Should we get rid of belts in bjj?

Evenflow80

Purple Belt
@purple
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I've been genuinely thinking about this a lot lately

I feel like they take more than what they give. For example if you get a black belt, you feel this intense pressure to perform and the expectation is you should easily be able to handle most colored belts and fall asleep while tapping whites or blues.

There doesn't seem to be an * next to any of these statements. Doesn't matter if that white belt has 100lb on you or is 10 years younger, as a brown or black belt, you should be in control 100% and tap them at will at any time.

It also creates this weird heirchies that shouldn't be there. For example, I intentionally get late to some evening classes because the coach makes us line up in rows by belt rank and always waves me over to his bb line so we can face the class. It's weird to do that when many of the lower ranked people I'm facing kick my ass when we roll.

On top of all that, they are largely meaningless. Are they supposed to signify skill? Knowledge? Simply time you've trained and nothing else? I got my belt just due to attendance and consistently coming I'm 4 to 5 times a week for a little over 7 years. Boom heres your black belt.

But in another academy , I might have done the same and still be purple or brown

So which one are you in that case?

To me , I love no gi for a lot of reasons but mainly because there are no visible belts. There are a few people that wear colored rash guards to signify their belt , but for the most part everyone wears natural or black rash guards .

What are your thoughts? Do you think taking away belts or ranks or promotions of any type will make the sport less motivating or appealing ?
 
I've been genuinely thinking about this a lot lately

I feel like they take more than what they give. For example if you get a black belt, you feel this intense pressure to perform and the expectation is you should easily be able to handle most colored belts and fall asleep while tapping whites or blues.

There doesn't seem to be an * next to any of these statements. Doesn't matter if that white belt has 100lb on you or is 10 years younger, as a brown or black belt, you should be in control 100% and tap them at will at any time.

It also creates this weird heirchies that shouldn't be there. For example, I intentionally get late to some evening classes because the coach makes us line up in rows by belt rank and always waves me over to his bb line so we can face the class. It's weird to do that when many of the lower ranked people I'm facing kick my ass when we roll.

On top of all that, they are largely meaningless. Are they supposed to signify skill? Knowledge? Simply time you've trained and nothing else? I got my belt just due to attendance and consistently coming I'm 4 to 5 times a week for a little over 7 years. Boom heres your black belt.

But in another academy , I might have done the same and still be purple or brown

So which one are you in that case?

To me , I love no gi for a lot of reasons but mainly because there are no visible belts. There are a few people that wear colored rash guards to signify their belt , but for the most part everyone wears natural or black rash guards .

What are your thoughts? Do you think taking away belts or ranks or promotions of any type will make the sport less motivating or appealing ?
1) It sounds like you're at a McDojo (e.g., here's a black belt for attendance)
2) You can just go roll no-gi and there's no belt system
 
I've been genuinely thinking about this a lot lately

I feel like they take more than what they give. For example if you get a black belt, you feel this intense pressure to perform and the expectation is you should easily be able to handle most colored belts and fall asleep while tapping whites or blues.

There doesn't seem to be an * next to any of these statements. Doesn't matter if that white belt has 100lb on you or is 10 years younger, as a brown or black belt, you should be in control 100% and tap them at will at any time.

It also creates this weird heirchies that shouldn't be there. For example, I intentionally get late to some evening classes because the coach makes us line up in rows by belt rank and always waves me over to his bb line so we can face the class. It's weird to do that when many of the lower ranked people I'm facing kick my ass when we roll.

On top of all that, they are largely meaningless. Are they supposed to signify skill? Knowledge? Simply time you've trained and nothing else? I got my belt just due to attendance and consistently coming I'm 4 to 5 times a week for a little over 7 years. Boom heres your black belt.

But in another academy , I might have done the same and still be purple or brown

So which one are you in that case?

To me , I love no gi for a lot of reasons but mainly because there are no visible belts. There are a few people that wear colored rash guards to signify their belt , but for the most part everyone wears natural or black rash guards .

What are your thoughts? Do you think taking away belts or ranks or promotions of any type will make the sport less motivating or appealing ?

Dude cut yourself some slack. You went from what sounds like a total McDojo to one of the toughest shark tanks in the world - of course you're going to feel like a small fish in a big pond starting out. That said, it sounds like your belt imposter syndrome is detracting from your training experience and that sucks.

I don't think BJJ should get rid of belts. The belt system warts and all has tradition behind it and a BJJ belt promotion means something. But the presumption a higher belt should always beat a lower belt or that there's a mystical level up at each belt is lame. Training is training and some guys are studs regardless of belt color.

What I think is broken is the IBJJF competition system. Maybe that worked when BJJ was a niche sport and practitioners typically started as adults. But BJJ is mainstream now and it's common for kids to start at 5 or 6 and train to adulthood, just like elite competitors in Judo and wrestling. But we still have 5 separate "world champs" in BJJ delineated by arbitrary distinctions in skill level, with elite blue belts often having trained for 10+ years and able to handle hobbyist BBs. It's time for BJJ to follow other mainstream combat sports and have one world champ. Make the senior bracket open to purple and up with local and regional tournaments having a novice division for whites and blues. That would eliminate sandbagging and mitigate belt anxiety across belt colors.

Also kids orange or green belts should get automatic purple at 16 with kids gray or yellow getting adult blue. And pulling guard without giving up points is fake and gay.
 
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they should just get rid of the black belt. Instead after brown you would go back to white belt and have to work your way up the ranks again
 
Belts in bjj exist so dojo owners can keep getting paid.
 
I don't think so but I think everyone should recognize there's a difference between someone of the same belt that competes and someone that does not.
 
It doesn't matter to me. Combat sports without belt (like wrestling) produce great talents and combat sports where you actually get de-ranked for losing (like sumo) do to. And so do the ones with belts. So if it doesn't affect the quality either way, i don't care.
 
I don’t think so, at least for competitive reasons, it allows people to test themselves against people who in theory are at the same level. Without belts you’ll get people who are a few months into training vs someone who has 10+ years..

that said if you don’t compete it shouldn’t be that big of a deal to you
 
I think you're obsessing over something that's mostly in your head, anyone who trains bjj for any longer period knows that rolling isn't the only criteria that should judge someone on, I've always been quite strong and have been studying leg locks extensively for years, I tapped many good purple belts when I was a white belt and a number of black belts (including my instructor who's a legit 1st degree black belt under Braulio) when I was a blue belt and as much as it's always satisfying , it doesn't mean much and certainly didn't diminish any of them in my eyes. There's more to bjj that who tapped who , belt system should be a guide on how well you understand the game, not how many times you can tap the lower belt or be tapped by higher belt.
 
I don’t think so, at least for competitive reasons, it allows people to test themselves against people who in theory are at the same level. Without belts you’ll get people who are a few months into training vs someone who has 10+ years..

that said if you don’t compete it shouldn’t be that big of a deal to you

I think it's the opposite. IMO separate competition belt divisions feed the bullshido that a belt promotion is a "level up" that should make you automatically better than lower belts. It doesn't work that way and never has. Maybe that "blue belt" was a D1 AA or on the national Judo team. Or maybe he's just a sexual tyrannosaurus with a 12" dong after only 3 years of training. It happens.

Belt divisions might make sense if uniform skill levels were enforced across all gyms. But they're not, not even within the same gym. Our gym has some killer blues who have been blue for 3+ years. They compete regularly and one of them taps stud browns and even some BBs in training. And these aren't even elite guys (although the best one might be). At the last promotion day, the head instructor left them at blue because "they need to win more competitions to prove they deserve purple." What the actual fuck. So you have guys who have proved beyond any reasonable doubt every day in practice that they've already achieved purple proficiency (by the standards of their own gym) but are being kept at blue?

And it drives player mentality as well. I've heard many times, "I'll probably get promoted this year, so I should get in better shape and compete now while I'm still competitive at white/blue/purple." That's some slack-jawed shit and precisely the opposite of what a competitor mindset should be.

Novices should be protected from experienced competitors and that's what novice/white belt division is for. But the standard for competition blue and up has risen way past that. Dedicated competitors are probably sandbagged 2 belts vs. regular schmoes at the same belt.
 
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I've been genuinely thinking about this a lot lately

I feel like they take more than what they give. For example if you get a black belt, you feel this intense pressure to perform and the expectation is you should easily be able to handle most colored belts and fall asleep while tapping whites or blues.

There doesn't seem to be an * next to any of these statements. Doesn't matter if that white belt has 100lb on you or is 10 years younger, as a brown or black belt, you should be in control 100% and tap them at will at any time.

It also creates this weird heirchies that shouldn't be there. For example, I intentionally get late to some evening classes because the coach makes us line up in rows by belt rank and always waves me over to his bb line so we can face the class. It's weird to do that when many of the lower ranked people I'm facing kick my ass when we roll.

On top of all that, they are largely meaningless. Are they supposed to signify skill? Knowledge? Simply time you've trained and nothing else? I got my belt just due to attendance and consistently coming I'm 4 to 5 times a week for a little over 7 years. Boom heres your black belt.

But in another academy , I might have done the same and still be purple or brown

So which one are you in that case?

To me , I love no gi for a lot of reasons but mainly because there are no visible belts. There are a few people that wear colored rash guards to signify their belt , but for the most part everyone wears natural or black rash guards .

What are your thoughts? Do you think taking away belts or ranks or promotions of any type will make the sport less motivating or appealing ?
The question is also who is we (you) and why did you think you have the authority to change the belt system or get rid of it in an established martial art?

It's how it works and is the mark of knowledge and experience in BJJ and Judo. Whether that translates to competition ability is another issue which is what you are trying to get at but it still represents something.

You can always do nogi but with gi it would be ridiculous to try to have no belt colors.
 
I am biased, but I prefer Judo's way of handling belts. BJJ puts too much emphasis on each belt level, IMO. This is good if you want to have more tournament divisions to make more money, though.

Belts definitely serve a purpose, though. Getting rid of them would be weird, though I agree that they aren't essential for any combat sport.
 
I swear some of you actively strive to be miserable. I like belts, they're fun. If you don't, then good for you, do no gi, or wrestling, or whatever else will satisfy your obsession with not having a cool ass belt to show off to people.
 
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