International The US, Brazil, Europe and other major economies all pushing back against dumping by China

[MicroBrew]

- Brazil, UK, US are pushing back against Chinese dumping of green products.

- Some major economic powers accuse China of trying to undermine their domestic manufacturing by dumping. Chinese manufacturers have an unfair advantage in that they get tons of government subsidies.

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The China pushback uniting major world powers​

Why it matters: There's rising worldwide backlash against China's massively subsidized factory sector, which is producing more electric vehicles, solar panels and other products than its economy can absorb.

Major economic powers — from Europe to Brazil — have already embraced policies to prevent what they fear will be disastrous consequences for their domestic industries if a flood of China's products hit their shores.

Europe launched an anti-subsidy investigation into electric vehicles from China at the end of last year — with possible tariffs to follow. A top official warned of a "race to the bottom" in EV prices.

The U.K last month warned about China-made EVs, acknowledging the possibility of trade sanctions on imports. The nation is also considering measures to halt alleged dumping of electric bikes by China.

Officials in Brazil, Latin America's largest economy, also allege dumping tactics, with recent probes into the flow of low-price imports of industrial materials.

https://www.axios.com/2024/04/07/china-subsidies-green-tech

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I recal Elon saying that Chinese EVs are going to crush American EVs unless protectionist measures are put in place.

Back in the 70s the US accused Japanese TV manufacturers of dumping in the US.
Japanese Television Cartel

Japanese Television Cartel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1990/09/30/japan-and-the-big-squeeze/0fb1617e-8756-4390-a776-f1619d59869a/

EDIT
What the heck with the formatting since the forum changed. It removes the spaces between paragraphs.

 

[Hdfi]

Unproductive lazy westerners are complaining that China is producing "too much cheap goods" and kicking their asses in the free market? I guess you will need tariffs and protectionism to save your lazy ass.

 

[MicroBrew]

Unproductive lazy westerners are complaining that China is producing "too much cheap goods" and kicking their asses in the free market? I guess you will need tariffs and protectionism to save your lazy ass.

China doesn't need to spend much money on R & D, they just steal it from Japan and the West. Their government subsidies artifically lowers the price of their products.

Take away the I.P. theft and gov. subsidy and let's see how good their products are.

 

[Orgasmo]

Not surprised, Muricans get very sour when they can't compete. They made the same charge against Japan in the 1980's:

I guess the whole manufacturing reshoring thing went badly eh?

 

[Fluffernutter]

Subsidy Tracker

Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.

subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org

 

[Nameless King]

- Brazil, UK, US are pushing back against Chinese dumping of green products.

- Some major economic powers accuse China of trying to undermine their domestic manufacturing by dumping. Chinese manufacturers have an unfair advantage in that they get tons of government subsidies.

--

The China pushback uniting major world powers​

Why it matters: There's rising worldwide backlash against China's massively subsidized factory sector, which is producing more electric vehicles, solar panels and other products than its economy can absorb.

Major economic powers — from Europe to Brazil — have already embraced policies to prevent what they fear will be disastrous consequences for their domestic industries if a flood of China's products hit their shores.

Europe launched an anti-subsidy investigation into electric vehicles from China at the end of last year — with possible tariffs to follow. A top official warned of a "race to the bottom" in EV prices.

The U.K last month warned about China-made EVs, acknowledging the possibility of trade sanctions on imports. The nation is also considering measures to halt alleged dumping of electric bikes by China.

Officials in Brazil, Latin America's largest economy, also allege dumping tactics, with recent probes into the flow of low-price imports of industrial materials.

https://www.axios.com/2024/04/07/china-subsidies-green-tech

---

I recal Elon saying that Chinese EVs are going to crush American EVs unless protectionist measures are put in place.

Back in the 70s the US accused Japanese TV manufacturers of dumping in the US.
Japanese Television Cartel

Japanese Television Cartel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1990/09/30/japan-and-the-big-squeeze/0fb1617e-8756-4390-a776-f1619d59869a/

EDIT
What the heck with the formatting since the forum changed. It removes the spaces between paragraphs.

Who gives a damn about Musk. Guy is a clown, would rather buy cheap Chinese than any of his overpriced goods, or any western products for that matter.

 

[Scerpi]

Who gives a damn about Musk. Guy is a clown, would rather buy cheap Chinese than any of his overpriced goods, or any western products for that matter.

What a rational response…. lol

 

[MicroBrew]

Not surprised, Muricans get very sour when they can't compete. They made the same charge against Japan in the 1980's:

I guess the whole manufacturing reshoring thing went badly eh?

China engages in protectionism.

Taiwan grew pineappples that were delicious and popular on the mainland. Eventually a Chinese company stole the I.P. for the Taiwanese pineapples and starting growing their own. Yet the Chinese public still like the Taiwanese pineapples. The Chinese government then stepped in and banned Taiwanese pineapples.

 

[Orgasmo]

China engages in protectionism.

Taiwan grew pineappples that were delicious and popular on the mainland. Eventually a Chinese company stole the I.P. for the Taiwanese pineapples and starting growing their own. Yet the Chinese public still like the Taiwanese pineapples. The Chinese government then stepped in and banned Taiwanese pineapples.

You shouldn't throw stones in a glass house.

In trade wars of 200 years ago, the pirates were Americans

Intellectual pirates were celebrated in the young United States, just as they are now in China. A man who smuggled a cotton-processing machine from London was hailed by one Pennsylvania trade group as "the ingenious artizan who counterfeited the Carding and Spinning Machine" and was promised awards

apnews.com

How Industrial Espionage Started America's Cotton Revolution

To the British, Samuel Slater was ‘Slater the traitor,’ but to the Americans, he was the father of the American industrial revolution

www.smithsonianmag.com

Protectionism in America on JSTOR

Robert W. Merry, Protectionism in America, The National Interest, No. 146, AMERICA’S ASSAD QUANDARY (November/December 2016), pp. 28-36

www.jstor.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/17/the-united-states-of-subsidies-the-biggest-corporate-winners-in-each-state/

Sounds to me that you're throwing a hissy fit because you're losing.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

They should've given MacArthur free rein.

 

[Richmma80]

The US fucked up Japan's economy on purpose in the 90s because they were growing too fast. They can't do the same to China. They're already too big to fuck with. China is the biggest kid on the block.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

there's zero moral high ground in this. all countries use advantages to push their economy. even though i'm part of the euroatlantic world, i've no illusion how we got to dominate the world - plunder, murder, conquest, military presence.
and i'm fine to continue to use every advantage we can get to protect our position. but i'm not falling for the "woe is me the chinese are cheating" horseshit.
everybody who's smart is cheating.

 

[MicroBrew]

You shouldn't throw stones in a glass house.

In trade wars of 200 years ago, the pirates were Americans

Intellectual pirates were celebrated in the young United States, just as they are now in China. A man who smuggled a cotton-processing machine from London was hailed by one Pennsylvania trade group as "the ingenious artizan who counterfeited the Carding and Spinning Machine" and was promised awards

apnews.com

How Industrial Espionage Started America's Cotton Revolution

To the British, Samuel Slater was ‘Slater the traitor,’ but to the Americans, he was the father of the American industrial revolution

www.smithsonianmag.com

Protectionism in America on JSTOR

Robert W. Merry, Protectionism in America, The National Interest, No. 146, AMERICA’S ASSAD QUANDARY (November/December 2016), pp. 28-36

www.jstor.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/17/the-united-states-of-subsidies-the-biggest-corporate-winners-in-each-state/

Sounds to me that you're throwing a hissy fit because you're losing.

You are bringing up stuff from centuries ago. Heck with that logic why don't we justify China's genocide of certain minorities and territorial expansions since America did it to the natives.

As far as allowing foriegn competition, America is freer than China, because there are plenty of checks and balances here while the CCP, and Xi, dictates what is allowed in China.

America allows Chinese nationals to buy property here. China does not allow Americans to buy property there.

How is America losing? America leads the way in cutting edge tech. What CPU does China make that can compete with IBM or AMD? MS, Apple and Nivida are the top 3 most valuable companies in the world. Chinese manufacturing was essentially established by the West.

China's advantage is lower cost. People tend to gravitate towards the cheapest. That doesn't mean it's the best product.

 

[MicroBrew]

The US fucked up Japan's economy on purpose in the 90s because they were growing too fast. They can't do the same to China. They're already too big to fuck with. China is the biggest kid on the block.

China's economy is to a significant degree underpinned by real estate, which is a ponzi scheme. They built hundreds of thousands of homes that were garbage and remained empty, but it gave a false sense of economic growth.

China has at least 65 million empty homes - enough to house the population of France. It offers a glimpse into the country's massive housing-market problem.

China has at least 65 million empty homes — enough to house the population of France. It offers a glimpse into the country's massive housing-market problem.

In the US and Japan, abandoned homes have earned cities the titles of "ghost towns." But China's are different — they're not abandoned, just empty.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[ShadowRun]

there's zero moral high ground in this. all countries use advantages to push their economy. even though i'm part of the euroatlantic world, i've no illusion how we got to dominate the world - plunder, murder, conquest, military presence.
and i'm fine to continue to use every advantage we can get to protect our position. but i'm not falling for the "woe is me the chinese are cheating" horseshit.
everybody who's smart is cheating.

Very cheap labor too

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

China's economy is to a significant degree underpinned by real estate, which is a ponzi scheme. They built hundreds of thousands of homes that were garbage and remained empty, but it gave a false sense of economic growth.

China has at least 65 million empty homes - enough to house the population of France. It offers a glimpse into the country's massive housing-market problem.

China has at least 65 million empty homes — enough to house the population of France. It offers a glimpse into the country's massive housing-market problem.

In the US and Japan, abandoned homes have earned cities the titles of "ghost towns." But China's are different — they're not abandoned, just empty.

www.businessinsider.com

Nothing to worry then, China will just collapse.

 

[Kassitus]

Nothing wrong with subsidizing, nothing wrong with tarrifs either. Play ball, boys.

 

[BearGrounds]

Why it matters: There's rising worldwide backlash against China's massively subsidized factory sector, which is producing more electric vehicles, solar panels and other products than its economy can absorb.

Buying your "save the environment" products from China is just fucking hilarious.

These climate change zealots are such marks.

 

[Richmma80]

China's economy is to a significant degree underpinned by real estate, which is a ponzi scheme. They built hundreds of thousands of homes that were garbage and remained empty, but it gave a false sense of economic growth.

China has at least 65 million empty homes - enough to house the population of France. It offers a glimpse into the country's massive housing-market problem.

China has at least 65 million empty homes — enough to house the population of France. It offers a glimpse into the country's massive housing-market problem.

In the US and Japan, abandoned homes have earned cities the titles of "ghost towns." But China's are different — they're not abandoned, just empty.

www.businessinsider.com

They got problems, but they got less problems than us.

 

[Orgasmo]

You are bringing up stuff from centuries ago. Heck with that logic why don't we justify China's genocide of certain minorities and territorial expansions since America did it to the natives.

As far as allowing foriegn competition, America is freer than China, because there are plenty of checks and balances here while the CCP, and Xi, dictates what is allowed in China.

America allows Chinese nationals to buy property here. China does not allow Americans to buy property there.

How is America losing? America leads the way in cutting edge tech. What CPU does China make that can compete with IBM or AMD? MS, Apple and Nivida are the top 3 most valuable companies in the world. Chinese manufacturing was essentially established by the West.

China's advantage is lower cost. People tend to gravitate towards the cheapest. That doesn't mean it's the best product.

Essentially you're saying "do as I say, not as I did". It's actually very typical of Muricans after you lied, stole and cheated your way to the top. Now that China is using the same playbook, you get your panties in a bunch.

Funny thing is I'm actually okay with unscrupulous practices in geopolitics/economics. The only problem I have is the fact that you try to claim moral high ground. It's like a whore advertising virginity. Just stop.

PS: I worked for Concord Pacific in the early 2010's and we marketed plenty of residential properties in China to Canadian and American buyers. I worked in Hong Kong, Shanghai and Guangzhou for almost a year living in company owned condos. Check your facts.

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