Is the MT long guard underutilized in MMA?

[GoatArtemLobov]

It's something that is pretty common in MT (Buakaw uses this a lot) but we don't get to see that very often in MMA, though it's a guard that relies less on having big gloves on than your traditional western boxing guard.
What do you think?

 

[KID Yamamoto]

DC uses a variation of it in the form of the mummy guard. What you are more likely to see is the klitschko lead hand long guard for taller fighters.

 

[Fesaine]

No, the majority of them just don't use it consistently. The only one who really use it constantly are izzy and jones.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

DC uses a variation of it in the form of the mummy guard. What you are more likely to see is the klitschko lead hand long guard for taller fighters.

Yes the guard Klitschko uses is actually the typical European guard, it works well for MMA.
I feel like the MT long guard leaves you open for hooks and especially uppercuts on the opposite side, but on the other hand the fact you push the shoulder of the arm your opponent punches with does a good job of taking a lot of steam out of the punch.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

No, the majority of them just don't use it consistently. The only one who really use it constantly are izzy and jones.

Izzy and Jones do use a "long guard" but they don't block as Zahabi shows it in this clip.
Blocking your opponent's shoulder with your extended arm when he is throwing while "cross blocking" your entire face isn't a thing I've ever seen in MMA. There is an inherent weakness with this guard though, namely the fact that it leaves you open on the opposite side.

 

[jojoRed]

No, the majority of them just don't use it consistently. The only one who really use it constantly are izzy and jones.

Isnt it because it can be manipulated? You can fake shots and come to the body or head with kicks especially with the lead arm outstretched and the backhand cross guarding your face? Youre blind for a little bit.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

It works. It's part of hand fighting/posting/framing. The style Firas is using works best if you have similar or longer reach than your opponent, it will not work if you have shorter reach. Also muay does use a high guard, they just pull their head back more for head kicks instead of just blocking with the high guard.

This technique does work better with gloves on and not mma style gloves. You can still post with your hand/palm but requires you to adjust the techniques.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

Izzy and Jones do use a "long guard" but they don't block as Zahabi shows it in this clip.
Blocking your opponent's shoulder with your extended arm when he is throwing while "cross blocking" your entire face isn't a thing I've ever seen in MMA. There is an inherent weakness with this guard though, namely the fact that it leaves you open on the opposite side.

It shouldn't be used for just blocking purposes. Should be used to also attack after the block.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

Isnt it because it can be manipulated? You can fake shots and come to the body or head with kicks especially with the lead arm outstretched and the backhand cross guarding your face? Youre blind for a little bit.

It depends on how good the fighter is at feints/fakes/hand-fighting.

 

[Rovert]

 

[Fesaine]

Isnt it because it can be manipulated? You can fake shots and come to the body or head with kicks especially with the lead arm outstretched and the backhand cross guarding your face? Youre blind for a little bit.

It can. The big problem with these long guard is that it leaves your body open and it doesn't you give you the opportunity to counter your opponents. It basically put you on full defensive mode.

 

[jojoRed]

It depends on how good the fighter is at feints/fakes/hand-fighting.

I would think in the UFC, against any decent fighter with good striking IQ, would poke holes with this guard. Someone like Izzy would feast on this kind of defence from his opponents [if the opponent had the reach to employ it].

Thats why I think Izzy/Jones style of just long arming and shifting backwards with an angle change is pretty much the best guard in MMA. You need to have amazing reach, but that coupled with good footwork and speed is the best 'guard' in MMA imo.

It can, the big problem with these long guard is that it leaves your body open and doesn't you give you the opportunity to counter your opponents.

Yup thats what I was saying. Mightve been worded a bit wrong.

I think the Jones/Izzy version is pretty much the ideal version of this guard but not all fighters have the physical capabilities like they do.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

It shouldn't be used for just blocking purposes. Should be used to also attack after the block.

Agree, though it would be something you would have to rep a lot, as it's not an intuitive thing.
I've almost never sparred with small gloves, but, usually being the taller reachier guy, the few times I did spar with 4oz gloves it didn't make that much of a difference, small gloves are more of a concern for small guys who like to use more like a Mexican guard I believe.
Philly Shell could maybe be a great option for MMA, because not only do you not rely on big gloves, but you also have your front hand already down to stop takedowns. Leg kicks would be a concern though...

 

[FIghtxIQ]

Agree, though it would be something you would have to rep a lot, as it's not an intuitive thing.
I've almost never sparred with small gloves, but, usually being the taller reachier guy, the few times I did spar it didn't make that much, small gloves are more of a concern for small guys who like to use more like a Mexican guard I believe.
Philly Shell could maybe be a great option for MMA, because not only do you not rely on big gloves, but you also have your front hand already down to stop takedowns. Leg kicks would be a concern though...

Yes you would have to practice blocking first then attack right after and build your techniques from there. Using it only for blocking will leave you open.

MMA gloves have openings that wouldn't be open with the bigger gloves. It's fixable but also requires an adjustment to the techniques. Petr Yan uses a high guard well in mma.

Yes Philly shell works in mma. It's just not a common technique/style even in boxing.

Leg kicks are always an issue anytime you are in range for a kick. It's a matter of timing and reading the strikes.

 

[Prologue]

DC with that "long guard" master class.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

DC with that "long guard" master class.

Eyepoking is MMA's most efficient technique lol, would definitely give it a go in a street fight.

 

[jojoRed]

Yes Philly shell works in mma. It's just not a common technique/style even in boxing.

Poirier uses it, but its still very susceptible to kicks [especially leg kicks], and good luck employing this against a pressure wrestler. He doesnt use it as often against people with wrestling pedigrees.

Every guard has its uses, but most of these guards from other striking disciplines are nullified in MMA. The more neutral guard with active hands, minimal head movement and tucked in chin is the one I feel like the average fighter can use to great effect. Its funny how the most basic guard is the 'best' overall guard in MMA when it wouldnt be in other martial arts.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

Poirier uses it, but its still very susceptible to kicks [especially leg kicks], and good luck employing this against a pressure wrestler. He doesnt use it as often against people with wrestling pedigrees.

Every guard has its uses, but most of these guards from other striking disciplines are nullified in MMA. The more neutral guard with active hands, minimal head movement and tucked in chin is the one I feel like the average fighter can use to great effect. Its funny how the most basic guard is the 'best' overall guard in MMA when it wouldnt be in other martial arts.

It's can be adjusted for wrestlers, it's actually easier because your hands are already lower. Floyd uses it all the time to prevent the clinch in boxing. Very easy to frame/post using the Philly shell. Leg kics are fine as well. Just be light on your front foot and check the kicks.

 

[jojoRed]

It's can be adjusted for wrestlers, it's actually easier because your hands are already lower. Floyd uses it all the time to prevent the clinch in boxing. Very easy to frame/post using the Philly shell. Leg kics are fine as well. Just be light on your front foot and check the kicks.

Thats untrue. You give up the single and double since one of the arms is nearer to the face and the other is crossing the body.
Philly is dependant on the upper body moving and the lower body being still. In MMA, the headkicks, the doubles and singles, the body kick and the sweeps are some well known counters to it. Especially against the cage.

There's a reason its basically non existent in MMA.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

Cause wrassler’s be licking chops seeing your elbows that high to not defend TDs. Duck-under city.

At least that “long guard” is really good at grabbing for knees. If you love setting up your clinch knees its a good guard to work. You can parry down punches and gain collar ties right to knees smoothly.

But again, TDs