Can we all agree Usman is a superior WW to St. Pierre?

I didnt refer to aesthetics, I meant that many of his notable wins are actually very controversial and Shields struggled to impose his game in them.
It's normal when facing high level competition of course, just saying because some times people copy-paste Ws on paper that not always tell the whole story.
Yeah well TC presented a win over Shields as this bland victory compared to guys like Woodley, meanwhile Shields beat Woodley and had a fantastic streak over tons of guys. I’m not upselling his accomplishments at all. Shields was an excellent win at the time and should be viewed as so.
 
Yeah well TC presented a win over Shields as this bland victory compared to guys like Woodley, meanwhile Shields beat Woodley and had a fantastic streak over tons of guys. I’m not upselling his accomplishments at all. Shields was an excellent win at the time and should be viewed as so.

Yeah of course, TS is a moron or trolling
 
Nope, we can't agree with it. Usman has less title defenses, less top 10 wins and is already cherry-picking an easier opponent coming off a loss for his fourth "title defense".
 
10 years from now:
- all he ever beat was a one dimensional wrestler (KOS)
- Gilbert Burns was a failed 155r with no takedowns (BJ Penn)
- Woodley was done and never won a fight again (Matt Hughes)
- Jorge Masvidal doesn't know how to wrestle (Dan Hardy)

You get the idea.
 
If Usman is able to defend it as many times as GSP, then we can have that discussion. Until that happens, it’s too early to tell. A while back people said the same thing about woodley, that he would be able to beat GSP, not so much anymore
 
I’m really interested to see what evidence you have to support usman being a better wrestler. I think the only two categories up for debate are possibly cardio and strength. Giving that edge to usman isn’t ridiculous. But GSP is CLEARLY the better wrestler.
Exactly.

Fun game regarding Usman's 100% takedown defense stat that is often brought up in this discussion:

Guess how many takedowns Usman had to defend thus far from good/elite wrestlers...
:p
 
@LilNicky95
Just gonna use my answer from another thread regarding the subject.
<LikeReally5>
The recency bias is very strong here with quite a few posters, eh?

Usman is an amazing fighter and who knows what he's going to accomplish in the future, but to suggest that Usman is a superior version of GSP is wrong.

"Usman has 100% takedown defense, GSP has been taken down!"
There has literally been only a single takedown attempt (!) from an elite wrestler against Usman, which came from Woodley and has been defended.
GSP on the other hand has dealt with guys like Hughes, Koscheck, Hendricks, competing against some of those either with not much experience (Hughes) or in the twilight of his career (Hendricks).

"Usman is better everywhere"
Where do i start with that one...

Let's look at a few stats (UFC) alright?
... and let's keep in mind, that GSP's stats are like they are after a long career and after having fought elite competition for a long time, but i'll come back to that further below.

Significant strikes landed per minute:
Usman: 4.66
St-Pierre: 3.78
-> advantage Usman

Significant strikes absorbed per minute:
Usman: 2.33
St-Pierre: 1.40 (4th best in welterweight history)
-> advantage GSP


Significant strike differential:

Usman: 2.33 (2nd best in welterweight history)
St-Pierre: 2.38 (best in welterweight history)
-> advantage GSP


Ratio of landed to absorbed significant strikes
Usman: 2.0
St-Pierre: 2.7
-> advantage GSP

Significant strike accuracy
Usman: 54%
St-Pierre: 53%
-> advantage Usman

Significant strike defense
Usman: 58%
St-Pierre: 73% (best in welterweight history and 3rd best of all time across all divisions)
-> advantage GSP

Takedown average per 15 min.
Usman: 3.22
St-Pierre: 4.16
-> advantage GSP

Takedown accuracy
Usman: 47%
St-Pierre: 74% (best in welterweight history, 4th best across all divisions of all time)
-> advantage GSP

Takedown defense
Usman: 100%
St-Pierre: 85.2%
-> advantage Usman

Submissions attempted per 15 min.
Usman: 0.1
St-Pierre: 1.1
-> advantage GSP

Total fight time (welterweight)
Usman: 3:38:51
St-Pierre: 5:28:12

Submission wins / in brackets: submission wins in the UFC:
Usman: 1 (0)
St-Pierre: 6 (3)
-> advantage GSP

Totals:
Georges St-Pierre: 8
Kamaru Usman: 3

Things to keep in mind:
GSP has these stats after 5 1/2 hours of fight time inside the UFC, while having fought guys like Hendricks, Bisping (at 185) Hughes x2, Shields, Fitch, Koscheck x2, Penn x2.
Meanwhile, Usman has these stats after around 3 1/2 hours inside the UFC, having faced the likes of Covington, Woodley and Burns (i don't list Masvidal here, because i didn't include Condit in GSP's list, despite being a better fighter than Masvidal).
Out of these three fighters, there has been 0 takedown attempts from Covington, 1 from Woodley and 3 from Gilbert Burns.


Verdict:
While Kamaru Usman has a higher takedown defense percentage, more output and a marginally (1%) higher significant striking accuracy, St-Pierre trumps him in all 8 other stats, especially in terms of striking defense, where St-Pierre is amongst the most prolific fighters in UFC history.
This is even more impressive considering that:
a) St-Pierre's stats are those of a finished career, whereas Kamaru Usman only fairly recently has started to fight elite opposition and
b) St-Pierre has faced top competition (fighting champion Matt Hughes) after 7 pro fights, whereas Kamaru Usman didn't face a champion until having had twice the amount of pro fights under his belt.
Therefore, Georges St-Pierre remains the gold standard and the best welterweight of all time.


If a prime St-Pierre was to face a prime Usman, then i see St-Pierre winning the fight due to the wrestling of each other cancelling out (though i could definitely see St-Pierre landing reactive takedowns on Usman) and by being the better striker; exploiting Usman's porous striking defense.
 
Exactly.

Fun game regarding Usman's 100% takedown defense stat that is often brought up in this discussion:

Guess how many takedowns Usman had to defend thus far from good/elite wrestlers...
:p
Yeah..I mean I’m not even one of the guys on here that shits on usman. I think at some point he’ll be highly regarded in the all time discussion.

But GSP’s wrestling was the strongest in a division chalked full of ground guys.

Usmans greatest wrestling challenges have all been stand up battles. And we haven’t really seen him “wrestle” a wrestler.

Meanwhile GSP was judo throwing, tripping, and double legging guys like Matt hughes
 
I mean while Georges was decisioning Dan Hardy and Jake Shields back in his prime, today we have Usman finishing Colby, Burns and breaking Woodley(when Tyron was thought to be unbeatable).

Usman is a better wrestler with a better chin and has way more power than Georges. I don’t see Suburb-Jorge being able to do anything different in the
upcoming/unnecessary rematch.

You can not convince me that there is one person out there who legitimately does not think Usman would absolutely mop the floor with St. Pierre.

Usman is just a better, badder version.
LIAR LIAR LIAR FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD! you thought you could slander ???? LISTEN! GSP IS A BETTER STRIKER, MORE EXPLOSIVE, BETTER GRAPPLER AND WRESTLER! HUS RESUME IS SUPERIOR!!!!!modern WW ARE WEAK! GSP HAS MORE DEFENCES, DOUBLE CHAMP, BETTER RESUME!!! USMMAN IS SLOW AND STIFF WITH NO DEFENCE!!!! DROPPED BY DILBERT AND ROCKED BY COLBY???? PATHETIC! KEEP IT SLICK PLAYBOI<Moves> NEVER DISS THE GOAT, KING AND LORD SIR GSP! GSP BEAT MORE WRESTLERS WITH HIS WRESTLING!!!!! USMAN IS GREAT BUT THE GOAT IS GREATER!!!
 
Yeah..I mean I’m not even one of the guys on here that shits on usman. I think at some point he’ll be highly regarded in the all time discussion.

But GSP’s wrestling was the strongest in a division chalked full of ground guys.

Usmans greatest wrestling challenges have all been stand up battles. And we haven’t really seen him “wrestle” a wrestler.

Meanwhile GSP was judo throwing, tripping, and double legging guys like Matt hughes
100% agree.
I rate Usman highly too.

But like you say, GSP was in a division full of wrestlers.

By the way, the answer to the fun question is 1 takedown attempt (from Tyron Woodley).
Aside from that, he defended 3 takedown attempts from Burns and 15 from Maia, but i wouldn't call them wrestlers (though they're great all around grapplers).

What's also never taken into consideration is that GSP faced Hughes after 7 pro fights, whereas in Usman's case, the first absolute elite fighter he faced was Woodley - while having 15 pro fights of experience under his belt.
 
usman isn't even equal to gsp yet, needless to say ahead.

Stupid comments like this comparing usman to gsp is just idiotic nonsense.

when usman matches gsp's title defenses then fans and him can compare himself.....if he doesn't even match gsp's title defenses and do it all in a row like he did, then usman has no bragging rights and fans shouldn't even be making remarks about him being the better ww.

you want to nit pick at each individual fight that's fine.....but it comes down to accomplishments. usman has yet matched the most title defenses, if he does that or passes gsp then he's better. Until then usman has a long ways to go.
 
100% agree.
I rate Usman highly too.

But like you say, GSP was in a division full of wrestlers.

By the way, the answer to the fun question is 1 takedown attempt (from Tyron Woodley).
Aside from that, he defended 3 takedown attempts from Burns and 15 from Maia, but i wouldn't call them wrestlers (though they're great all around grapplers).

What's also never taken into consideration is that GSP faced Hughes after 7 pro fights, whereas in Usman's case, the first absolute elite fighter he faced was Woodley - while having 15 pro fights of experience under his belt.
That last bit works both ways. A longer road to titles means that the guys who are elite will have less time to earn accolades and major accomplishments, but it also means they get more time to develop their skills.
 
I don’t like disrespecting legends and I think gsp is a near perfect fighter but his fights showed off how superior he was in winning, not how dominant he was with power.

he made everyone look bad but at the same time usman really does look stronger and faster and is fighting better competition
 
The levels of stupidity on this forum never ceases to amaze me
 
They are both very equally skilled. The key separating factor is CHIN and TOUGHNESS, which Usman is superior in.

prime for prime, usman would win a UD or tko georges after he breaks him mentally.
 
I can definitely agree that he looks like a slightly better version of GSP. In terms of legacy, he is still quite a distance away from George, but I can see him narrowing that gap by 2022.
 
Last edited:
While I dont necessarily disagree with you, but you lumping in Jake Shields with Dan Hardy makes me not take you seriously.
 
Back
Top