International Active US Air Force member self-immolates outside Israel Embassy in Washington

[SmilinDesperado]

his position is that anyone under any circumstances is committing a logical fallacy if they change their positron after seeing this mans actions.

can you really concur with that in good conscience? there is NO qualifier here that they wont weigh the evidence BETTER as a result of seeing this btw. we're are taking about everyone on the planet here.... even autistic people..


so a person who weighed the evidence arbitrarily goes and looks more deeply and that is a logical fallacy?

come on man... you cant believe this and he has been given every opportunity to qualify his argument differently but out of pride he is sticking to it. ANYBODY who changes their position after this man's actions is committing logical fallacy.

I've given these kinds of examples to him. he has not changed his position based on them. they are not new. there are NO exceptions.


do you concur with his take still?

They are changing their position BECAUSE they saw the video?
If that's the case, you are not making an argument by showing me a video of a guy setting himself on fire and screaming "Free Palestine". You can pique my interest and make me wonder why he did that, thus making me research it, but it's just appealing to my emotions from seeing such a horrific thing committed by a young man.

I could eventually genuinely change my mind based on the research I did, but if it's just watching the video that changed my mind, then yes, I concur.
Again, for me, it's a silly question, because I wasn't really following your guys back and forth on this, so I don't know what the broader discussion/point was.

 

[terrapin]

They are changing their position BECAUSE they saw the video?
If that's the case, you are not making an argument by showing me a video of a guy setting himself on fire and screaming "Free Palestine". You can pique my interest and make me wonder why he did that, thus making me research it, but it's just appealing to my emotions from seeing such a horrific thing committed by a young man.

I could eventually genuinely change my mind based on the research I did, but if it's just watching the video that changed my mind, then yes, I concur.
Again, for me, it's a silly question, because I wasn't really following your guys back and forth on this, so I don't know what the broader discussion/point was.

no they are changing their position because they weighed the evidence differently inspired by his actions. the poser in question will make NO exceptions for this even after I have given many examples. its ALL logical fallacy. out of 7 billion people there are NO possible exceptions.

can you see how profoundly absurd this is?

and go read our exchanges. I've given him MANY opportunities to walk this back. and then people who have not read the exchanges have jumped on with him.

 

[DarthChen731]

Terrapin needs to just take this L and walk away, he looks more like a virgin with each post.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I stated ambiguity and was attacked for it. not the other way around.... the people who have attacked me have attacked with certainty. my position has ONLY been one of openness to the possibilities-- even the possibilities of those who have attacked me. I realize I mistook your position and you have already stated it is POSSIBLE that some good could come from his actions and that he was not crazy.

many people have claimed to know for an absolute fact that no good could come from this. that is the heart of why @Blayt7hh is falsely claiming logical fallacy. he is just trying to prove that NO good could have come from this man's actions as it would ALL be logical fallacy. an absurd position obviously.

many people have stated they know for a fact he was this or that. YOU have not and honestly if a person just says "this is my opinion" I don't even see the need to debate it with them. it is the certainly in the name of logic and reason that I always find myself disputing.

I also have NEVER stated anything about him as a fact in this thread unless I misspoke but in context no one could possibly think I do think that as I have directly contradicted that many times intentionally.

That's fair, but in fairness, you're not coming from this from an angle that most people are going to be used to talking about. I certainly didn't expect to have this kind of conversation in a thread about a guy setting himself on fire.
I don't think it's necessarily an issue of people being too close minded either.
And it sounds like the probable actual positions of people in here got lost in the topic, war room blood rage, and the delivery of the words.
Your angle/focus seems to be on ambiguity and keeping an open mind to the possible, which is fine, but it should be understandable that most people aren't going to find too many positive things in a guy setting himself on fire, and they're going to think he's crazy.
You're fighting that as if it's an absurd thing to assume. Even if you are right, the assumption isn't baseless, and like it or not, that's what most people are going to take from a story like this.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

no they are changing their position because they weighed the evidence differently inspired by his actions. the poser in question will make NO exceptions for this even after I have given many examples. its ALL logical fallacy. out of 7 billion people there are NO possible exceptions.

can you see how profoundly absurd this is?

and go read our exchanges. I've given him MANY opportunities to walk this back. and then people who have not read the exchanges have jumped on with him.

Not my fight, man. As I said, I wasn't following your conversation, and it is lengthy, and I'm not really interested in getting into it.

 

[terrapin]

That's fair, but in fairness, you're not coming from this from an angle that most people are going to be used to talking about. I certainly didn't expect to have this kind of conversation in a thread about a guy setting himself on fire.
I don't think it's necessarily an issue of people being too close minded either.
And it sounds like the probable actual positions of people in here got lost in the topic, war room blood rage, and the delivery of the words.
Your angle/focus seems to be on ambiguity and keeping an open mind to the possible, which is fine, but it should be understandable that most people aren't going to find too many positive things in a guy setting himself on fire, and they're going to think he's crazy.
You're fighting that as if it's an absurd thing to assume. Even if you are right, the assumption isn't baseless, and like it or not, that's what most people are going to take from a story like this.

This I can understand and it's a perfect post and even though we disagree somewhat I have nothing to argue with you about on this front now.

My position is accurate and yes it's true that most people don't come from that place, but it is my argument that they should because this kind of judgment and hatred is dividing all of us and causes pain and suffering on so many levels and it's displayed in nearly every topic we ever come across on sherdog or anywhere else.

It matters is my point. The truth matters and it's hard to come to when we just jump to emotionally charge opinions stated as absolutes.

Genuine intellectual discourses is impossible under these conditions

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Terrapin needs to just take this L and walk away, he looks more like a virgin with each post.

dude i have respect for people in here that can write these long posts and relentlessly keep defending their position with other long posts, cause i can't do that, i get bored very fast. i didn't read his posts but he was in another battle in this thread that kept going and going, and now he's in another. e-cardio, damn.

 

[DarthChen731]

dude i have respect for people in here that can write these long posts and relentlessly keep defending their position with other long posts, cause i can't do that, i get bored very fast. i didn't read his posts but he was in another battle in this thread that kept going and going, and now he's in another. e-cardio, damn.

I respect his CONVICTION for setting his virtual self on fire by being so passionately dense

 

[Blayt7hh]

^This dude is so far off topic it's unreal.

The topic is not "is there a possibility that people might research something if something happens", it's "is some white American kid setting himself on fire as a protest for Palestinians retarded?" and the answer is yes

Yeah since my last response to him he has now strawmanned me and moved the goal post. Honestly, if I thought he was a smarter man that knew logic I would begin to wonder if he was playing a game testing me to see if I could spot all of his fallacies. That brings it up to 6 or 7 in total now. Im not even sure anymore

 

[Blayt7hh]

its not a logical fallacy if a person is moved emotionally to weigh evidence BETTER. and what about an autistic person?

He's not given any argument for you to consider reweighing the evidence.

what if they see what this man did and change their mind after researching more because of what this man did but have no emotion at all around it?

That really just goes back to drawing attention to the topic. It's not him presenting any argument. This is a thing I said many times form my first post onward. Which I am now watching you lie to another poster about. I just linked that post in my last response to you, so I don't know why you think you can get away with this lie.

you said ANYONE would be committing a logical fallacy if they changed their based on what this man did....

Yes.

what if the person who changes their position had arrived at their initial position through emotion but because of this mans sacrifice (or stupidity)

Then they've doubled down and fell for the same logical fallacy twice. Just so you know, you can arrive at the "correct" conclusion and still have committed or fallen for a fallacy in the process.

do you think 7 billion people all came to an understanding through reason only and so cannot shift their perspective?

Don't even know what you're getting at here bud.

you have made an indefensible claim. funny how no one else seems to have the balls to call it out... maybe because they are on your side and are emotionally motivated.

No one is calling me out because I made a simple, demonstrably correct remark about it. Here you are again though generalizing and putting motivation into everyone else to explain it. Remember how I said you I had no doubt you would do it again in the future? Looks like it didn't take more than a few hours.

 

[method115]

He absolutely should be condemned, his wife and especially his kids have to live with this shit forever.

Do you have a source for this? I can't find any proof that he had a wife or kids.

 

[My Spot]

Do you have a source for this? I can't find any proof that he had a wife or kids.

Someone said he did earlier in this thread.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

- This is just a horrible way to go. No living creature deserves this destiny. I hate when this happen in comic-books or movies.
The guy was obviously mentally ill. No sane person would chose to go out this way. And sadly, this will change nothing.

 

[method115]

The guy was obviously mentally ill. No sane person would chose to go out this way. And sadly, this will change nothing.

My friend be prepared to have several people tell you how lighting yourself on fire which will not stop a conflict that has been going on since the day Israel was created does not make you insane.

I didn't even bother responding because it just felt like trying to convince a flat earther that they are wrong.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

My friend be prepared to have several people tell you how lighting yourself on fire which will not stop a conflict that has been going on since the day Israel was created does not make you insane.

I didn't even bother responding because it just felt like trying to convince a flat earther that they are wrong.

- I know. killing ourselves is unnatural. Dude is gonna be forgotten i a couple of weeks. only his family will remeber this.

 

[spamking]

If you go read my post history, it is very clear that I have not taken a definite position on this guy.

I've already said I'm not going to do that. I respond to what I quote.

 

[spamking]

I don't even begin to think I'm enlightened. I just think most of you guys are arguing just for your own self-centered opinions and have no ability to think beyond your own box.

it's a very small-minded way to discuss things.

Yes you do. You do to the point you are very clearly trying to tell the rest of us where we're coming from and why we're discussing this like we have been.

 

[terrapin]

Yes you do. You do to the point you are very clearly trying to tell the rest of us where we're coming from and why we're discussing this like we have been.

If you mean, I'm interested in finding out what the truth is and that it's important to make distinctions between fact and opinion. Yeah, I guess that means I'm trying to be enlightened.... Or maybe it's the not wanting to slander a person based on assumptions and avoid bearing false witness that makes me pretending I'm enlightened to you.

 

[spamking]

many people have claimed to know for an absolute fact that no good could come from this.

Why are you so desperate to assign a positive outcome for the actions of a crazy man?

 

[spamking]

If you mean, I'm interested in finding out what the truth is and that it's important to make distinctions between fact and opinion. Yeah, I guess that means I'm trying to be enlightened.... Or maybe it's the not wanting to slander a person based on assumptions and avoid bearing false witness that makes me pretending I'm enlightened to you.

I'm sure that's it . . .