If Demetrious Johnson was the same size as Jones, would he have beaten him easily?

[Usernamehere]

. Jones isn't even the best athlete in his own family.

He wasn't the best athlethe/wrestler in his division either, irrelevant to who's the best fighter

 

[Dirty Frank]

Is there anything Johnson doesn't do well besides being tall? Would Jones have any chance?

Taking the opposite of this "logic", Jones would be astronomically faster and more athletic if it was he who shrinks down to the size of Johnson.

 

[Usernamehere]

Taking the opposite of this "logic", Jones would be astronomically faster and more athletic if it was he who shrinks down to the size of Johnson.

Speed doesn't change that much with size

 

[Soggust]

Is this Jones at FLW or MM at HW lol?

Or Both at LW/WW?

 

[RonDante]

Flyweight isn’t the deepest or strongest pound for pound division but it’s a lot better than anything above welterweight. People saying “DJ wouldn’t be able to move the same way if he was a light heavyweight” if his technique carried up then he wouldn’t rely on just his power like lots of big guys do, he’d have the technical skill and fight iq to win fights easier cause he was dominant in a tougher division where you need to react fast and can’t just one punch ko your opponent

 

[Usernamehere]

That's not what P4P means to me. I don't look at it as "who would win if they were the same size?"

I look at P4P as "who is the most impressive champion? Who dominates their division better than all the other champions of other divisions?" Bonus points if someone competes and succeeds in multiple divisions. Of course, Heavyweights don't always have that luxury but sometimes a HW can be so impressive he can be the P4P King for years on end like we saw with Fedor.

I think people usually mean both of those things

 

[colorles]

I'm not small. I'm 6'1 and 240 lbs. I've trained a lot of judo, wrestling, and BJJ, and a small amount of muay thai. My experience has always been that the smaller guys are more often than not more skilled than the bigger guys - yet the big guys still beat them because they are bigger and stronger.

Heavyweights are able to get by on knockout power, or by manhandling others who are smaller than them. This leads them to develop less actual technique than those who do not possess that same ability. Take a guy like Derrick Lewis, or Francis Ngannou - both are guys who don't have any sort of amazing technique in their striking, nor do they possess great grappling skills. But due to sheer physicality and power, they can climb to the top of the heavyweight division. The higher weight classes quite clearly have more one-dimensional fighters than the lower divisions, and that's because when you're big, you can get by on physical attributes more easily (i.e. insane knockout power). If a guy like Islam Makachev, Alexander Volkanovski, or even Sean O'Malley possessed the same physical attributes as Ngannou or Lewis, they would utterly outclass and brutalise them. Those smaller fighters are infinitely more skilled than the top heavyweight fighters in MMA. I think you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

while all of what you say is accurate...if mma fighters were paid comparably to NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB athletes, you could bet your bottom dollar that the "skillset arms race" at heavyweight would be at least as competitive as it is at the lower weight classes.

 

[Usernamehere]

There are far less light heavyweight/heavyweight sized people in the world than there are flyweight .

There are not more 5ft 3 guys than lhw.... 5ft3 is borderline midget for a male

 

[colorles]

There are not more 5ft 3 guys than lhw.... 5ft3 is borderline midget for a male

depends on the country and the ethnicity. 5'3'' to 5'7'' is around the average height for many males around the world. and it might be the average height for an American of Guatemalan ancestry for instance. but for an American of German/Scandinavian descent from the mid west? six feet or higher is more or less the average

 

[colorles]

This is obviously just not true.... the fastest runners in the world are all under 210 lbs... and most are under 180... the best jumpers are like 6 ft 2 190 lbs...

There is no such thing as a 250 lb guy that is as athletic as the 190 lb guys... the freaks like Rob Gronkowski and JJ Watt aren't even close to as fast or athletic as the smaller guys they are huge though and almost close to as athletic so they perform so well...

Those guys are probably the most freakish big guys of all time... and they aren't half the athletes of the smaller guys... dont be dumb

this is also true for the most part

most larger men, even high level athletes, are very overrated in their athleticism and it is all relative. being able to dunk a basketball for instance when you are very tall, doesn't take much athleticism.

with that said, there ARE occasional freak athletes that are very large and still quite athletic even by the standards of normal size men.

 

[blaseblase]

There are not more 5ft 3 guys than lhw.... 5ft3 is borderline midget for a male

The current flyweight champ is 5'5. DJ was the shortest fighter in the entire division.

 

[blaseblase]

while all of what you say is accurate...if mma fighters were paid comparably to NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB athletes, you could bet your bottom dollar that the "skillset arms race" at heavyweight would be at least as competitive as it is at the lower weight classes.

Not true. It would be deeper but regardless of pay heavyweight will never be as deep as lightweight because there aren't as many people of that size. Even football has a limited number of good quarterbacks.

 

[Usernamehere]

The current flyweight champ is 5'5. DJ was the shortest fighter in the entire division.

Still rare.. Joe Rogan claims that he's shorter than most people he meets in the states and he claims to be "5'8".

 

[blaseblase]

Still rare.. Joe Rogan claims that he's shorter than most people he meets in the states and he claims to be "5'8".

Okay? We're talking about flyweight, not DJ's specific measurements. There are far more flyweight sized people than there are heavyweight sized people. It's a deeper talent pool.


The fact DJ was shorter than anyone else at flyweight should factor into the p4p debate. He was always facing larger opponents, Jones is larger than almost all of his opposition.

 

[Usernamehere]

The fact DJ was shorter than anyone else at flyweight should factor into the p4p debate. He was always facing larger opponents, Jones is larger than almost all of his opposition.

I think it's very narrow minded to think height is always an advantage. I struggle more with mike Tyson type guys, than tall dudes. I'm 186 cm.

 

[Stagliano]

Jon Jones would still win

No human in history can defeat Jon Jones in a fight
Jones can easily defeat most fully grown adult animals too, including tigers, elephants, lions, bears etc
A silverback gorilla would be a very tough test for Jones, but with his fight IQ and grappling technique he can outsmart them and win

No need to troll. Jones could effectively beat any human being in a fist fight.

 

[Yep]

Yep

 

[GolovKing]

This is obviously just not true.... the fastest runners in the world are all under 210 lbs... and most are under 180... the best jumpers are like 6 ft 2 190 lbs...

There is no such thing as a 250 lb guy that is as athletic as the 190 lb guys... the freaks like Rob Gronkowski and JJ Watt aren't even close to as fast or athletic as the smaller guys they are huge though and almost close to as athletic so theose guys are probably the most freakish big guys of all time... and they aren't half the athletes of the smaller guys... dont be dumb

Has it ever occured to you that it isn't so much that a athlete like mighty mouse being bigger would instantly be less athletic and more so that athletes like mighty mouse don't hardly exist beyond a certain weight? They do exist though. Prime bo Jackson and prime hershell Walker were both about the same size as Jones for example yet they were both not only more powerful p4p but also faster, more agile and explosive than mighty mouse. You guys just make these bs claims that fighter x being bigger would instantly be less athletic and impressive as if you have some magical formula or something. Well how athletic would he be then? Would he be as athletic as Chris daukaus? As cyril gane?

 

[Yep]

I think it's very narrow minded to think height is always an advantage. I struggle more with mike Tyson type guys, than tall dudes. I'm 186 cm.

It’s not that it is always an advantage. Most people don’t have the coordination/control and/or knowledge to take advantage of their length. Even in the pros. Jon Jones is literally the best using his superior length. So when the person knows how to use their length it will always be an advantage and that’s not narrow minded. It’s just fact.

 

[AmonTobin]

I'm picturing DJ's brain in Ngannou's body... He would never be defeated.