How beautiful was Paul Craig's armbar (Karel Pravec related)

[EndlessCritic]

Say goodbye to the overhook, as Paul Craig demonstrates the effectiveness of a new type of no-gi control -- trapping your opponent's hand in your armpit with double foot on hips. (Karel Pravec calls this split guard.)

As seen in the gif, Paul Craig traps Hill's right hand in his armpit, and as Hill tries to get away, Craig armbars the other arm. I really don't think I've ever seen someone hit an armbar like this in MMA before.

 

[plataoplombo]

Good eye, didn't notice that. Gonna give it a try.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Good eye, didn't notice that. Gonna give it a try.

A must watch video on the split guard:

 

[EndlessCritic]

Another guy who really likes this hand in armpit position is one of my favorite mma grapplers, Yuki Motoya:

Here he is using it to ultimately teepee triangle scoggins


In this clip he uses it to put patrick mix in an omoplata, though motoya ends up getting guillotined in the exchange

 

[maximus__]

Say goodbye to the overhook, as Paul Craig demonstrates the effectiveness of a new type of no-gi control -- trapping your opponent's hand in your armpit with double foot on hips. (Karel Pravec calls this split guard.)

As seen in the gif, Paul Craig traps Hill's right hand in his armpit, and as Hill tries to get away, Craig armbars the other arm. I really don't think I've ever seen someone hit an armbar like this in MMA before.

It's a beautiful armbar but a lot of that is just Hills complete lack of armbar defence. He literally straightened up perfectly, left both his arms behind and thought the only arm in danger was the one with the over hook. Great armbar but lets not pretend it would work on a decent grappler so easily. I definitely like how he didn't just sit there with a closed guard and think more people should use similar but as a way to get up instead.

 

[rmongler]

So the new control is the old control.

 

[EndlessCritic]

It's a beautiful armbar but a lot of that is just Hills complete lack of armbar defence. He literally straightened up perfectly, left both his arms behind and thought the only arm in danger was the one with the over hook. Great armbar but lets not pretend it would work on a decent grappler so easily. I definitely like how he didn't just sit there with a closed guard and think more people should use similar but as a way to get up instead.

Disagree with this entire take. Please enlighten us all with what the "proper" defence is to a double feet on hip hand in armpit position. It's a devastating control position with triangle/omoplata/armbar threats.

 

[EndlessCritic]

So the new control is the old control.

Further explanation as to who was using this?

 

[maximus__]

Disagree with this entire take. Please enlighten us all with what the "proper" defence is to a double feet on hip hand in armpit position. It's a devastating control position with triangle/omoplata/armbar threats.

Clear the legs off the hips and go forward before getting your arms backs to build to the stand up?
Basically anything that involves you not posting straight up with your hands still trapped. Don't get me wrong I know the other subs are there but lets address the immediate problem of both arms being left straight out to be taken.
Guard is just upside down mount, we don't extend our arms when someone is on top of us. Why would you do it from guard?

It was a great sub and all credit to Paul Craig I love watching him fight. I won money on him and always bet on him. Hill did what a lot of MMA fighters do and just tried to power up without keeping his limbs safe.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Clear the legs off the hips and go forward before getting your arms backs to build to the stand up?
Basically anything that involves you not posting straight up with your hands still trapped. Don't get me wrong I know the other subs are there but lets address the immediate problem of both arms being left straight out to be taken.
Guard is just upside down mount, we don't extend our arms when someone is on top of us. Why would you do it from guard?

It was a great sub and all credit to Paul Craig I love watching him fight. I won money on him and always bet on him. Hill did what a lot of MMA fighters do and just tried to power up without keeping his limbs safe.

There is so much to respond to.

The immediate threat is to the trapped arm. Anything Jamahal could have done to "clear the legs" would have put that arm at risk.

I have no idea what on earth "guard is just upside down mount" means, when we're not discussing closed guard -- we're discussing double feet on hips. There are plenty of guys who have used stiff arm type escapes to escape the mount in MMA. There are plenty of high level passers who advocate using straightened arms inside your opponent's armpits as a strong passing position from closed guard.

 

[maximus__]

There is so much to respond to.

The immediate threat is to the trapped arm. Anything Jamahal could have done to "clear the legs" would have put that arm at risk.

I have no idea what on earth "guard is just upside down mount" means, when we're not discussing closed guard -- we're discussing double feet on hips. There are plenty of guys who have used stiff arm type escapes to escape the mount in MMA. There are plenty of high level passers who advocate using straightened arms inside your opponent's armpits as a strong passing position from closed guard.

Then we disagree and that's fine. You just showed the Rizen video above which is an example of what could have been done. Mix gets his hand back, goes to clear the leg and his opponent transitions to another position and is able to escape a deep armbar attempt.

Hill literally lets Paul have 4 points of contact whilst controlling his two arms and then stands straight up with them pretty much already extended. He needed to try and get an arm back or a foot off his hip at minimum before he did that. He would have been better sitting in guard until he could address one of those issues.

I used the example of mount just being guard to try and simplify the comparison I was using about extended limbs when it isn't safe to do so.

I agree on using the hands in armpits as a way to break the closed guard, but the feet on the hips is a really good way to counter this especially with gi grips. I used it myself as a lowly recreational grappler these days. That armbar is there all day and I really liked seeing it used in high level MMA.

 

[winterbike]

Always loved those kinds of armbars, could never ever ever get them to work, except that one time in competition as a white belt.

I'll be forever stuck getting armbars from the top like a pleb it seems.

 

[shunyata]

So the new control is the old control.

Yup.

Didn't Jacare just get his armed snapped by Muniz a few weeks back with that same sort of Rousey esque under the arm control too?

 

[EndlessCritic]

Didn't Jacare just get his armed snapped by Muniz a few weeks back with that same sort of Rousey esque under the arm control too?

Yes. The under armpit grip is of course an extremely powerful finish from a perpendicular position. Dern and Andrea Lee just had under-armpit finishes as well.

But Craig didn't use it to finish. He used it as a setup from a head-on position to setup an attack on the other arm.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Yup.

Didn't Jacare just get his armed snapped by Muniz a few weeks back with that same sort of Rousey esque under the arm control too?

Yup, but Muniz started from Jacare's back with one hook in. This makes me cringe every time I see it - you can clearly hear the arm snap at 0:16.



What I don't understand in this sequence is why Jacare deliberately chooses to post out with his right arm at 0:07, essentially giving it to Muniz to snatch up. Tough to tell from the angle, but it seems Jacare could have easily just kept his elbows in and bumped Muniz off toward the fence - taking north south with Muniz inverted against the cage. DC even calls it that "he's too high."

 

[rmongler]

Further explanation as to who was using this?

Opponent posts his arm(s) on your chest - you wrap it up and go to the arm bar. The all time classic.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Opponent puts his arm(s) on your chest - you wrap it up and go to the arm bar. The all time classic.

Yes... of course this is classic, and still works. But Craig's setup is very different from what Nogueira does here.

 

[rmongler]

Yes... of course this is classic, and still works. But Craig's setup is very different from what Nogueira does here.

I wouldn't call it 'very' different. He posted up on Craig's chest, Craig went for the over arm tie, and got the arm bar. That's the all time classic.

Or to put it in other words, you could say there are differences of degree (in that the exact spot on the torso the opponent's hands are placed is not the exact same spots), but not of kind.

 

[ChickenBrother]

A must watch video on the split guard:

I don't think Craig did it this way in the fight, but a unique detail (and what you may have been referring to) in how Pravec seems to do the hand in armpit control is by using his elbow (vs. palming opponent's elbow) and turning into the clampdown. He shows it pretty clearly in this video:

marked:


I remember trying this in rolling a few years ago without success. But your OP reminded me of it and maybe it's time to try it out again.

 

[EndlessCritic]

I don't think Craig did it this way in the fight, but a unique detail (and what you may have been referring to) in how Pravec seems to do the hand in armpit control is by using his elbow (vs. palming opponent's elbow) and turning into the clampdown. He shows it pretty clearly in this video:

marked:


I remember trying this in rolling a few years ago without success. But your OP reminded me of it and maybe it's time to try it out again.

Craig definitely does it quite different from what Pravec is showing here. Though Craig isn't grabbing Hill's right elbow with his left hand. He's pinning Hill's right hand in his armpit and grabbing behind Hill's left elbow with his left hand.

Bottom line I made this thread to talk about the hand in armpit grip. There is much to be explored in MMA with this position. I suspect it's even easier to execute in MMA than BJJ because of the glove.