All Time GOAT poll

wwkirk said:
Seems to me the “Is Jon GOAT” debate is getting stale. The reason is pretty easy to see. Fans who say PED violations disqualify a fighter from GOAT status reject Jon outright. Opposed to them are fans who say that Jon’s performance alone establishes that he is GOAT, regardless of PEDs.

(I’m talking about LHW GOAT or the more generic “one of the GOATs”. Either way as I’m framing it.)

So how about this:

Any Sherdoggers willing to say that PEDs are a negative, a mark against possible GOAT status, but that ON BALANCE, Jon is still GOAT?

Alternatively, any Sherdoggers who are honestly willing to overlook PED violations but say, “Hey, Jon STILL ain’t GOAT”?
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Peds don’t matter
 
Jon is the GOAT. I don't care about the PEDS or if any other fighter takes them, which is everybody.

Thousands upon thousands of fighters have used peds, yet there's only a handful of goats. They help but they don't win fights alone.
 
wwkirk said:
Seems to me the “Is Jon GOAT” debate is getting stale. The reason is pretty easy to see. Fans who say PED violations disqualify a fighter from GOAT status reject Jon outright. Opposed to them are fans who say that Jon’s performance alone establishes that he is GOAT, regardless of PEDs.

(I’m talking about LHW GOAT or the more generic “one of the GOATs”. Either way as I’m framing it.)

So how about this:

Any Sherdoggers willing to say that PEDs are a negative, a mark against possible GOAT status, but that ON BALANCE, Jon is still GOAT?

Alternatively, any Sherdoggers who are honestly willing to overlook PED violations but say, “Hey, Jon STILL ain’t GOAT”?
Click to expand...
Jones had the possibility of being the GOAT. The PEDs disqualifies him from ever being that, but besides that, the fact that he always fought so dirty is another mark against him. I know people will defend it, but the fact is - Jon is the only fighter in newer times that forced UFC to change their rules because he was fighting so dirty (I believe only 2 other fighters have the same honor - Keith Hackney and the nut shots on Joe Son, and Tank when he tried to throw his opponent over the top of the octagon).

Then the fact that Jon has had the physical advantage on all but maybe 1 of his opponents. This is not really Jon's fault - he is what scientists would come up with in a laboratory if they wanted to build the perfect fighter.

What Jon could do to prove himself in my eyes, is fight some worthy opponents at HW where his physical advantage wont be the determining factor in a fight. I am not really impressed with the Gane win - a wrestler against a point fighter with zero grappling skills*shrug*. Stipe is a fantastic fighter, and had it been 5-6 years ago, it would be a great match-up. Now Stipe has fought 4 times in 6 years - losing 2 of those fights.

Conspiracy theory : I have said this before, and here it is again - I believe Jon has been on steroids since he was a kid/teenager. We know both Jon's brothers make millions in the NFL, and got busted for juicing. With the way we know Jon, what is the chance he did not juice? Knowing his brothers, what is the chance they did not help him do it?
 
Oddmonster said:
Jones had the possibility of being the GOAT. The PEDs disqualifies him from ever being that, but besides that, the fact that he always fought so dirty is another mark against him. I know people will defend it, but the fact is - Jon is the only fighter in newer times that forced UFC to change their rules because he was fighting so dirty (I believe only 2 other fighters have the same honor - Keith Hackney and the nut shots on Joe Son, and Tank when he tried to throw his opponent over the top of the octagon).
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Strong points. I didn't realize how extreme it was.
 
wwkirk said:
Alternatively, any Sherdoggers who are honestly willing to overlook PED violations but say, “Hey, Jon STILL ain’t GOAT”?
Click to expand...
I don't really weigh drug violations in GOAT rankings. But Jon for me is the greatest LHW by a long shot, and a top 5 all timer. LHW is a garbage division, even when it was in a better place during Jones' early run. But the fact that Jones struggled so much with blown up MWs and mediocre LHWs at the end of his reign kind of speaks to the division's quality versus BW-LW (maybe WW).
 
JustOnce said:
he did though. Reyes did yes but he still beat Jones.
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nope, sorry, it's time to accept reality bud. Jones is undefeated and will retire as such. The only man who can beat him is himself.
 
Great performances, great resume, but the PED usage is undeniable and cannot be ignored.
 
I think he's incredibly skilled regardless of PEDs but cheating is cheating. It reflects poorly on your legacy. Regardless, he's not my personal pick for GOAT even ignoring PEDS
 
Jones is highly overrated and cheated many times. He's definitely not the goat.
 
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