Primo Carnera would have beaten Ngannou in a standup fight

You link to a page that says:

"1940-45 According to anecdotal accounts, the Nazis test anabolic steroids on prisoners, Gestapos and Hitler himself. Testosterone and its analogs are used by German soldiers to promote aggressiveness and physical strength. Retrospectively, according to his physician, Hitler's mental state toward the end of his life exhibits characteristics that some scientists associate with heavy steroid use: mania, acute paranoid psychoses, overly aggressive and violent behavior, depression and suicidal ideologies.

I linked to a scholarly paper that disproved those anecdotes.

You display what's known as confirmation bias.

"Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.[1] People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias cannot be eliminated entirely, but it can be managed, for example, by education and training in critical thinking skills."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

You have more here: The Spectre of Steroids: Nazi Propaganda, Cold War Anxiety and Patriarchal Paternalism

"Nazi steroids" and "USSR steroids" were the result of Western anxiety. Nazis bad, therefore steroids. US weightlifters began to use synthetic steroids in the mid-1950s and they spread quickly to other strength sports, but it became all about the scary Russians.

The Nazis did supply drugs to their soldiers. Benzedrine. The British soldiers were given amphetamines. Perhaps other drugs as well, but they were all about mental stress. The driver of the Marder mini sub was given Benzedrine, because it was considered extremely stressful for a single individual to stay submerged in the ocean for a long time.


So a drug... known to build the body's muscles wouldnt be used for military uses?...cuz that wouldn't be important... especially in the country that invented such drug

But US weight lifters found it to be....got it...

Also i wasn't even really referencing the army or nazi in my original post...was mostly saying how the Germans invented steroids.... nothing uve said or shown differs from my point that steroids came from germans
 
6’2 200 lbs Joe Louis beat that dudes ass his size means nothing
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uhhhh, Joe Louis was...... kinda good, though.
 
IIRC, Sharkey took a lot of shit for losing that fight. Regardless, Primo was not really considered elite, even in his prime, and even in spite of having been a world champ. The perception was always that he was a slow, plodding, giant, who was dangerous mostly because of his size, but would usually fall short against the cream of the crop. Correct me if I’m on wrong, though.

How he would fare against Francis is another discussion altogether, though. At that point you have to consider intergenerational as well as intersport, factors.

Sharkey was an "up-and-down" fighter who lacked consistency. I dont know if he stepped into the ring in top shape or literally drunk but I do believe it was a legit KO, that it wasnt fixed.

There is a bit of a myth around such perception about Primo. Yeah, he wasnt a very talented pugilist, boxing wasnt natural for him, but he also shut lot of mouths eventually.

At the end of the day, he was tremendous physical specimen (not just size and strenght, but he was also surprisingly flexible and mobile for such a large body with outstanding endurance), who worked his ass off, was very well-coached and fought to his strenghts (jab-clinh), and by his prime had lot of experience in pro fights. So he was never the best but I'd say he got to be an elite HW at some point.

Hard to tell if he would be able to handle Ngannou in a standup fight. Too many factors to consider but yeah, I do think Francis would have trouble getting past Primo's jab and while I dont expect Carnera to control Francis in the clinch as he did to 200lbers back in the day, not the other way around neither.

Primo Carnera was notoriuosly not that good and benefited from fights fixed by his mafia sponsors.

Carnera beat the hell out of other big guys of his era. Boxing training for big guys was pretty awful in those days, and Carnera was probably the best of the bunch. He did have some fundamentals like a decent jab, some footwork and an ability to parry punches. His uppercut was a legit punch.



MMA boxing is actually pretty similar to old school boxing because of the small gloves and limited ability to block punches. A lot of the work was done in the clinches too, just like in MMA.

Carnera doesn't really get the credit he deserves for a guy who was treated as a circus act, never really properly trained, yet he picked up boxing fundamentals pretty well, and did look like a legitimate pugilist in his prime. He fought like 20 times a year which puts modern heavyweights to shame.

I feel like he created a template of success in boxing for the super heavyweights that followed him, before that there was never really a "style" to emulate after, for the big guys, which is why they were often dismissed as freaks/circus acts. His use of the jab, clinching on the inside, using the uppercut to punish smaller guys, among other things that he did, were all adopted by later super heavies to great success.


Godfrey could have been getting screwed over by referees as well. I'm going to have to watch Carnera-Godfrey again. I guess most people had him clearly winning. Godfrey has some impressive accomplishments; Canadian heavyweight champion, IBU champion, Colored heavyweight champion...and Jeff Blackburn as a trainer for at least some of his career.

I dont know how many fixed fights Primo had early in his career or even in his run to the tittle, but fought many top HWs of his time in legit fights. Even if he was favoured by the judges vs top contenders like Godfrey, Loughran or Uzcudun, the fact he gave those guys a contested match proves that he wasnt just a circus freak imo, but a legitimate HW who had some clue about how to take advantage of his freak physique in the ring.
 
uhhhh, Joe Louis was...... kinda good, though.
My point was he’s big but that doesn’t mean anything because someone much smaller beat him up. I know who Joe Louis is. He’s probably my all time favorite boxer
 
My point was he’s big but that doesn’t mean anything because someone much smaller beat him up. I know who Joe Louis is. He’s probably my all time favorite boxer

Yeah well that's probably because you only know Carnera as one of the dudes Joe dispatched, but if you actually know who Joe Louis was that doesnt tell much in the comparison with Francis.

Carnera did also fight and beat big men, about as big if not bigger than Jones, Fedor or Cormier, with superior boxing skill and experience.
 
Yeah well that's probably because you only know Carnera as one of the dudes Joe dispatched, but if you actually know who Joe Louis was that doesnt tell much in the comparison with Francis.

Carnera did also fight and beat big men, about as big if not bigger than Jones, Fedor or Cormier, with superior boxing skill and experience.
And where are the examples of that in the OP? You clearly stated his size/heart/conditioning as reasons he would beat Francis in a stand up fight
 
Sharkey was an "up-and-down" fighter who lacked consistency. I dont know if he stepped into the ring in top shape or literally drunk but I do believe it was a legit KO, that it wasnt fixed.

There is a bit of a myth around such perception about Primo. Yeah, he wasnt a very talented pugilist, boxing wasnt natural for him, but he also shut lot of mouths eventually.

At the end of the day, he was tremendous physical specimen (not just size and strenght, but he was also surprisingly flexible and mobile for such a large body with outstanding endurance), who worked his ass off, was very well-coached and fought to his strenghts (jab-clinh), and by his prime had lot of experience in pro fights. So he was never the best but I'd say he got to be an elite HW at some point.

Hard to tell if he would be able to handle Ngannou in a standup fight. Too many factors to consider but yeah, I do think Francis would have trouble getting past Primo's jab and while I dont expect Carnera to control Francis in the clinch as he did to 200lbers back in the day, not the other way around neither.







I dont know how many fixed fights Primo had early in his career or even in his run to the tittle, but fought many top HWs of his time in legit fights. Even if he was favoured by the judges vs top contenders like Godfrey, Loughran or Uzcudun, the fact he gave those guys a contested match proves that he wasnt just a circus freak imo, but a legitimate HW who had some clue about how to take advantage of his freak physique in the ring.
I think Carnera was a beast, way underrated by people, including contemporary journalists. Joe Louis is just Joe Louis. Apparently Godfrey was dominant over Carnera before hitting him low, though. At least, that's what some reports said. I'm interested in re-watching the bout now.
 
My point was he’s big but that doesn’t mean anything because someone much smaller beat him up. I know who Joe Louis is. He’s probably my all time favorite boxer
if you follow that logic, then size means nothing in any fight because Joe Louis would beat damned near anyone ever.
I dont have a pick in Carnera vs Ngannou, btw, but his size does matter. Its literally the best thing he had going for him, and it would remove one of Ngannou’s biggest advantages over most opponents - HIS size. (actually, at this point id lean towards Ngannou, honestly. too fast and powerful)

But, losing to Joe Louis doesnt mean that any of your attributes are useless - whether its speed, skill, chin, whatever - it just means you lost to Joe Louis, who would find and did find a way to beat just about any type of boxer.
 
if you follow that logic, then size means nothing in any fight because Joe Louis would beat damned near anyone ever.
I dont have a pick in Carnera vs Ngannou, btw, but his size does matter. Its literally the best thing he had going for him, and it would remove one of Ngannou’s biggest advantages over most opponents - HIS size. (actually, at this point id lean towards Ngannou, honestly. too fast and powerful)

But, losing to Joe Louis doesnt mean that any of your attributes are useless - whether its speed, skill, chin, whatever - it just means you lost to Joe Louis, who would find and did find a way to beat just about any type of boxer.

I dont think Joe Louis would beat any boxer ever, but I definitely favour him vs any MMA fighter ever in a boxing ring
 
Who did school Primo in his prime, apart from of course Joe Louis? He gave a war to Max Baer too btw, who wasnt some 6' 200ish lbs
Baer dropped him 12 times. The Uzcudun decision in Italy was high robbery and Uzcudun was 5' 10".

Many of his fights were blatant or suspected fixes.
 
Baer dropped him 12 times. The Uzcudun decision in Italy was high robbery and Uzcudun was 5' 10".

Many of his fights were blatant or suspected fixes.

Took the best punches of one of the best HW punchers at the time, dropped 12 times, and still outboxed Baer for some rounds after. Let's tell the whole story, not just a meme.

Neither of the Uzcudun was a high robbery even if Paulino has a case for the W in both, if only for pushing the fight. Barely managed to get through Carnera's jab/clinch deffensive approach.

Uzcudun was 5'10" but also a handful for any boxer of his time, until Joe Louis emerged.
 
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