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"You've never boxed!" is a stupid argument against criticism for boxers.

There are hall of fame caliber trainers who never boxed. Promoters as well.

i agree. And in all athletics as well. That was drunken sarcasm. And it was basically undetectable.

Over the decades boxing and mma fans have become unbelievably sensitive and say the you’ve never put on a pair of gloves line lady’s are great fighters and when fighters lay an egg they are above criticism.
which is silly as you can apply that to any walk of life.
 
that’s ridiculous, all respect to those who actually box, but I’m a musician, and when I (and all other musicians and artists writers etc of all types) release something to the public, it becomes the publics to digest, interpret their own way and yes criticize. Congress literally are voted into office, the public has every right to criticize and interpret those in office all they want, and all movies made after 1999 absolutely suck, that’s not just an opinion, it literally says it in every history book. All three scenarios are totally different than the boxing scenario. Still, and think this over in your noggins, not just singling out Wiggins here

if someone can learn to box, and widen their understanding over time and work to hone their skills, then a devoted observer can ALSO widen their understanding, learns the strategies, hone their eyes to see what’s going on. The rules and judging criteria can be found for anyone to learn, and the entire population has access to media that literally has everything for every enthusiast at every level. I don’t understand what is so hard to understand about someone with 10-15+ years of dedicated observation of the sport of boxing learning a thing or two along the way.

It might not feel right to “someone who has boxed” to admit they can accept a non boxers opinion, but it’s prideful and pointless, you came to an Internet forum to talk about boxing, but are gonna get full of yourself and ignore non boxers? Pretty weak argument, if you aren’t enthused to DISCUSS boxing why are you on a forum at all?
lmao that was clear sarcasm bro
 
that’s ridiculous, all respect to those who actually box, but I’m a musician, and when I (and all other musicians and artists writers etc of all types) release something to the public, it becomes the publics to digest, interpret their own way and yes criticize. Congress literally are voted into office, the public has every right to criticize and interpret those in office all they want, and all movies made after 1999 absolutely suck, that’s not just an opinion, it literally says it in every history book. All three scenarios are totally different than the boxing scenario. Still, and think this over in your noggins, not just singling out Wiggins here

if someone can learn to box, and widen their understanding over time and work to hone their skills, then a devoted observer can ALSO widen their understanding, learns the strategies, hone their eyes to see what’s going on. The rules and judging criteria can be found for anyone to learn, and the entire population has access to media that literally has everything for every enthusiast at every level. I don’t understand what is so hard to understand about someone with 10-15+ years of dedicated observation of the sport of boxing learning a thing or two along the way.

It might not feel right to “someone who has boxed” to admit they can accept a non boxers opinion, but it’s prideful and pointless, you came to an Internet forum to talk about boxing, but are gonna get full of yourself and ignore non boxers? Pretty weak argument, if you aren’t enthused to DISCUSS boxing why are you on a forum at all?

There are different levels of interpretation and criticism. Some people can give good qualified feedback but most cant
 
I hate it when someone criticizes a boxer, and someone else replies with, "You've never boxed, so you have no right to criticize!". The idea that you need to have boxed to know whether someone is a good fighter or not is, quite frankly, stupid. You don't need to be a gourmet chef to know whether someone's cooking is good or bad.

Well, if they respond with those words exactly, then yeah. There are plenty of valid opinions from people who have never boxed. You see this a lot when fans call a fighter a "bum," but a boxer is way more reluctant to use the word (unless deliberately trash talking to get under skin). To get at the level where you are on T.V. you aren't a bum. It's a mean word used by loser fans.

With that in mind, fans can be awful ignorant and downright stupid sounding. People who haven't boxed giving their advice or "should haves" are commenting on something they have an incomplete opinion about. It's like someone saying, "oh, I wouldn't like having kids, I wouldn't enjoy it," but they never had them so how do they know? Likely, they see the frustrated parent wringing his or her fists in idle fury as their kid throws a bitch fit in an aisle at a department store and think, "that sucks." And, there is a truth to it. It sucks. But it's a limited truth with much ignorance. That observer also doesn't get to watch their kid learn something, like untie a knot, or finish a puzzle, and then feel this sense of fullness and love, or get it in a more direct way, when the kid walks up to them when they are sad, gives them a hug and says, "I love you." They don't really get it b3cause they don't have it. Nieces, nephews, friends with kids, none of that is the same, it's like Plato's forms. There is very nearly no way to replicate that feeling of being a parent except by living it. Those people who comment on not wanting kids might just be right, to a point, but honest truth: they don't know what they are missing out on so how much do they really know? Limited, at best.

To bring it back to the sport, it's like saying, "that boxer should retire," but if you've never experienced boxing, you don't know their "why," with regards to their refusal to quit. Maybe they should, but it's like someone who was an addict understanding the plight of recovery much better than someone who hasn't. You've got some ignorance tucked away in your soul. To experience anything is to understand it in a deeper way. Process manifests in the brain automatically.

Likely, people who haven't boxed will try to defend their position, and they certainly can have valid points. Coaches who have never boxed are obviously very close to the sport, like Angelo Dundee, and people like him have an incredible boxing mind. But he sees the sport in a deeper and different way from fans because he, too, lives the mentor part of it (by extension, not all boxers make great coaches just because they have boxed).

So, as informed as fans can sometimes be, they have an ignorance that people who have boxed won't have. They need to accept this and not be insecure about it.
 
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It’s a nonsense argument! Actually playing a sport does give a different perspective, no doubt. However there are also incredibly knowledgable fans that have never put a pair of gloves on before. I’ve been boxing over 30 years on and off, and there are definitely more knowledgeable fans than me in this forum, who haven’t boxed, or only trained a little bit

the problem is most casual fans really are fuckin clueless, so their criticisms are gonna get picked apart by someone more knowledgeable. I get pissed off when I hear someone questioning a fighters heart, when I know they’ve never been in a real fight in their whole life
 
I hate it when someone criticizes a boxer, and someone else replies with, "You've never boxed, so you have no right to criticize!". The idea that you need to have boxed to know whether someone is a good fighter or not is, quite frankly, stupid. You don't need to be a gourmet chef to know whether someone's cooking is good or bad.

With all due respect to ur opinion and agreeing with u that anybody has the right to critizise. I boxed at very very low level as a casual for fitness, i love boxing and i dont see the insides of a fight, not to mention the technical adjustments. If u are eating burguers and ny pizza u may not understand a raw tuna belly at 20 times the price of a burguer. I recommend u a youtube channel "boxing gems". Check it and let me know if u really see what a guy with knowledge see. (if u like boxing u will love the channel). Nice discussion.
 
With all due respect to ur opinion and agreeing with u that anybody has the right to critizise. I boxed at very very low level as a casual for fitness, i love boxing and i dont see the insides of a fight, not to mention the technical adjustments. If u are eating burguers and ny pizza u may not understand a raw tuna belly at 20 times the price of a burguer. I recommend u a youtube channel "boxing gems". Check it and let me know if u really see what a guy with knowledge see. (if u like boxing u will love the channel). Nice discussion.

You don't get "boxing" because you were taking a jazzer-cize class with boxing gloves. No offense, but going THROUGH hard sparring a some modicum of a camp, and then experiencing a match will be more revealing than spin-class in a boxing ring.
 
You don't get "boxing" because you were taking a jazzer-cize class with boxing gloves. No offense, but going THROUGH hard sparring a some modicum of a camp, and then experiencing a match will be more revealing than spin-class in a boxing ring.

Well i was basically trying to say, that casuals like me dont understand boxing properly like a practitioner does, although we are fans of the sport. As we say in my country "u see the bull different from the barrier".
 
Yeah, neither does football


XD XD XD

I guess the way I'd put it is, do you want boxing to end up like Chess? Basically, it's impossible to enjoy chess without knowing how to play it. The result of this is that it has virtually no casual plans and then the ones who play it casually don't watch it either because they can play it among themselves. The ones who end up really good just end up competing anyway, so there's a virtually little grey area of people who will show up to observe real tournaments.

Then there's sumo, Japan's leading combat sport, that essentially follows giant fat dude's in diapers trying to knock each other out of a ring. Should the Japanese be required to gain 250lbs and learn to wrestle before being allowed comment on or watch it?
 
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Obviously someone can point out technical flaws without having competitive experience, many of the best trainers in the sport have not competed first hand.

However, I think there are a lot of fans who haven’t competed or trained who have an unrealistic depiction of what they will look like if they gave it a try.

A lot of guys seem to think they will instantly look like some sort of unrefined pro, sort of like Ricardo Mayorga with less cardio.

Realistically if you are picking up boxing as an adult this is a typical level to be at after a couple of months training;



There’s nothing abnormal about either of these two guys, if you plug white collar boxing into YouTube you will find many people at a similar level, this is probably slightly higher level but no one would losing sleep about getting laid out by one of these bombs;



Of course there are many solid amateur boxers out there who are now fans but for the over all percentage of fans out there they tend to be the minority.
 
I guess the way I'd put it is, do you want boxing to end up like Chess? Basically, it's impossible to enjoy chess without knowing how to play it. The result of this is that it has virtually no casual plans and then the ones who play it casually don't watch it either because they can play it among themselves. The ones who end up really good just end up competing anyway, so there's virtually little grey area of people who will show up to observe real tournaments.

Then there's sumo, Japan's leading combat sport, that essentially follows giant fat dude's in diapers trying to knock each other out of a ring. Should the Japanese be required to gain 250lbs and learn to wrestle before being allowed comment on or watch it?

I'm a huge chess fan and player ~1000 rapid and ~850 blitz. Most of boxing is already a niche sport and only mega crossover stars break the barrier. Most people today couldnt name 3 of the Top 5 PFP...this sport is already niche!
 
I'm a huge chess fan and player ~1000 rapid and ~850 blitz. Most of boxing is already a niche sport and only mega crossover stars break the barrier. Most people today couldnt name 3 of the Top 5 PFP...this sport is already niche!
Yes, and it would be far more niche if the requirement to watch it was to also partake in it yourself. People are capable of watching a boxing match and seeing who is winning and losing without knowing all the ins and outs ... if it was like Chess where you needed to understand how to play the whole thing the audience would obviously be smaller. Major fights would be watched in a town hall in front of 50 people.
 
I've bet you've criticized restaurants, books, movies, TV shows, politicians, etc.

I bet youre a lot of fun at parties. And politics aint like the other things because its not (supposed to be) entertainment
 
I bet youre a lot of fun at parties. And politics aint like the other things because its not (supposed to be) entertainment
Doesn't matter if it's not entertainment, the point is that you've probably criticized someone else's performance in a job/activity you've never done. Certain people (like you) get real sensitive when fans don't like watching certain fighters or enjoy their performance. At the end of the day a fan has every right to feel that the fight sucked or wasn't enjoyable or feel that a particular fighter just isn't very good.
 
It’s a nonsense argument! Actually playing a sport does give a different perspective, no doubt. However there are also incredibly knowledgable fans that have never put a pair of gloves on before. I’ve been boxing over 30 years on and off, and there are definitely more knowledgeable fans than me in this forum, who haven’t boxed, or only trained a little bit

the problem is most casual fans really are fuckin clueless, so their criticisms are gonna get picked apart by someone more knowledgeable. I get pissed off when I hear someone questioning a fighters heart, when I know they’ve never been in a real fight in their whole life

Major League Baseball front offices are full of people who never played the game and it's not by accident.

If only people who participated in a sport at a high level could talk about the sport (and discussing something will occasionally entail criticism) then sports would die.

I think someone else hit the nail on the head earlier. There's a difference between criticism and delusion. "I think he should've done X" is different than "I would've knocked him out/he's a bum/etc."

For example, people criticizing Victor Ortiz for quitting against Maidana. I say that's valid given his stated reasons and the hypocrisy of it. But I remember there was a fella here who said something like "I wouldn't have quit in that situation" which is just delusional and disrespectful. Hypocrite or no, Ortiz had to walk through a lot of fire to get to that fight and the idea that someone would ignore all of that and not only assume they could even get to that point at all, but also be tougher once they got there, is downright crazy.
 
I've never played professional football, but I still know Harry Maguire is shite.
 
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