All Time GOAT poll

[ferrisjso]

Smaller how? Shorter? Fedor weighed more than Jones ever did when he fought at 205. And besides, calling Fedor a small heavyweight may be true, but it overlooks the fact that the best heavyweights tend to be smaller, not the 295 pound monsters with muscles coming out of their ears. Stipe is around 235. Cormier was at his best at a lower weight before he ballooned up. Werdum was 240. Cain was 240. Couture was 220. Fedor doesn't get extra credit for being a smaller heavyweight because a lower weight isn't a determent at heavyweight.

Plus, "did a similar thing" is simplifying the argument to the point of evading it altogether. If we want to actually compare apples to apples, Jones is undefeated for 15 years with 27 wins and 15 title wins (and counting), while Fedor was undefeated for 9 years with 31 wins and 8 title wins. And after clearing out LHW multiple times over, Jones went up in weight and won the title there, too. He's fought nothing but the best fighters in the world for almost 15 years, and is so dominant that people call a close fight a win for the other guy, simply because Jones looked almost human and didn't 50-44 him.

Fedor was incredible, and the GOAT for a very long time. But in terms of resume and achievement, Jones has since surpassed him.

HW is the least skilled weight division so an elite guy at LHW and maybe even MW usually wins even if they are substantially smaller. Thats what we saw with DC IMO. But with Fedor MMA fighters were smaller in general. Fedor was DC size but his opponents typically weren't. I don't think he'd be at HW if he was starting out a few years ago.

 

[Oddmonster]

The timeline suggests no such thing in Jones’ case. You’re trying to fit a square peg in a round hole here.

If anything by your logic it makes less sense that new gloves were designed because of Jones. You’re asserting that Jones eye poked intentionally, told people that he was doing it on purpose, so they then changed the gloves. But…the gloves don’t prevent intentional eye pokes. They make it harder to do unintentionally. That makes it even more difficult to make the case that he caused the UFC to change the gloves.

No, you are refusing to accept that square pegs fit in square holes . Or, you accept it, except this one special square peg that will never fit in a square hole for some reason.

And it seems to me you are missing that they changed the finger rules over several steps, because it simply was not helping - Jon kept going. The END result was new gloves, but it was a long process of rule changes. I honestly thought you were aware of this, but it seems you are not?


And making gloves that would make eye pokes impossible would be boxing gloves.

 

[Striker Fox]

I agree with you.
To see who these people are, just look at the big goat thread or this one as well. Check the second post after your last one as an example. “Peds don’t teach you how to fight. Peds do not improve fight iq” and so on and so on.

I think they're clearly trolling tho. At least I hope so.

Their main point for believing he's GOAT is they tell themselves that everybody else was on steroids, even though in a pre USADA test at UFC 182, Jones' results were "highly suspicious" according to PED experts, while DC's came back "normal". Considering he popped as soon as USADA came in months later, it's clear the PED experts were correct that he was juiced up for DC at 182, like he was all 3 times he was scheduled to fight DC.

He was also still "pulsing" for some fights that are still considered a "win" on his resume.

 

[Davidjacksonjones]

Saint Jones has told me to respond to hate and anger with kindness and compassion. Hope you have a great day sir
Remember, holding on to anger and resentment elevates stress levels and drains you of happiness.

No one actually thinks this just bad trolls like that jacksonjones fukin moron

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

If Fedor used in Pride, it was LEGAL. As in - not cheating.

Ah I see. It doesnt exclude you from the GOAT discussion if you were using PEDs somewhere its literally impossible to get popped.

 

[Striker Fox]

Ah I see. It doesnt exclude you from the GOAT discussion if you were using PEDs somewhere its literally impossible to get popped.

But if you're assuming Fedor was using steroids, then you have to assume everybody else in PRIDE was as well. So he had no unfair advantage over opponents unlike Jones.

 

[icemun]

But if you're assuming Fedor was using steroids, then you have to assume everybody else in PRIDE was as well. So he had no unfair advantage over opponents unlike Jones.

If 8 of Jones opponents have popped.
Some from Pride where steroids were encouraged.

What do you think might be going on MMA, in general?

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

But if you're assuming Fedor was using steroids, then you have to assume everybody else in PRIDE was as well. So he had no unfair advantage over opponents unlike Jones.

How likely is it that Jones's opponents were actually clean on average though?

Obviously anyone competing at that level has access to PEDs and a clear motive for using them.

 

[icemun]

At the end of the day, jones fought guys that were on a massive downswing like rampage, who had lost to both Rashad and machida regardless of what the judges have to say, and after losing to jones didn’t win a single round against bader and glover before getting released

Machida the guy who weighed in at less than 205 pounds on multiple occasions, while jones is quoted as saying he weighed
224 against Rashad and 227 against Cormier the first time. Imagine having a 20 pound weight advantage against someone and counting it as some sort of amazing win, lol.

I don’t hate jones. He’s a very smart fighter, but liking someone style isn’t enough to give them the benefit of the doubt


Some people don’t care about massive weight differences, but my opinion is they matter and I don’t count wins like that, such as jan adesanya, gsp penn 2, basically every gastelum middleweight fight, edgar lightweight fights, jones vs machida Belfort and Rashad to an extent


That’s my opinion

Rashad and Lyoto had ONLY 1 career loss to newly crowned champions

Rashad and Shogun outweighed Jones who was 217lbs when he fought a 230lbs Shogun. Infact people on here were saying Jones was "scared" of Rashad, because Rashad held him down at Jacksons.

Rashad also won the HW Tuf effortlessly, hell DC won the Strikeforce HW Grandprix (that Fedor was clobbered in) without losing a round and later becoming a UFC HW champion.

3 of Jones opponents went on to become HW champions, a couple like Gus went on to fight HW.

So the "smaller" proposition just makes zero sense, he fought more guys that fought at HW than any other weight class.



and as far as guys being on the "downslide" when fighters like Rashad, Lytoto, Gus had 1 career loss to champions and Reyes, DC have zero losses, just doesnt make sense especially in comparison to fighters like-


martin lazarov (0-2)
levon lagilava (1-3)
hiroya takada (1-3)
mihail apostolov (0-1)
ryushi yanagisawa (24-25)
lee hasdell (9-14)
chris haseman (20-17)
gary goodridge (23-22)
yuji nagata (0-2)
naoya ogawa (7-2)
zulu (9-9)
hong man choi (4-5)
jaideep singh (2-3)

 

[RonDante]

Rashad and Lyoto had ONLY 1 career loss to newly crowned champions

Rashad and Shogun outweighed Jones who was 217lbs when he fought a 230lbs Shogun. Infact people on here were saying Jones was "scared" of Rashad, because Rashad held him down at Jacksons.

Rashad also won the HW Tuf effortlessly, hell DC won the Strikeforce HW Grandprix (that Fedor was clobbered in) without losing a round and later becoming a UFC HW champion.

3 of Jones opponents went on to become HW champions, a couple like Gus went on to fight HW.

So the "smaller" proposition just makes zero sense, he fought more guys that fought at HW than any other weight class.

View attachment 1032758

and as far as guys being on the "downslide" when fighters like Rashad, Lytoto, Gus had 1 career loss to champions and Reyes, DC have zero losses, just doesnt make sense especially in comparison to fighters like-


martin lazarov (0-2)
levon lagilava (1-3)
hiroya takada (1-3)
mihail apostolov (0-1)
ryushi yanagisawa (24-25)
lee hasdell (9-14)
chris haseman (20-17)
gary goodridge (23-22)
yuji nagata (0-2)
naoya ogawa (7-2)
zulu (9-9)
hong man choi (4-5)
jaideep singh (2-3)

Jon jones was asked how much he weighed when he fought Rashad evans and he said he weighed 224 pounds. In the bad blood promo for the first dc fight he said he weighed 227 pounds

Rashad said when he fought at light heavyweight he weighed between 210 and 215 pounds

So that’s a 9-14 pound weight advantage

Shogun rua was coming off his 3rd knee surgery in as many years in the months before he fought jones. He looked awful against Coleman who was returning from 2.5 years of retirement and gassed in the 1st round. His best win after jones was forrest, who he caught, and then he went 3-4-1 over the next 3 years, the one being a loss to henderson that should have been a draw

 

[RonDante]

Jon jones was asked how much he weighed when he fought Rashad evans and he said he weighed 224 pounds. In the bad blood promo for the first dc fight he said he weighed 227 pounds

Rashad said when he fought at light heavyweight he weighed between 210 and 215 pounds

So that’s a 9-14 pound weight advantage

Shogun rua was coming off his 3rd knee surgery in as many years in the months before he fought jones. He looked awful against Coleman who was returning from 2.5 years of retirement and gassed in the 1st round. His best win after jones was forrest, who he caught, and then he went 3-4-1 over the next 3 years, the one being a loss to henderson that should have been a draw

Also I don’t know why you’re bringing up fedor, I think he’s the most overrated fighter of all time

 

[Oddmonster]

Ah I see. It doesnt exclude you from the GOAT discussion if you were using PEDs somewhere its literally impossible to get popped.

Do you understand the difference between "cheating" and " not cheating"?

 

[Striker Fox]

If 8 of Jones opponents have popped.
Some from Pride where steroids were encouraged.

What do you think might be going on MMA, in general?

DC, Gus and Glover are Jones' top 3 opponents. None have ever popped, and none had a drop off when USADA entered the UFC.

At UFC 182 (pre USADA), Jones' tests were labeled "highly suspicious" by PED experts and the NSAC, while on the other hand stated DC tests were "normal". The fact that Jones later failed multiple PED drug tests every time he was scheduled to face DC, and DC passed all, it's safe to say Jones was juicing all 3 times he got scheduled to fight DC.

Fact is out of Jones' 6 wins under USADA, none were high caliber opponents like DC, prime Gus, or Glover.

OSP - meh
Gus - Jones was "pulsing" for at least this fight and Gus was clearly not the same ever again for whatever reason coming off the long layoff
Smith - meh
Santos - Santos had one good leg and Jones only got a split decision
Reyes - Jones was gifted the decision here if we're being honest
Gane - Waited for Ngannou to leave, then outgrappled a French kickboxer who was wrestlfucked by D1 Ngannou with one healthy knee. This coming after he was unable to do much grappling wise against Santos and Reyes.

 

[RemyR]

Jon Jones bless

 

[HHJ]

Ah I see. It doesnt exclude you from the GOAT discussion if you were using PEDs somewhere its literally impossible to get popped.

Of course not. If everyones allowed to use it it isnt CHEATING,doofus

 

[rstringer]

I think at this point it boils down to intelligence, not even cognitive dissonance.

If guys were openly taking steroids to fight for $700 a night, what do you think theyre doing for potentially millions?

Steroids were encouraged and distributed in Pride. You think your favorite fighter was the only natty one?

Pre-Usada everyone was taking, you think your favorite fighter was beating guys on gear and clean? Even with 4D delts?

8 of Jones opponents have popped, some pre-USADA, does that indicate something?


You literally have to be a naive child to still be clueless as to what is and has been going in MMA from the start (like all pro-sports)\


"My mommy says fighters dont take drugs and eat their broccoli and vitamins."

Khabib and GSP and DC most definitely were not on steroids.

And if that's your logic , then there is no GOAT period.

 

[rstringer]

Please present any bit of evidence you can that makes you think Jon Jones has been proven to use PEDs and then I will show you what an idiot you are.

Lol

The only thing one can do with such a stupid statement is to underline it.

 

[loisestrad]

It's a divided line between people who think failed PED tests should weigh against him and people who think failed PED tests don't matter.

As easy as this.

But here we are again, as people like to pretend they don't get it.

 

[James Eagle]

Because you beat the shit out of everyone

 

[Barteh]

Smaller how? Shorter? Fedor weighed more than Jones ever did when he fought at 205. And besides, calling Fedor a small heavyweight may be true, but it overlooks the fact that the best heavyweights tend to be smaller, not the 295 pound monsters with muscles coming out of their ears. Stipe is around 235. Cormier was at his best at a lower weight before he ballooned up. Werdum was 240. Cain was 240. Couture was 220. Fedor doesn't get extra credit for being a smaller heavyweight because a lower weight isn't a determent at heavyweight.

Plus, "did a similar thing" is simplifying the argument to the point of evading it altogether. If we want to actually compare apples to apples, Jones is undefeated for 15 years with 27 wins and 15 title wins (and counting), while Fedor was undefeated for 9 years with 31 wins and 8 title wins. And after clearing out LHW multiple times over, Jones went up in weight and won the title there, too. He's fought nothing but the best fighters in the world for almost 15 years, and is so dominant that people call a close fight a win for the other guy, simply because Jones looked almost human and didn't 50-44 him.

Fedor was incredible, and the GOAT for a very long time. But in terms of resume and achievement, Jones has since surpassed him.

Talking about comparing apples to oranges, but lying about the amount of years Jones was undefeated and including title wins but not grand prix wins.

Great example of the average Jones nut hugger. They need to lie about the numbers in order to have an argument.