take his opponents best shots and walk through them. He's 26 years old but got a lot of fucking wear and tear on him.
Why don't you tell me what you think was the cause instead of rudely dismissing everything and ignoring the more significant "evidence" that it might be true?

edit. and oh didn't even read your full post. So you're another one who denies the fact that the Moicano fight was 19-19? The scorecards have been posted multiple times, maybe do some research before reapeating shit that has been proven wrong
 
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Soccer Steve said:
A rumour from a professional troll/shit-talker, no less.
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I don’t understand how people think Holloway looks fine. He's looked noticeably slow & off in interviews, the press conference & open workouts. I don’t know if it was a concussion or what happened, but Max doesn’t seem well, even months later (he admitted in an interview that the symptoms never fully went away). I guess Saturday is going to answer a lot of questions in regards to how he will perform. He doesn’t seem fully well though.
 
LiquidNuke said:
You can get Rakic ITD at -130. I know his first two UFC appearances have been decisions, but both those opponents took severe beatings, especially Lidet. Rakic at 26 is likely an improving fighter. He still is two decisions in a row or not a massively built 6'5 LHW that looks like he'd fit right in at heavy, with a 80% stoppage ratio... Thoughts?

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I'm on Rakic ITD. Devin has been hurt in recent fights, is going to be getting leg kicked hard and Rakic is an underrated grappler. He can negate Devin and really work him on the feet. I really question Devins heart and I think he will fold. Rakic ITD is a great bet
 
ViolenceFight said:
I don’t understand how people think Holloway looks fine. He's looked noticeably slow & off in interviews, the press conference & open workouts. I don’t know if it was a concussion or what happened, but Max doesn’t seem well, even months later (he admitted in an interview that the symptoms never fully went away). I guess Saturday is going to answer a lot of questions in regards to how he will perform. He doesn’t seem fully well though.
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Max has never been the most articulate guy. Seems fine now. Obviously wasn't the case before their first fight. We are legit getting + odds on the GOAT FW because he isn't well spoken LOL
 
Stunna77 said:
Max has never been the most articulate guy. Seems fine now. Obviously wasn't the case before their first fight. We are legit getting + odds on the GOAT FW because he isn't well spoken LOL
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He looks better than before, but definitely doesn’t look fine to me. If he’s just a little sluggish or slower because of his mystery illness, then most likely Ortega is taking the belt. Good luck if you’re gonna roll the dice on it. I’m heavy on Ortega & feeling really confident about it.
 
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