Did Pereira expose Adesanya and destroy his legacy?

[Eric Silva 2.0]

1. MMA greenhorn and clear underdog Pereira ended UFC P4P No.2 Izzy's 3 year, 5 consecutive defence MW title reign, having pushed him out of kickboxing 5.5 years prior. Izzy never really was the baddest MW on the planet.

2. Izzy can't be in the conversation for best MMA striker anymore as he's 0-3 (2 by KO) against a kickboxer, who he had most success wrestling against.

3. Izzy isn't a "P4P" fighter as he evidently can't win without a massive height and reach advantage (Jan, Alex).

4. Izzy's general wrestling/submission game is poor. An elite wrestler (of which there are currently none at MW) would likely beat him; no wrestler worth their salt should be taken down by Alex, or only secure one TD against him as a result of Alex's botched TD.

Answers to your numbers.....
1. Yes, Izzy was the best MW on the planet
2. Izzy can be in the conversation for best MMA striker. I would have Alex #1, but Izzy's right there also
3. P4P is a B.S. thing. It's fun to talk about but is meaningless
4. Izzy doesn't have to have great wrestling, just great TDD and he does. We knew he wasn't Cael Sanderson.

Summary: Izzy is still great but got beat by someone a little better than him.

 

[stacrafty]

also...

J

And your generalization on tall and rangy champs being more dominant. Again you are clueless and your brain fails to reference check anything fact based. We just saw Volk destroy max. Khabib and Islam are stocky. Double champ DC short and stocky. CCC what's he? GSP...

And at the same time izzy, Jones, Max, Anderson.

So maybe.... it comes down to how each individual uses their physical gifts. Ie comes down to skills.

Cherrypicking a few names to suit your argument proves nothing.

and then....

Height and reach are aspects of size. Tyson Fury is much bigger than Andy Ruiz, despite them being very similar weights.

You're providing anecdotes, I've provided a general statement of truth

Nice own goal there bud.

Does the general feedback in your thead not tell you are off the mark here?

 

[daniel san]

It hurt his legacy, that’s obvious. Probably still #2 MW, but he has a lot to prove in a rematch. He looked like the better fighter and got unlucky that he wasn’t allowed to finish Pereira at the end of round one. Pereira may have his number, but I’m definitely not going to hang from his nuts until he proves he’s the best, which I don’t think he is.

Great for the division though with some new blood and Adesanya taken down a few notches, he had become unbearable.

 

[BowserJr]

Izzy wasn't exposed but Alex re affirmed everyone's suspicion, that izzy just like Jon jones is a fighter who takes advantage of his genes, and wins fights mostly based on bullying much smaller fighters.


In a more even fight he looks less than regular and has lost 2 times to Jan and now Alex.


Izzy is overhyped, especially as the greatest striker of all time, but he is good at what he does which is hit and run, sticking and moving. A real world class striker creates the holes and exploits them, not just runs circles and waits to counter though imo.

The few fights perreira has had in the ufc already qualify him as a better striker than izzy imo.

/thread

 

[Ghostoftheville]

Izzy wasn't exposed but Alex re affirmed everyone's suspicion, that izzy just like Jon jones is a fighter who takes advantage of his genes, and wins fights mostly based on bullying much smaller fighters.


In a more even fight he looks less than regular and has lost 2 times to Jan and now Alex.

Adeysana's nowhere near Jan or Pereira in terms of size. Call him overrated all you want, you're entitled to that, but let's not act Izzy is a big MW all of a sudden

 

[Yellowcrab]

3. Izzy isn't a "P4P" fighter as he evidently can't win without a massive height and reach advantage (Jan, Alex).

Obviously, he didn't lose against Jan because he was the champion in a higher weight class and he didn't lose against Alex because he's one of the best kickboxer in the world.

I mean, it's just about their reach

 

[Ripp0ntare]

Izzy is still great , and was a really good champion but if he was going for GOAT status, then he may not make it at this point. Remains to be seen what he does after this...too early to tell.

 

[herpd807]

GSP Lost a few times...he's still considered the goat WW so...

 

[MPD-Psycho]

Beating someone doesn’t steal his accomplishments.

It’s still too early to tell if Alex can have a greater legacy of his own, or if he’s just Izzy’s Dennis Hallman.

 

[NEETzschean]

It hurt his legacy, that’s obvious. Probably still #2 MW, but he has a lot to prove in a rematch. He looked like the better fighter and got unlucky that he wasn’t allowed to finish Pereira at the end of round one. Pereira may have his number, but I’m definitely not going to hang from his nuts until he proves he’s the best, which I don’t think he is.

Great for the division though with some new blood and Adesanya taken down a few notches, he had become unbearable.

"got unlucky that he wasn’t allowed to finish Pereira at the end of round one."

"Luck" had nothing to do with it; he caught Pereira with a sucker punch just after the bell. Fighters can also afford to be more aggressive toward the end of the round because there isn't time to finish them. Change the ruleset (remove rounds, remove the cage etc.) and the fight would be very different.

Izzy only looked like the better fighter when they were both on the ground. He was getting backed up, hurt and couldn't dominate Pereira on the feet pointfighting as he could most of his opponents. When Pereira stepped on the gas and went all out for the KO, he blew Izzy away inside 2 minutes.

I don't think Pereira is going to go on a long title reign considering his age, the primary goal was always to knock Adesanya off his perch.

 

[NEETzschean]

also...








and then....




Nice own goal there bud.

Does the general feedback in your thead not tell you are off the mark here?

The general feedback in the thread is that Izzy is a very good (albeit limited) fighter but his legacy as a great has been seriously undermined. I agree with that position.

If your argument is that weight = size but you agree that Fury is bigger than Ruiz who is equally heavy, then it's a contradiction on your part. I never claimed that you have to be tall and rangy to be a champion, only that champions tend to be taller and rangier than the division average. And that Izzy has been able to beat all of his much shorter/stubbier opponents but lost to men who almost matched him in these respects.

 

[NEETzschean]

Obviously, he didn't lose against Jan because he was the champion in a higher weight class and he didn't lose against Alex because he's one of the best kickboxer in the world.

I mean, it's just about their reach

Izzy's stubby opponents also had good attributes but he was still able to beat all of them, whereas opponents who almost match him for height and reach consistently beat him, I don't think it's a coincidence. Would Alex with Costa's reach have beaten Izzy? He was favoured to beat Jan and Alex too, the "experts" believed he was better than he was.

 

[NEETzschean]

And he lost 2 of the 3 rounds that were striking only. I call the guy that won those 2 rounds of striking the better striker (not for this reason, but for having superior timing, angles, and movement), but you are welcome to disagree.

Sucker punch and wrestling affect the striking. Round 5 was striking only too.

 

[NEETzschean]

I don't think it's height and reach, but the power difference.

Do you think Alex would have beaten Izzy if he had the same height/reach as Rob, Vettori or Costa?

 

[stacrafty]

The general feedback in the thread is that Izzy is a very good (albeit limited) fighter but his legacy as a great has been seriously undermined. I agree with that position.

If your argument is that weight = size but you agree that Fury is bigger than Ruiz who is equally heavy, then it's a contradiction on your part. I never claimed that you have to be tall and rangy to be a champion, only that champions tend to be taller and rangier than the division average. And that Izzy has been able to beat all of his much shorter/stubbier opponents but lost to men who almost matched him in these respects.

jesus christ, you are just full of hot air. You continually make this claim - link the data, at least provide some fn examples.

and ffs you are just dumb. You think I quoted that fury / ruiz thing to support your argument? did you not see (or understand) the context around it???

Its merely mocking you on the irony of claiming I'm cherry picking, when thats 100% what you did here. Cherry picked Ruiz / Fury. Nothing to do with me supporting your claim.

If I cherry picked, then I cherry picked a bunch of fighters who are the exception to your rule (khabib, islam, volk + a bunch more), then to show I'm objective, picked a bunch to support your argument (Anderson, Jones, Izzy, Max etc). To maybe, just maybe drill it into that clueless rock in your skull which barely passes as a brain... that maybe its the fighters skill that matters. And part of that is understanding their body type and the type of fight that affords.

There is no preset rule.

Short and stocky DC knocked out Stipe. Stipe then used jabs and body shots to knock out DC. Rumble KO'd Gustafsson. Gus gave Jones hell. Jones wrecked a lot of short and stocky guys. Max destroyed Aldo, Volk destroyed max. Izzy destroyed rob the first time, but not with range by sitting in the pocket. Izzy neutered (via skill) a whole bunch of fighters larger than him (weight = size) but who couldn't figure out how to close the distance,. Then according to you, the guy who should do the worst, did near the best (Kelvin). Khabib beat everyone, big or small, tall or short. Same for Islam. Same for Volk.

Remember, you are clueless. You are the poster who confused weight and size with height.

 

[MMAElite4]

100% his legacy is destroyed forever.

His legacy as per the annoying as fuck commercials that used on during every commercial break during the UFC fights (kinda of stopped after losing to Jan LOL) was to be the GOAT when it was all said and done.

He has now had two major losses in fights that he was favored to win and bragged about how he was going to KO his opponent. He failed miserably and no excuses since he is in his PRIME (this is key as GOAT discussion often allows early losses or late losses to kinda of be excluded).

He already lost to an old LHW journeyman (outstruck by him too) and couldn't even defend his belt once against a true LHW.
Now he lost to a guy with 4 UFC fights to his name (who now owes his soul forever).

This excludes his absolutely pathetic performances in the following fights:
1) Vettori 1 (Should have lost)
2) Vettori 2 (Boring decision)
3) Whittaker 2 (Should have lost by apparently his feints and leg kicks are worth ten times more than hard shots to the head)
4) Romero (He lost this fight, some sherdogger broke it down strike by strike since there were so few. Spent the entire fight running and landed 10 leg kicks total)
5) Cannionier (Seriously how the fuck he couldn't even hurt him when he had almost a foot of height/reach over him is pathetic)

His best performances are beating a dogshit overrated Costa (who can't beat anyone outside of old ass Rocksalt), Depressed Whittaker, and Life and Death war against Fat Gasteleum (who subsequently lost to every ranked fighter at MW). Hell dude couldn't KO a 40+ year old Anderson Silva and had to eek out a 29-28 decision.

So his legacy to be the GOAT is forever ruined. He'll never beat Anderson Silva for the MW GOAT either.

Now making excuses that his knee prevented him from moving during the fight...fucking pathetic sack of shit.

 

[mudrubble]

Sucker punch and wrestling affect the striking. Round 5 was striking only too.

You make it seem like Alex turned to walk away and Izzy clocked him. Izzy had him stunned and was in kill mode when the bell rang. That last shot was already being sent before the bell was heard.

 

[markantony20]

No.


Just no.

 

[mudrubble]

100% his legacy is destroyed forever.

His legacy as per the annoying as fuck commercials that used on during every commercial break during the UFC fights (kinda of stopped after losing to Jan LOL) was to be the GOAT when it was all said and done.

He has now had two major losses in fights that he was favored to win and bragged about how he was going to KO his opponent. He failed miserably and no excuses since he is in his PRIME (this is key as GOAT discussion often allows early losses or late losses to kinda of be excluded).

He already lost to an old LHW journeyman (outstruck by him too) and couldn't even defend his belt once against a true LHW.
Now he lost to a guy with 4 UFC fights to his name (who now owes his soul forever).

This excludes his absolutely pathetic performances in the following fights:
1) Vettori 1 (Should have lost)
2) Vettori 2 (Boring decision)
3) Whittaker 2 (Should have lost by apparently his feints and leg kicks are worth ten times more than hard shots to the head)
4) Romero (He lost this fight, some sherdogger broke it down strike by strike since there were so few. Spent the entire fight running and landed 10 leg kicks total)
5) Cannionier (Seriously how the fuck he couldn't even hurt him when he had almost a foot of height/reach over him is pathetic)

His best performances are beating a dogshit overrated Costa (who can't beat anyone outside of old ass Rocksalt), Depressed Whittaker, and Life and Death war against Fat Gasteleum (who subsequently lost to every ranked fighter at MW). Hell dude couldn't KO a 40+ year old Anderson Silva and had to eek out a 29-28 decision.

So his legacy to be the GOAT is forever ruined. He'll never beat Anderson Silva for the MW GOAT either.

Now making excuses that his knee prevented him from moving during the fight...fucking pathetic sack of shit.

I'm a fan of Izzy's skill and I don't agree with you but, MAN, this shit is hilarious to read! This was great.... well done man. I had a bunch of laughs and I'm going to send it to my friends who are also Izzy fans.

 

[MMAElite4]

I'm a fan of Izzy's skill and I don't agree with you but, MAN, this shit is hilarious to read! This was great.... well done man. I had a bunch of laughs and I'm going to send it to my friends who are also Izzy fans.

sorry your boyfriend lost.
Actual go watch his past fights, his performances are god awful outside the few I mentioned.
Try watching them on mute (so fanboys like Rogan/DC don't cloud your judgement).