How common is this in modern BJJ comps?

[Esile]

I would change the rules so that pulling guard is a 1 point deduction and if someone can pick you up from guard above waist level he gets 3 points (but he is still not allowed to slam you).

This way you have a ruleset that discourage habits that are not suited for real combat and make the sport pretty ridicolous in the eyes of most people, while still protecting the competitor's safey.

If someone pulls guard directly into a succesfull sweep there should be no point deduction however.

 

[lechien]

Didn’t say you could win by a throw.
You also can’t win from pulling guard either

Submission match?
If you want to ban guard pull, go JUDO.

 

[Quebec Nick]

I’ve never done a takedown that landed me in guard so not sure what you’re talking about.

So people just fall on their back, stop reacting and wait for you to take side control??? No scrambles, when I get taken down, after some point I stop fighting the takedown at all cost and look to make sure that I'm not passed after the takedown.

Single leg you will most surely end up in an half guard, same thing with ankle picks and most takedowns that you control only one leg

From a double leg, you can get ''reguarded'' pretty easily during the bounce after the throw

Fireman carry it's pretty hard to reguard but you can turtle and sit back in guard

Most head and neck judo throws will land you in scarfhold but a good BJJ guy can easily scramble to the back or at least make take you back in an half guard during the scramble.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I don't consider that a good rule either tbh, for the same reasons. It's even worse in judo. Just twists the whole spirit of the thing into something ugly.

It's a concession in scoring consistency in an attempt to encourage match behavior so maybe the lesser of two evils. Turtling in Judo is an abomination and at least from the recent Olympics Judo matches I watched on replay, they deserved to be shown at 2:00 am with no one else watching. But the slip rule in wrestling is more defensible in principle because it's a concession to the attacker. Turtling in Judo is primarily an issue when uke gets thrown but goes to turtle to deny throw points and then waits for standup. The same strategy exists in the international styles and is even worse in Greco because top man is restricted from attacking leg rides, cross-ankles or leg lace turns.

Scoring systems based on pins/back exposure make turtling/giving up back to opponent unavoidable in wrestling and Judo but under any wrestling ruleset you will at least score some points for throwing opponent onto his stomach. The prevalence of turtling in Judo makes the case for bringing back yukos and kokas and awarding them for throwing uke into turtle.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Guard pulling counts as getting taken down in UWW grappling.
What is funny that you flop without contact and butt scoot there and the opponent only gets the 2 when he mans up and decides to pass.

That's pretty cool and is a fair and rationale way to score it. But what always confuses me is why more BJJ guys don't learn and go for sacrifice throws. I've rolled with plenty of BJJ guys that are great at pulling/jumping guard, stabilizing and then going for a sweep. All it would take is a few minor tweaks and they could be going for tomoe nage off the bat. I get they'd score the same 2 points regardless but it would be a much cleaner way of getting to the same result while avoiding a "guard pull" because it would count as a TD attempt.

 

[TheMaster]

Most head and neck judo throws will land you in scarfhold but a good BJJ guy can easily scramble to the back or at least make take you back in an half guard during the scramble.

Actually no. Most of these throws are usually done with Tori remaining standing.

I can choose to follow you down. If I turn it into a slam yes you will often end in scarfold and could scramble of you're not winded.
If there is no slam though then I could adjust as you land and choose where to follow you down. North south or side control and the easiest immediate transitions to take as you land.
With slight modification (and generally banned in Judo) you can also be thrown on your head rather than flat on your back.

 

[Seefoo]

Aren't Imanari Rolls and Ashi slides considered Guard pulls as well?

 

[mattemate]

I’d be in favor of just giving a point to the opponent for pulling guard in the same weight class (allow pulling in absolute though). If you're truly better on the ground you’ll hit a sweep and still be up on points. If you sub them even better. In the case in the video above it wouldn’t have made a difference either way since the guard puller quickly hooked the guy trying to mock him. Might be an unpopular opinion but hey I stand by it.

How about just call it an advantage?

 

[RemyR]

How about just call it an advantage?

im ok with that too and some comps out here do that already. I do think a full point would be more logical though. TBH it’s pretty easy to score an advantage from guard in the gi.

 

[lechien]

Didn’t say you could win by a throw.
You also can’t win from pulling guard either

If it is a submission only match, who cares about your throws if they don't count?
Go play Judo instead and leave this topic alone.

 

[lechien]

im ok with that too and some comps out here do that already. I do think a full point would be more logical though. TBH it’s pretty easy to score an advantage from guard in the gi.

It will not matter at all.
The guard game was the meta already, the double guard pull in the lighter weight category. Ibjjf gave an advantage if someone stood up in hope it would resolve the issue.
In Adcc they penalise guard pull after 10 minutes, yet you see player pulling guard in specific time to avoid the penalty. .
With knee reaping and heel hook being the new meta, guard is where you want to be.
The more restrictions you had to jiu jitsu would just be like Judo.
In judo they ban guard pull and closed guard. If you can lift someone in a closed guard, it is a restart to neutral stand up. because it means you could have slammed him.

 

[rmongler]

It's a concession in scoring consistency in an attempt to encourage match behavior so maybe the lesser of two evils.

That is the sales pitch, yes: im just not buying it.

Making a hash out of scoring consistency in order to encourage better behavior in some area, generally results in even worse behavior in some other area. You see it happen every time.

 

[Chandler sama]

I'd prefer a shot clock on guard pulling. After you pull guard you get 30 sec to get an advantage, if you can't get the Adv in that time you lose 2 points. If you don't think you can do it you have the option to stand up and reset the clock. Of course if you can get the Adv you can stay down as long as you want.

This should create more action on the ground as well as encourage people to work on getting up/holding people down. It still allows people to pull guard, but it doesn't allow them to stall out the match.

 

[yetanother]

I'd prefer a shot clock on guard pulling. After you pull guard you get 30 sec to get an advantage, if you can't get the Adv in that time you lose 2 points. If you don't think you can do it you have the option to stand up and reset the clock. Of course if you can get the Adv you can stay down as long as you want.

This should create more action on the ground as well as encourage people to work on getting up/holding people down. It still allows people to pull guard, but it doesn't allow them to stall out the match.

This would just encourage more stalling from the top guy.

 

[Seefoo]

Howabout people just learn how to pass Guards in sport BJJ? If you're going to compete in the sport, the least you could do is learn how to do that.

 

[Badger67]

Howabout people just learn how to pass Guards in sport BJJ? If you're going to compete in the sport, the least you could do is learn how to do that.

Some of us can pass guard and still hate guard pullers. For me i like to smash pass soooo unless they are:
1. Significantly better than me in rank,
Or
2. Amazeballs at sweeps and subs,
More often than not my life got made easier by them guard pulling.

 

[Seefoo]

Some of us can pass guard and still hate guard pullers. For me i like to smash pass soooo unless they are:
1. Significantly better than me in rank,
Or
2. Amazeballs at sweeps and subs,
More often than not my life got made easier by them guard pulling.

If passing guard isn't a problem, then why hate Guard pullers? They just gave you the advantage.

 

[Badger67]

If passing guard isn't a problem, then why hate Guard pullers? They just gave you the advantage.

Principle. Learn take downs and not drop to your ass. I find it insulting in a combat sport that one would would actively avoid a major part of it. Most people who pull guard suck at takedowns and are afraid of them i have found in my experiences. Like when people cry about foot or wrist locks etc, boo hoo. Learn them, use them.

Edit: i come from a wrestling/judo background, and my bjj club is carlson gracie style. Butt scooting and guard pulling is not in our vocabulary. I also find it lame you cant slam in bjj...

 

[Chandler sama]

This would just encourage more stalling from the top guy.

That is the point. It would encourage people to learn how to control people on the ground and how to stand back up. If you can\t get anything going on the ground after 30 sec and you can't stand up, the top person is controlling you. They should be rewarded for that since the bottom player pulled guard to flee from standing grappling exchanges. If the bottom player can generate offense or escape from the bottom then there is no problem.

 

[ChickenBrother]

That is the point. It would encourage people to learn how to control people on the ground and how to stand back up. If you can\t get anything going on the ground after 30 sec and you can't stand up, the top person is controlling you. They should be rewarded for that since the bottom player pulled guard to flee from standing grappling exchanges. If the bottom player can generate offense or escape from the bottom then there is no problem.

This makes complete sense to me. The rationale for rewarding TDs is that you're imposing your will on your opponent and putting him in an inferior position (same rationale for rewarding sweeps). If you pull guard but can't mount any offense within a reasonable amount of time, it's clear you only pulled guard to avoid giving up TD points in the first place.