Can we all agree Usman is a superior WW to St. Pierre?

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I like usman, but theres always recency bias here. Usman barely actually wrestles anybody. Its all pressure and clinchwork with good cardio. Which is good too, but wrestling isnt his strongest point.
 
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Let’s be honest... Usman has been FLAWLESS in the UFC.

GSP tapping to strikes from Matt Serra and putting on some of the most boring title fights against subpar competition in company history is just flat out embarrassing.


The only people still clinging on to the notion that GSP is in anyway as good as Usman are Canadians and lowkey goofy “white hope’ers”.


Usman >>>>> GSP


Stay mad Sherdog.


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You cant argue resume, but there's definitely an argument Usman is more skilled.
 
I like usman, but theres always recency bias here. Usman barely actually wrestles anybody. Its all pressure and clinchwork with good cardio. Which is good too, but wrestling isnt his strongest point.
He wrestles man. Even in the Jorge fight he tried to wrestle.
 
That last bit works both ways. A longer road to titles means that the guys who are elite will have less time to earn accolades and major accomplishments, but it also means they get more time to develop their skills.
That's true, but Usman (or any other champion) not having as many title defenses as those who got a TS early in their career (and won the title) is in itself nothing where i'll say they're necessarily worse than those champions with more defenses due to earlier winning the title.

For example if Usman at one point is 19-2 in the UFC (i think that's GSP's UFC record) i wouldn't mind rating him as high as GSP even with less title defenses due to a later TS, *if* i consider it to be the case that his level of competition during this run is comparable to GSP's.

(In reality i'd also include to an extent how they'd do against each other prime for prime, but that's another issue.)
 
They are both legendary fighters, but in my opinion Pierre will be stronger
 
GSP demonstrated advanced fighting ability in all realms of fighting by the unified rules set. The fight strategies became very conservative after the Hughes and Serra loss, so the finishes weren't there, no big deal. If Usman can get like 7 or 8 title defenses I would say 100% he surpasses GSP as far as GOAT WW and I would also thing that his skillset would surpass GSP's by that time. He would have the edge for being undefeated in the UFC and never losing the title, so matching or surpassing isn't needed for me personally.
 
Prime for prime, GSP picks Usman apart. Now? Hard to say for sure but Usman probably wins.
 
I mean while Georges was decisioning Dan Hardy and Jake Shields back in his prime, today we have Usman finishing Colby, Burns and breaking Woodley(when Tyron was thought to be unbeatable).

Usman is a better wrestler with a better chin and has way more power than Georges. I don’t see Suburb-Jorge being able to do anything different in the
upcoming/unnecessary rematch.

You can not convince me that there is one person out there who legitimately does not think Usman would absolutely mop the floor with St. Pierre.

Usman is just a better, badder version.

Do you really expect to get consensus on something that is debatable (and fundamentally untestable unless you have a time machine) on Sherdog? That's like expecting to find consensus on what's the best rock band, or the best action movie, or the best comic book hero, or the best TV show. I admire your optimism, but think you're in for dissappointment.

Me, I think its only possible to objectively compare how they did against the best of their time (at least until we have time machines), and both come out looking very good by that score. I'd be thrilled to have either of their careers personally.

Unless you mean if they fought today, when GSP is an old man with one fight in seven years. Any top 10 WW easily beats GSP today, including still active guys he beat when he was active. Retired guys simply lose to much timing, conditioning, reflexes and reactions to beat good active guys. Only his craziest fans think 40 year old, one fight in seven years GSP is still what he once was.

If you mean untestable statements about who would win, I think prime Royce Gracie beats both at the same time (possibly with one arm tied behind his back), because its impossible to prove an untestable statement false. And the more untestable the statement, the more confident I can become about making it.
 
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This thread will end like the Woodley greatest WW ever thread, after Usman lost a fight
 
Yeah..I mean I’m not even one of the guys on here that shits on usman. I think at some point he’ll be highly regarded in the all time discussion.

But GSP’s wrestling was the strongest in a division chalked full of ground guys.

Usmans greatest wrestling challenges have all been stand up battles. And we haven’t really seen him “wrestle” a wrestler.

Meanwhile GSP was judo throwing, tripping, and double legging guys like Matt hughes
Strongest? GSP was AFRAID to take Jake Shields down.

Usman would have smashed Shields thru the floor. If you really want to debate, tell me what about GSP wrestling is better than Usman’s? Hell, watch Diego in his prime take down Nick Diaz and rain down ground and pound and then watch GSP do nothing but hold Nick.
 
They are both very equally skilled. The key separating factor is CHIN and TOUGHNESS, which Usman is superior in.

prime for prime, usman would win a UD or tko georges after he breaks him mentally.
@Zebra Cheeks ...is everybody(and there are a many) that think Usman would smash GSP trolling??
 
Do you really expect to get consensus on something that is debatable (and fundamentally untestable unless you have a time machine) on Sherdog? That's like expecting to find consensus on what's the best rock band, or the best action movie, or the best comic book hero, or the best TV show. I admire your optimism, but think you're in for dissappointment.

Me, I think its only possible to objectively compare how they did against the best of their time (at least until we have time machines), and both come out looking very good by that score. I'd be thrilled to have either of their careers personally.

Unless you mean if they fought today, when GSP is an old man with one fight in seven years. Any top 10 WW easily beats GSP today, including still active guys he beat when he was active. Retired guys simply lose to much timing, conditioning, reflexes and reactions to beat good active guys. Only his craziest fans think 40 year old, one fight in seven years GSP is still what he once was.

If you mean untestable statements about who would win, I think prime Royce Gracie beats both at the same time (possibly with one arm tied behind his back), because its impossible to prove an untestable statement false. And the more untestable the statement, the more confident I can become about making it.
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Let’s be honest... Usman has been FLAWLESS in the UFC.

GSP tapping to strikes from Matt Serra and putting on some of the most boring title fights against subpar competition in company history is just flat out embarrassing.


The only people still clinging on to the notion that GSP is in anyway as good as Usman are Canadians and lowkey goofy “white hope’ers”.


Usman >>>>> GSP


Stay mad Sherdog.


1301495826.0.jpg
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Strongest? GSP was AFRAID to take Jake Shields down.

Usman would have smashed Shields thru the floor. If you really want to debate, tell me what about GSP wrestling is better than Usman’s? Hell, watch Diego in his prime take down Nick Diaz and rain down ground and pound and then watch GSP do nothing but hold Nick.
And who has been a strong wrestler that Usman has wrestled that would indicate he’d fight shields any differently? He’s only boxed all the best wrestlers he’s fought.
 
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And who has been a strong wrestler that Usman has wrestled that would indicate he’d fight shields any differently? He’s only boxed all the best wrestlers he’s fought.
Wait so Woodley(who was undefeated for years when Usman fought him) is not a strong wrestler??

{<doc}

Ok there. Woodley is WAY better wrestler than ANYBODY GSP faced. Go ahead and rip on Tyron now because he is obviously not the same mentally but Tyron blew away the best wrestler GSP ever beat in Kos.
 
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