Law Is it time to stop traffic stops or have someone other than police to handle them?

I like the idea.
Sorta kills the "just wanna get home to my family" angle when you are willing to jump out your own ass over a faulty license plate light.




Also think that Vehicle Safety Inspections are flawed as well and only serve to put money in the pockets of the company that makes the inspection machines.


Hell, anybody that aint a bully or a dick head overseer should be happy about this. Leads to less unnecessary interactions.

Libertarians should be all over this!
 
Minneapolis pd, as well as other departments and jurisdictions have decided not to pull people over for various traffic violations. These include driving while suspended, expired registration, and other issues that do not constitute a threat to public safety. The reasons are two fold with the first being cited as a better use of resources. The second is because these stops disproportionately affect black motorists. This is in the wake of the shooting of the black motorist that led to charges of murder. This was the dunate Wright shooting where he was wanted on a gun charge and was shot by Kim porter, who mistook her gun for a taser. Wright fought with officers and climbed back in the car and tried to flee in the vehicle. All around bad shoot snd criminal, however, I would at voluntary or involuntary manslaughter at most because it was obviously an accident despite what some idiots say-she immediately said “oh my God, that was my gun.” This of course led to riots and protests.

Other areas like Virginia have also decided to not stop those breaking traffic laws.

Another approach is to completely take police out of traffic enforcement and instead use unarmed traffic enforcers like roving meter maids or traffic cameras to do the job of police. The reasoning? They claim that there are too many deadly interactions during traffic stops. Here are some leading pro and con opinions.

Police shouldn’t have any role in traffic enforcement

“Cities should transfer traffic enforcement to non-police. Those responsible for making sure traffic rules are followed should be unarmed and separate from criminal law enforcement and investigations.” — Anna Kurien, Appeal

Pretextual stops should be banned

“If state legislatures and police departments nationwide were to prohibit pretextual vehicle stops … police officers would be blocked from acting on some of their worst instincts. Banning pretextual stops would free officers to focus their attention on serious traffic safety violations or on stops based on more than a hunch of criminality — a better use of police resources.” — Neil Gros, New York Times

Ending enforcement of low-level traffic violations would be good for police-community relations

“It will have a big impact on poor people. It will have big impact on people who drive older cars, and it will have a very big impact on black and Hispanic drivers, because if they knew that they were only going to get pulled over for running through a stop sign or excessive speeding, they will feel much more confident that they could be treated fairly by their police.” — Political scientist Frank Baumgartner to North State Journal

Ending police traffic stops would leave dangerous criminals on the street

“Somewhere along the way to righteous demands for police reform, we have elected to toss the baby out with the bathwater. Proactive policing strategies, which were adopted more than three decades ago, have come under knee-jerk assault, though studies have provided evidence they can prevent or reduce crime.” — James Gagliano, CNN

There’s no reason for armed police officers to enforce minor traffic violations

“The fact that stops over minor motor vehicle infractions do sometimes lead to violence — against police officers and the people they pull over — presents yet another reason to resist putting police and drivers in direct contact over non-risky matters like expired licenses, a broken taillight, or an illegally hung air freshener.” — Elizabeth Nolan Brown, Reason

Police treat every traffic stop as a life-or-death situation

“It’s drilled into police that traffic stop ambushes are routine. They aren’t. They happen, but they’re vanishingly rare. … Those cases are of course tragic and awful. But drumming it into cops to see every stop as his or her potential last has real world consequences.” — Radley Balko, Washington Post

Unarmed traffic enforcers would face enormous danger

“Unarmed traffic officers work well in many other nations, where the people they stop likewise are unarmed. Here, though, there are more deadly weapons than there are people. That unfortunate fact is what puts so many armed police in the position of handling what ought to be administrative, social or health problems.” — Editorial, Los Angeles Times

Public safety stopped being the purpose behind traffic stops a long time ago

“We have cities and towns across the country using traffic stops in place of taxes, extracting money from people of color and from the poor, and using these stops to terrorize and kill black people. Is there some positive impact that could possibly outweigh this? Are our traffic stops saving lives that would otherwise be lost? Of course they’re not!” — Raphael Orlove, Jalopnik

Fewer police interactions means fewer police shootings

“The simplest way to reduce bad interactions between the police and the public is to reduce the number of interactions.” — Jeremy Pratt, Bangor Daily News

Cameras should handle the majority of traffic enforcement duties

“Speed and red light cameras are a proven, functional technology that make roads safer by slowing drivers down. They’re widely used in other countries and can also enforce parking restrictions like not blocking bus or bike lanes. They’re incredibly effective enforcers of the law. They never need coffee breaks, don’t let their friends or coworkers off easy, and certainly don’t discriminate based on the color of the driver’s skin.” — Aaron Gordon, Vice

Here is my opinion on this. I am actually mixed on this one. If pushed, I would say no, it’s too dangerous for the civilian traffic enforcers. But I think a combination of cameras and unarmed traffic enforcers could work in some situations while still allowing police to do traffic stops when they see a traffic violation-same as they do now. I believe most people would stop for the traffic squad, however, there are many that would not.

What I would see happening is that these units would stay the fuck out of the hood and would punish middle and upper class mostly-the least likely to flee or attack the enforcer. Traffic cams were the rage in the early 2000s, but met significant resistance in some areas. Personally, I see dirtbags fleeing from the traffic unit snd then claim a. their car was stolen and b. it wasn’t them driving and they lent the car to a friend whose name they won’t know-just a friend of a friend because, hey, who doesn’t lend their car to people they don’t know. We used to have an issue with “geeking” which is when a crackhead lends a dealer their car in exchange for drugs and when they don’t return the car after joyriding in it, they try to report it stolen.

So, warroom, are you in favor of taking police out of traffic stops?





https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/minneapolis-police-curb-stops-minor-traffic-violators-79442575

https://news.yahoo.com/it-is-time-to-take-the-police-out-of-traffic-stops-155835442.html


Ive never been pulled over for expired registration. I’ve been cited for it but something else lead to the stop. The only time I’ve been pulled over, not for speeding, would be no front license plate.
 
There have been 2 stories in the past month that involved finding dead bodies in the trunk. They would have never been found if they weren’t pulled over (for whatever. Can’t remember).
 
Agreed. I don't see driving while suspended as free of threat to public safety.

@nhbbear on this one I have to admit I have no reference point upon which to judge with any certainty what ought to be done. I know what my feelings tell me but that's just from the news and whatnot. I happen to live in an extremely safe place from the point of view of intentional weaponized violence. But it's also rife with extremely selfish drivers and not nearly enough enforcement. So I can only relate my experience and what little I do know, HTH.

The other day I walked to the grocery store--perhaps a 15 minute walk--and no less than 3 times I was nearly run over in a crosswalk by drivers turning and failing to see me or just plain refusing to cede the right of way. One of them was a fire department pickup truck. One of them I was able to see clearly the entire time looking to his left--he never looked in my direction at all until after he had jammed his foot on the gas. If I had not been paying attention either--say looking at my phone--it would have been bad, no exaggeration. It's also a daily occurrence walking back and forth to work where I pass many one-way streets. It happens constantly that people fly past the stop sign and right onto the crosswalk before they stop--if they stop--and I have had very close calls more times than I can count now.

Contrast that with Halifax Police being found to be so grossly fond of "street checks" and so fond of targeting black people especially, but really minorities in general, that street checks were found to be criminalizing those very people.

Out of all the quotes you posted I found this one to be most troubling:

"“Somewhere along the way to righteous demands for police reform, we have elected to toss the baby out with the bathwater. Proactive policing strategies, which were adopted more than three decades ago, have come under knee-jerk assault, though studies have provided evidence they can prevent or reduce crime.” — James Gagliano, CNN"

I can't tell if he's talking about predictive policing software here but that shit's just plain bad.

tl;dr every place is different and a 1-size fits all approach is not wise. But the bias evident in much of policing--unintentional or not--needs to go if things are to get better--letting people get away with shit or making it easy to do so isn't helping.

I always knew who the people with suspended licenses were and they were usually trouble. You would see Johnny shitbag, whom you have gotten guns off of, driving suspended and pull him over and get drugs or guns or he has a warrant, etc. their reasoning is that it targets black people, so they are saying that black people don’t have valid licenses. Kind of offensive if you ask me
 
How are those not a threat to society? Usually people who have those are problematic and arent driving their auntie to the hospital as an emergency.

Nah, I've driven around with an expired registration. It's usually a paper work problem or beurocracy and red tape issue. People have to get to and from work regardless of their status so they're going to drive legal or not. Some people have no idead their paper work isn't valid anymore.
 
The amount of absolute idiots driving really should be reduced. I've seen people drive much worse than drunk drivers or people texting while driving while completely sober. But for some reason everyone gets up in arms for drunk drivers, when a sober yet intentionally dangerous driver is worse.
 
Getting rid of any and all penalties for simply possessing drugs would go further in eliminating violent police/citizen interactions.
 
Minneapolis pd, as well as other departments and jurisdictions have decided not to pull people over for various traffic violations. These include driving while suspended, expired registration, and other issues that do not constitute a threat to public safety. The reasons are two fold with the first being cited as a better use of resources. The second is because these stops disproportionately affect black motorists. This is in the wake of the shooting of the black motorist that led to charges of murder. This was the dunate Wright shooting where he was wanted on a gun charge and was shot by Kim porter, who mistook her gun for a taser. Wright fought with officers and climbed back in the car and tried to flee in the vehicle. All around bad shoot snd criminal, however, I would at voluntary or involuntary manslaughter at most because it was obviously an accident despite what some idiots say-she immediately said “oh my God, that was my gun.” This of course led to riots and protests.

Other areas like Virginia have also decided to not stop those breaking traffic laws.

Another approach is to completely take police out of traffic enforcement and instead use unarmed traffic enforcers like roving meter maids or traffic cameras to do the job of police. The reasoning? They claim that there are too many deadly interactions during traffic stops. Here are some leading pro and con opinions.

Police shouldn’t have any role in traffic enforcement

“Cities should transfer traffic enforcement to non-police. Those responsible for making sure traffic rules are followed should be unarmed and separate from criminal law enforcement and investigations.” — Anna Kurien, Appeal

Pretextual stops should be banned

“If state legislatures and police departments nationwide were to prohibit pretextual vehicle stops … police officers would be blocked from acting on some of their worst instincts. Banning pretextual stops would free officers to focus their attention on serious traffic safety violations or on stops based on more than a hunch of criminality — a better use of police resources.” — Neil Gros, New York Times

Ending enforcement of low-level traffic violations would be good for police-community relations

“It will have a big impact on poor people. It will have big impact on people who drive older cars, and it will have a very big impact on black and Hispanic drivers, because if they knew that they were only going to get pulled over for running through a stop sign or excessive speeding, they will feel much more confident that they could be treated fairly by their police.” — Political scientist Frank Baumgartner to North State Journal

Ending police traffic stops would leave dangerous criminals on the street

“Somewhere along the way to righteous demands for police reform, we have elected to toss the baby out with the bathwater. Proactive policing strategies, which were adopted more than three decades ago, have come under knee-jerk assault, though studies have provided evidence they can prevent or reduce crime.” — James Gagliano, CNN

There’s no reason for armed police officers to enforce minor traffic violations

“The fact that stops over minor motor vehicle infractions do sometimes lead to violence — against police officers and the people they pull over — presents yet another reason to resist putting police and drivers in direct contact over non-risky matters like expired licenses, a broken taillight, or an illegally hung air freshener.” — Elizabeth Nolan Brown, Reason

Police treat every traffic stop as a life-or-death situation

“It’s drilled into police that traffic stop ambushes are routine. They aren’t. They happen, but they’re vanishingly rare. … Those cases are of course tragic and awful. But drumming it into cops to see every stop as his or her potential last has real world consequences.” — Radley Balko, Washington Post

Unarmed traffic enforcers would face enormous danger

“Unarmed traffic officers work well in many other nations, where the people they stop likewise are unarmed. Here, though, there are more deadly weapons than there are people. That unfortunate fact is what puts so many armed police in the position of handling what ought to be administrative, social or health problems.” — Editorial, Los Angeles Times

Public safety stopped being the purpose behind traffic stops a long time ago

“We have cities and towns across the country using traffic stops in place of taxes, extracting money from people of color and from the poor, and using these stops to terrorize and kill black people. Is there some positive impact that could possibly outweigh this? Are our traffic stops saving lives that would otherwise be lost? Of course they’re not!” — Raphael Orlove, Jalopnik

Fewer police interactions means fewer police shootings

“The simplest way to reduce bad interactions between the police and the public is to reduce the number of interactions.” — Jeremy Pratt, Bangor Daily News

Cameras should handle the majority of traffic enforcement duties

“Speed and red light cameras are a proven, functional technology that make roads safer by slowing drivers down. They’re widely used in other countries and can also enforce parking restrictions like not blocking bus or bike lanes. They’re incredibly effective enforcers of the law. They never need coffee breaks, don’t let their friends or coworkers off easy, and certainly don’t discriminate based on the color of the driver’s skin.” — Aaron Gordon, Vice

Here is my opinion on this. I am actually mixed on this one. If pushed, I would say no, it’s too dangerous for the civilian traffic enforcers. But I think a combination of cameras and unarmed traffic enforcers could work in some situations while still allowing police to do traffic stops when they see a traffic violation-same as they do now. I believe most people would stop for the traffic squad, however, there are many that would not.

What I would see happening is that these units would stay the fuck out of the hood and would punish middle and upper class mostly-the least likely to flee or attack the enforcer. Traffic cams were the rage in the early 2000s, but met significant resistance in some areas. Personally, I see dirtbags fleeing from the traffic unit snd then claim a. their car was stolen and b. it wasn’t them driving and they lent the car to a friend whose name they won’t know-just a friend of a friend because, hey, who doesn’t lend their car to people they don’t know. We used to have an issue with “geeking” which is when a crackhead lends a dealer their car in exchange for drugs and when they don’t return the car after joyriding in it, they try to report it stolen.

So, warroom, are you in favor of taking police out of traffic stops?





https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/minneapolis-police-curb-stops-minor-traffic-violators-79442575

https://news.yahoo.com/it-is-time-to-take-the-police-out-of-traffic-stops-155835442.html

If they removed ticket quotas no law abiding or non criminal would have an issue with getting pulled over and receiving a warning for clear traffic violations. I have said it on here a few times but I never write tickets for traffic. I just don’t care about it and I know people fuck up since we are always in a hurry. That being said, if I pull you over completely disregarding a stop sign in a school zone and you don’t have insurance or a valid license… yea you’re probably going to take a ride to the station for a little bit.

This might sound crazy to civilians but traffic stops are actually the #1 way we get illegal guns off the streets in Chicago.
 
Nah, I've driven around with an expired registration. It's usually a paper work problem or beurocracy and red tape issue. People have to get to and from work regardless of their status so they're going to drive legal or not. Some people have no idead their paper work isn't valid anymore.

Not in my experiences sadly.

Its easy to know when your shit expires....write it down. I know the date of all my licenses and tags expiry for cars, hunting, fishing, kinesiology, etc. Laziness is not an excuse to be dumb. Cops should be able to pull you over, inquire on why and go from there.
 
There have been 2 stories in the past month that involved finding dead bodies in the trunk. They would have never been found if they weren’t pulled over (for whatever. Can’t remember).

Kidnap victims have been saved because of traffic stops as well. Timothy McVeigh was caught because he didn't have a license plate on his getaway car.
 
The long term play here doesn't require cops.
Infrastructure bill also had language looking to require car manufacturers to install breathalyzer type devices into the ignition system of new vehicles.
The push for electric and self driving cars is all going to lull people into giving over control of their ability to move so that they can take that control over at any time, and they can further monitor your movements.

So if you speed in the future no cops will be needed, your car will slow it's self down and/or rat on you.

I'm starting to understand old guys who still drive old cars....
 
Traffic statutes are unconstitutional anyway. Obviously the motivation is absurd but police shouldn't doing traffic stops and issuing tickets as that impedes our constitutional right to travel. It criminalizes people for exercising their constitutional rights.
Lol, "I'm travelling, not driving!".... "...maritime law!!! Terry vs ohio!".

What about the illegals that don't got car insurance ?
Insurance and registration are racist. They are far too difficult for some people to get.
 
This is adorable that the “Don’t tread on me” type folk are now crying that cops can’t pull people over for non safety related reasons, in order to simply tread on them.

consistency people. Please.

I was just coming to say you would think these dorks would be against licensing in general. Let alone being in favor licensing enforcement.
 
I think it's a tough decision, primarily because of the pretextual stops.

Simple traffic violations don't need police. Speeding, expired plates, etc. can be a simple pull over, check the records, issue the citation. I agree with the premise that if the driver knows that this is just a traffic stop without the risk of an arrest attached to it then the stakes and propensity for violence from the driver goes down. Like parking violations -- we don't use cops for those and it works just fine.

The complicated thing is the pretextual stops. I recognize the value of those things for those times were police might not have another defensible justification to stop a potential criminal. I like pretextual stops despite all of the other complications that come with them (such as the issues of DWB).

Overall though, I lean in favor of removing the police from traffic stops. This stems from what I believe is a general culture of over policing. Upholding the rule of law doesn't have to come exclusively from armed police-citizen engagements.
 
Mass police state under the guise of lightening up police surveillance.

Instead of cops pulling you over, now we're going to have unarmed social workers pull you over. By the way, your vehicle will be scanned and tracked everywhere you go, you'll need a breathalyzer to be able to start the ignition and your car will inform the police when you do something wrong. All to keep us safe.

What could go wrong?

Thank god for these Democratic politicians that care about our lives. If they didn't protect us, who would?
 
This is how it will go down..These unarmed traffic enforcers will primarily go after ( ticket ) soccer moms, old ladies and citizens they know pose no threat. They will not risk their lives trying to enforce traffic laws on people they perceive to be a threat. Most Turds don't stop for armed police in my area so I know they aren't going to stop for these security guards
If they're not stopping for armed police and they won't stop for this unarmed group either then it doesn't really matter who you grant the authority to, does it? The fix is obvious though. The unarmed entity simply records the license plate, date and time of the noncompliance and that can be turned over to the regular police.
 
Minneapolis pd, as well as other departments and jurisdictions have decided not to pull people over for various traffic violations. These include driving while suspended, expired registration, and other issues that do not constitute a threat to public safety. The reasons are two fold with the first being cited as a better use of resources. The second is because these stops disproportionately affect black motorists. This is in the wake of the shooting of the black motorist that led to charges of murder. This was the dunate Wright shooting where he was wanted on a gun charge and was shot by Kim porter, who mistook her gun for a taser. Wright fought with officers and climbed back in the car and tried to flee in the vehicle. All around bad shoot snd criminal, however, I would at voluntary or involuntary manslaughter at most because it was obviously an accident despite what some idiots say-she immediately said “oh my God, that was my gun.” This of course led to riots and protests.

Other areas like Virginia have also decided to not stop those breaking traffic laws.

Another approach is to completely take police out of traffic enforcement and instead use unarmed traffic enforcers like roving meter maids or traffic cameras to do the job of police. The reasoning? They claim that there are too many deadly interactions during traffic stops. Here are some leading pro and con opinions.

Police shouldn’t have any role in traffic enforcement

“Cities should transfer traffic enforcement to non-police. Those responsible for making sure traffic rules are followed should be unarmed and separate from criminal law enforcement and investigations.” — Anna Kurien, Appeal

Pretextual stops should be banned

“If state legislatures and police departments nationwide were to prohibit pretextual vehicle stops … police officers would be blocked from acting on some of their worst instincts. Banning pretextual stops would free officers to focus their attention on serious traffic safety violations or on stops based on more than a hunch of criminality — a better use of police resources.” — Neil Gros, New York Times

Ending enforcement of low-level traffic violations would be good for police-community relations

“It will have a big impact on poor people. It will have big impact on people who drive older cars, and it will have a very big impact on black and Hispanic drivers, because if they knew that they were only going to get pulled over for running through a stop sign or excessive speeding, they will feel much more confident that they could be treated fairly by their police.” — Political scientist Frank Baumgartner to North State Journal

Ending police traffic stops would leave dangerous criminals on the street

“Somewhere along the way to righteous demands for police reform, we have elected to toss the baby out with the bathwater. Proactive policing strategies, which were adopted more than three decades ago, have come under knee-jerk assault, though studies have provided evidence they can prevent or reduce crime.” — James Gagliano, CNN

There’s no reason for armed police officers to enforce minor traffic violations

“The fact that stops over minor motor vehicle infractions do sometimes lead to violence — against police officers and the people they pull over — presents yet another reason to resist putting police and drivers in direct contact over non-risky matters like expired licenses, a broken taillight, or an illegally hung air freshener.” — Elizabeth Nolan Brown, Reason

Police treat every traffic stop as a life-or-death situation

“It’s drilled into police that traffic stop ambushes are routine. They aren’t. They happen, but they’re vanishingly rare. … Those cases are of course tragic and awful. But drumming it into cops to see every stop as his or her potential last has real world consequences.” — Radley Balko, Washington Post

Unarmed traffic enforcers would face enormous danger

“Unarmed traffic officers work well in many other nations, where the people they stop likewise are unarmed. Here, though, there are more deadly weapons than there are people. That unfortunate fact is what puts so many armed police in the position of handling what ought to be administrative, social or health problems.” — Editorial, Los Angeles Times

Public safety stopped being the purpose behind traffic stops a long time ago

“We have cities and towns across the country using traffic stops in place of taxes, extracting money from people of color and from the poor, and using these stops to terrorize and kill black people. Is there some positive impact that could possibly outweigh this? Are our traffic stops saving lives that would otherwise be lost? Of course they’re not!” — Raphael Orlove, Jalopnik

Fewer police interactions means fewer police shootings

“The simplest way to reduce bad interactions between the police and the public is to reduce the number of interactions.” — Jeremy Pratt, Bangor Daily News

Cameras should handle the majority of traffic enforcement duties

“Speed and red light cameras are a proven, functional technology that make roads safer by slowing drivers down. They’re widely used in other countries and can also enforce parking restrictions like not blocking bus or bike lanes. They’re incredibly effective enforcers of the law. They never need coffee breaks, don’t let their friends or coworkers off easy, and certainly don’t discriminate based on the color of the driver’s skin.” — Aaron Gordon, Vice

Here is my opinion on this. I am actually mixed on this one. If pushed, I would say no, it’s too dangerous for the civilian traffic enforcers. But I think a combination of cameras and unarmed traffic enforcers could work in some situations while still allowing police to do traffic stops when they see a traffic violation-same as they do now. I believe most people would stop for the traffic squad, however, there are many that would not.

What I would see happening is that these units would stay the fuck out of the hood and would punish middle and upper class mostly-the least likely to flee or attack the enforcer. Traffic cams were the rage in the early 2000s, but met significant resistance in some areas. Personally, I see dirtbags fleeing from the traffic unit snd then claim a. their car was stolen and b. it wasn’t them driving and they lent the car to a friend whose name they won’t know-just a friend of a friend because, hey, who doesn’t lend their car to people they don’t know. We used to have an issue with “geeking” which is when a crackhead lends a dealer their car in exchange for drugs and when they don’t return the car after joyriding in it, they try to report it stolen.

So, warroom, are you in favor of taking police out of traffic stops?





https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/minneapolis-police-curb-stops-minor-traffic-violators-79442575

https://news.yahoo.com/it-is-time-to-take-the-police-out-of-traffic-stops-155835442.html


I pity any man or woman who would take a job that required them to be unarmed while performing traffic stops in any major US city.
 
Ive never been pulled over for expired registration. I’ve been cited for it but something else lead to the stop. The only time I’ve been pulled over, not for speeding, would be no front license plate.

I have never pulled
Anyone over for bullshit like that
 
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