Economy Minimum wage debate: States make their own increases (Post #340)

[Arkain2K]

There still will likely be a lot more increases in individual states with the way the trend is going. I honestly don’t get when California isn’t even at $15 yet with dominance in their state government that we should somehow force them and every other state to all go above their baseline. I think the original push for this had it phase in by 2024. It all just seems like pandering to me tbh (or I would at least hope).

Ofcourse it's pandering. Why else would a decidedly State issue be discussed fruitlessly in DC?

Every year, we will see more States vote for their own minimum wage increases that's specifically suitable for them, the way it should be.

A few pages back I asked everyone who are against voting for their own State's minimum wage (like all the states in the quoted article), and pretty much the only answer I've got so far is that "democracy doesn't work", even when it works.

State Minimum Wages
1/8/2021

​

Currently, 29 states and D.C. have minimum wages above the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.

Five states have not adopted a state minimum wage: Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee. Two states, Georgia and Wyoming, have a minimum wage below $7.25 per hour. In all seven of these states, the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour applies.

2020 Highlights

• Twenty-one states began 2020 with higher minimum wages. Seven states (Alaska, Florida, Minnesota, Montana, Ohio, South Dakota, and Vermont) automatically increased their rates based on the cost of living, while 14 states (Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, and Washington) increased their rates due to previously approved legislation or ballot initiatives.
• Florida voters approved Amendment 2, raising the state minimum wage to $15.00 per hour by 2026. The amendment raises the minimum wage to $10.00 per hour effective September 2021, with a continuing annual increase until reaching $15.00 per hour.

2019 Highlights

• Eighteen states began the new year with higher minimum wages. Eight states (Alaska, Florida, Minnesota, Montana, New Jersey, Ohio, South Dakota and Vermont) automatically increased their rates based on the cost of living, while 10 states (Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Maine, Massacusetts, Missouri, New York, Rhode Island and Washington) increased their rates due to previously approved legislation or ballot initiatives. Other states that will see rate increases during the 2019 calendar year include D.C., Delaware, Michigan and Oregon.
• New Jersey enacted AB 15 in February, which will gradually increase the minimum wage rate to $15 by 2024. (The minimum wage for tipped employees will increase to $9.87 over the same period.) The schedule of annual increases was delayed for certain seasonal workers and employees of small employers, and a training wage of 90 percent of the minimum wage was created for certain employees for their first 120 hours of work.
• Illinois enacted SB 1 in February, which will phase in a minimum wage increase to $15 by 2025. The measure also adjusted the youth wage for workers under age 18 (it will gradually increase to $13 by 2025) and created a tax credit program to offset labor cost increases for smaller employers.
• Maryland's legislature overrode a gubernatorial veto to enact a measure (SB 280) that phased-in a minimum wage increase to $15 by 2024 (with a delayed schedule of rate increases for smaller employers) and eliminated and the state subminimum wage for employees younger than age 20.
• New Mexico enacted SB 437 in April, which will raise the state minimum wage to $12 by 2023. The measure also established a training wage for high school students and slightly increased the tipped minimum wage.
• Connecticut enacted HB 5004 in May, which will raise the state minimum wage to $15 by 2023. The measure also indexed the minimum wage to the employment cost index.
• Nevada enacted AB 456 in June, which phases in a minimum wage increase over several years. By July 1, 2024, the minimum wage will be $11.00 for employers that offer their employees health benefits and $12.00 for employers that do not offer health benefits.

2018 Highlights

• Eighteen states began the new year with higher minimum wages. Eight states (Alaska, Florida, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, Ohio and South Dakota) automatically increased their rates based on the cost of living, while eleven states (Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington) increased their rates due to previously approved legislation or ballot initiatives.
• Massachusetts enacted a measure (HB 4640) to increase the state minimum wage to $15 over five years. The tipped wage would rise to $6.75 from $3.75 over the same time period.
• Delaware enacted SB 170, which phases in a two-step increase. The rate rises from $8.25 to $8.75 effective Jan. 1, 2019 (as amended by HB 483), and will increase again to $9.25 effective Oct. 1, 2019.
• Voters in Arkansas and Missouri approved ballot initiatives phasing in increases to $11 and $12 per hour, respectively.
• The Michigan legislature enacted SB 1171, which raises the minimum wage on an annual basis until it reaches $12.05 in 2030.

2017 Highlights

• Nineteen states began 2017 with higher minimum wages. Seven states (Alaska, Florida, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, Ohio and South Dakota) automatically increased their rates based on the cost of living, five states (Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Maine and Washington) increased their rates through ballot initiatives previously approved by voters, and seven states (California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York and Vermont) did so as a result of legislation passed in prior sessions. Washington D.C., Maryland and Oregon raised their respective minimum wages on July 1, 2017 due to previously enacted legislation.
• Rhode Island was the only state to enact a minimum wage increase during the 2017 legislative sessions.

2016 Highlights

• Voters in Arizona, Colorado, Maine and Washington approved November ballot measures to raise their respective minimum wages. Arizona, Colorado and Maine will incrementally increase their minimum wages to $12 an hour by 2020. Washington's will be increased incrementally to $13.50 an hour by 2020.
• New York became the second state to pass a new law that would raise the minimum wage in New York City to $15 per hour by the end of 2018. Washington D.C. followed suit, enacting a law to raise the minimum wage in the District to $15 per hour by July 1, 2020.
• On April 4, California Governor Jerry Brown signed SB 3 into law. The new law increases the minimum wage to $15 per hour by Jan. 1, 2022, for employers with 26 or more employees. For employers with 25 or fewer employees the minimum wage will reach $15 per hour by Jan. 1, 2023. Increases may be paused by the governor if certain economic or budgetary conditions exist. Beginning the first Jan. 1 after the minimum wage reaches $15 per hour for smaller employers, the minimum wage is indexed annually for inflation.
• On March 23, Governor Kenneth Mapp of the Virgin Islands signed Act 7856, establishing an $8.35 minimum wage with scheduled annual increases on June 1, 2017, and 2018 until the rate reaches $10.50.
• On March 2, Oregon Governor Kate Brown signed SB 1532 into law. It establishes a series of annual minimum wage increases from July 1, 2016, through July 1, 2022. Beginning July 1, 2023, the minimum wage rate will be indexed to inflation based on the Consumer Price Index.
• Fourteen states begin the new year with higher minimum wages. Of those, 12 states increased their rates through legislation passed in the 2014 or 2015 sessions, while two states automatically increased their rates based on the cost of living.
• Of the 11 states that currently tie increases to the cost of living, eight did not increase their minimum wage rates for 2016. Colorado provided for an 8-cent increase and South Dakota granted a 5-cent increase per hour. Increases in Nevada are required to take effect in July.
• Maryland, Minnesota and D.C. have additional increases scheduled for 2016. Nevada will announce in July whether or not there will be a cost of living increase to their indexed minimum wage.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

Ofcourse it's pandering. Why else would a decidedly State issue be discussed fruitlessly in DC?

Every year, we will see more States vote for their own minimum wage increases that's specifically suitable for them, the way it should be.

A few pages back I asked everyone who are against voting for their own State's minimum wage (the way California, New York, and Florida did), and pretty much the only answer I've got so far is that "democracy doesn't work".

How is it a decidedly state issue when we've had a Federal minimum wage since the 30s?

 

[Lead]

Isn't the current legislation on the table a phase in by 2024?

Ans I bring up Manchin because if he is on board it forces the other Senators.

Honestly the push to $15 isn't even a radical deal at this point.

Fighting against it is more of a pandering job imo

Oh, it possibly could be. I know the data that was being referenced for the CBO data in the OP referred to an older bill which had the phase to 2024 and they alway distinguished that, making me think this one doesn’t do that.

Not radical at all. Not a single state has it but let’s force them all to do it. That in itself is radical regardless or ideological leaning. And I don’t see how it could be pandering the other direction. Fighting against it isn’t a popular thing to do so that would be a poor decision for most politicians. Maybe not republican strongholds but on average. It will become a more sensible proposal as time goes on of course because of inflation but we had this being talked about even in 2016.

 

[Arkain2K]

How is it a decidedly state issue when we've had a Federal minimum wage since the 30s?

It became a State issue when only seven out of 50 states still adheres to the $7.25 federal minimum wage, while the overwhelming majority of the country has long rendered it obsolete with their own unique minimum wage structure that makes sense for THEIR state.

 

[Lead]

@Lead to be more clear I don't think at this point $15 an hour minimum is a big shock to the system. And if this bill isn't tied to inflation how long until $15 is under market rate?

I’m all for finding a way for it the automatically raise over time. I dont have a preference yet on what to tie it to yet and the rents idea you linked is something interesting I haven’t heard before. I think democrats are far more willing to take the risk of what shock it does to the system because it’s red states it could mess up the most. Again, the fact that the most liberal states don’t even have $15 in place yet we should enact it on the lowest cost of living states and areas is narrow minded and not good policy. It won’t be the end of the world if it passes but I think it goes out of the way to force a bond gesture rather than try to get to the right answer.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

It became a State issue when only seven out of 50 states still adheres to the $7.25 federal minimum wage, while the overwhelming majority of the country has long rendered it obsolete with their own unique minimum wage structure that makes sense for THEIR state.

So it's not decidedly a state issue

 

[Arkain2K]

So it's not decidedly a state issue

It is 43 out of 50 states that's has their own minimum wage, 29 of which are far higher than the obsolete Federal level, and we Californians are quite happy with the increment structure that we voted for with our own ballots.

...Are you not happy with what you voted for in your State?

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

I’m all for finding a way for it the automatically raise over time. I dont have a preference yet on what to tie it to yet and the rents idea you linked is something interesting I haven’t heard before. I think democrats are far more willing to take the risk of what shock it does to the system because it’s red states it could mess up the most. Again, the fact that the most liberal states don’t even have $15 in place yet we should enact it on the lowest cost of living states and areas is narrow minded and not good policy. It won’t be the end of the world if it passes but I think it goes out of the way to force a bond gesture rather than try to get to the right answer.

Emoyers that don't want to pay their employees a fair wage have found refuge in red states.

It's time for that to change.

$15 is the bare minimum

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

It is for 29 out of 50 states, with even more to come, and we are quite happy with the minimum wage structure that we voted for with our own ballots.

Most Americans don't think it's adequate.

Time to bump up that pay

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN2AP2B9

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

PA and NC have lower minimum wages than West Virginia.....

Federalism is working lol

 

[Arkain2K]

Most Americans don't think it's adequate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN2AP2B9

Which take us back round and around in a circle: Now that we have established that the Federal minimum wage is long obsolete for most states, why would anyone be against The People deciding their own adequate minimum wage for their State, which is actually happening every year while the politicians in DC are wasting their time pandering?

Seriously, I have yet to see a single logical answer to that yet. If you actually want it done, don't wait around, VOTE!

As a Californian, I'm satisfied with the minimum wage that WE voted for OUR State last year. I'm sure it's the same for the voters in New York, Florida, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico, Washington, and the rest.

Are you not happy with what YOU voted for your State?

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

Which take us back round and around in a circle: Now that we have established that the Federal minimum wage is long obsolete for most states, why would anyone be against The People deciding their own adequate minimum wage for their State, which is happening every year while the politicians in DC are wasting their time pandering?

Seriously, I have yet to see a single logical answer to that yet.

As a Californian, I'm satisfied with what we voted for us. I'm sure New Yorkers and Floridians are the same. Are you not happy with what YOU voted for your State?

Lol everyone is happy except 2/3 of America that support $15 lol

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pe...ing-federal-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour/?amp=1

 

[Lead]

Emoyers that don't want to pay their employees a fair wage have found refuge in red states.

It's time for that to change.

$15 is the bare minimum

A few problems with this imo:
-It’s just addressing big business. One thing I tend to have an issue with on the left is it feels like they maybe subconsciously want business consolidated to large companies because it’s easier to get people against big business and regulate them compared to picking on the small business owner. This will affect small businesses and is another reason I’d be careful with a sweeping measure.
-Fairness is subjective but I’d say I’m coming far closer to it by saying we have a large country that isn’t just big cities like Philadelphia and we should probably think about each community before pushing something this big on everyone. Also, I mentioned a page or so back but half of those on minimum wage are under 25 so a large majority of this isn’t even really tied to livable wages/ poverty imo. Like I don’t think we need to make the floor a wage that gets you to financial independence necessarily and am far more comfortable with our tax system fixing that than bumping the wage high very quickly.
-“Refuge in red states. It’s time to chage that.” That makes me even more skeptical there is a care at all about who this could have the negative impact on (red states).
-“$15 is the bare minimum”- not really though. Like I mentioned earlier, a measure like $10 is a real possibility to get to 60 votes. Even if it doesn’t make it federally, a lot of states will be able to raise it themselves and have been recently (Florida just didn’t $10 actually). I would think nearly every city could do this themselves yet we don’t see it for some reason.

I think your heart is in the right place here but that doesn’t make it right.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

A few problems with this imo:
-It’s just addressing big business. One thing I tend to have an issue with on the left is it feels like they maybe subconsciously want business consolidated to large companies because it’s easier to get people against big business and regulate them compared to picking on the small business owner. This will affect small businesses and is another reason I’d be careful with a sweeping measure.
-Fairness is subjective but I’d say I’m coming far closer to it by saying we have a large country that isn’t just big cities like Philadelphia and we should probably think about each community before pushing something this big on everyone. Also, I mentioned a page or so back but half of those on minimum wage are under 25 so a large majority of this isn’t even really tied to livable wages/ poverty imo. Like I don’t think we need to make the floor a wage that gets you to financial independence necessarily and am far more comfortable with our tax system fixing that than bumping the wage high very quickly.
-“Refuge in red states. It’s time to chage that.” That makes me even more skeptical there is a care at all about who this could have the negative impact on (red states).
-“$15 is the bare minimum”- not really though. Like I mentioned earlier, a measure like $10 is a real possibility to get to 60 votes. Even if it doesn’t make it federally, a lot of states will be able to raise it themselves and have been recently (Florida just didn’t $10 actually). I would think nearly every city could do this themselves yet we don’t see it for some reason.

I think your heart is in the right place here but that doesn’t make it right.

This argument would hold more weight 10 years ago. But since our minimum wage isn't tied to inflation and we haven't raised it in 12 years it just seems like pandering to me.

 

[Arkain2K]

Lol everyone is happy except 2/3 of America that support $15 lol

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/30/two-thirds-of-americans-favor-raising-federal-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour/?amp=1

So I ask you: why not let all those people vote for that increase in their State and actually get it done, rather than sit around watching the politicians argues in DC while nothing gets done?

Are you not happy with what YOU voted for in your State?

 

[Scheme]

Many reasons not to raise it, especially so dramatically:

1) Manufacturing is already dying in the US, would be even worse

2) The people who will lose the most jobs will be those making anywhere between current minimum wage (~$7.25) and the new one ($15).

3) The people who will lose their jobs will all flood the low skill market in search of new jobs, which is already flooded and where the jobs are already difficult to land, and will be met with a pool of even less jobs because of it. Remember, when a job goes away it's really a double whammy, since the job is not there for anyone else and the person who lost it has to find a new job.

4) Inflation will spike because of this. The actual number of the wage doesn't really matter because the market will just push the wage differential back to where they are now over time. Although there would be a short term benefit for those who still have a job after the increase, as the market will take time to reach equilibrium again. Ultimately a guy who sells apples doesn't care what nominal price he gets for them, he only cares about what his apples are worth with respect to other products/services.

5) Small businesses (those who are already hurting the most out of COVID-19 and in general in America) will be even further hurt by this compared to large corporations where wages aren't as big of an expense.

6) More people being unemployed puts a bigger burden on the government, who will also take in less revenue from corporations as they will have less taxable income. Although this could be offset by the additional income from the amount of people earning higher wages.

7) People who will be hurt worst will be those in already poorest communities, specifically ones whose populace already is earning the current minimum wage. Going from paying $7.25 to $15 is going to be way more impactful than going from $14 to $15.

8) Would incentivize companies to even further push automation and technology to replace human jobs

All in all, a good amount of the people who this is supposed to help will be hurt the most, and the effects will be devastating on an already failing American low skill job market.

 

[Yehudim]

Emoyers that don't want to pay their employees a fair wage have found refuge in red states.

It's time for that to change.

$15 is the bare minimum

Lol, those red states that are exploding with populations and have low unemployment rates.

 

[Lead]

This argument would hold more weight 10 years ago. But since our minimum wage isn't tied to inflation and we haven't raised it in 12 years it just seems like pandering to me.

I told you already I’m for some type of measure for raising it, just not to $15.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

So I ask you: why not let all those people vote for that increase in their State and actually get it done, rather than sit around watching the politicians argues in DC while nothing gets done?

Are you not happy with what YOU voted for in your State?

Because we have a federal government capable of doing it.

By your logic why have a minimum wage at any level beyond the employee and emoyer?

Collective bargaining produces better results.

 

[Yehudim]

So I ask you: why not let all those people vote for that increase in their State and actually get it done, rather than sit around watching the politicians argues in DC while nothing gets done?

Are you not happy with what YOU voted for in your State?

Something something fairness

Something something here’s a Bernie “I am economically illiterate” Sanders screenshot