Economy Minimum wage debate: States make their own increases (Post #340)

[Yehudim]

Because we have a federal government capable of doing it.

By your logic why have a minimum wage at any level beyond the employee and emoyer?

Collective bargaining produces better results.

You can collectively bargain to propose a bill and then collectively bargain to vote that bill into law.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

I told you already I’m for some type of measure for raising it, just not to $15.

And I've told you that is pandering to corps.

$15 will not lead to mass unemployment. It's barely ahead of inflation if it's even ahead of inflation.

Again this is not a shock to any legitimate system.

The fight against it is reactionary

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

Lol, those red states that are exploding with populations and have low unemployment rates.

The states that are completely reliant on blue state tax dollars

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

You can collectively bargain to propose a bill and then collectively bargain to vote that bill into law.

Yeah...

 

[Yehudim]

Yeah...

Oh, I forgot to say that you can do it directly, actual collective bargaining via a vote of citizens, rather than praying that congress does it.

I guess that would mean actually getting up and filling papers instead of just letting AOC and Bernie handle it

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

Oh, I forgot to say that you can do it directly, actual collective bargaining via a vote of citizens, rather than praying that congress does it.

I guess that would mean actually getting up and filling papers instead of just letting AOC and Bernie handle it

Lol what?

 

[Lead]

And I've told you that is pandering to corps.

$15 will not lead to mass unemployment. It's barely ahead of inflation if it's even ahead of inflation.

Again this is not a shock to any legitimate system.

The fight against it is reactionary

I pointed out it isn’t just about corps though and you are giving a very narrow focus here.
-Only looking at large business
-Only looking at it at it from an urban perspective
-Only looking at it as all or nothing (“$15 is bare minimum”)

Reactionary. The policy is stands on the good or bad it could do. There are many points laid out here why people could believe $15 is too high. Hell, Jack even said in an ideal situation, he likely isn’t for something that high and I doubt he’d consider himself reactionary for saying so. Liberal circles even have some disagreement on this from what I’ve encountered. That’s why it makes me skeptical how united the democratic block of the senate really is on this specific measure.

 

[Lead]

Looks like they are making that second go of it with the payroll tax idea. It's a little different though. A 5% payroll tax would be imposed on "very large companies" who don't have the wage at a certain minimum. Additionally, there would be a tax credit for small companies who choose to raise their wages. The number itself is on the table as well but I think it's certainly possible they still stick with $15.

Senate Democrats move immediately to "Plan B" on minimum wage
CBS

The plan being drafted by aides to Senate Finance Committee chair Ron Wyden of Oregon — in close consultation with Senate Budget Chair Bernie Sanders of Vermont — would impose a 5% payroll tax penalty on "very large" companies that do not pay workers a certain amount. That amount is still unclear: Wyden favors $15 an hour, but is currently seeking feedback from fellow Democrats on that figure and on exactly which companies would face the penalties.

"Everyone in the caucus is envisioning 'very large' companies – think Walmart, Amazon," a Senate Democratic aide told CBS News.

Under the proposal, which Senate Democrats hope to finish crafting by early next week, smaller businesses that raise their workers' wages would be eligible for income tax credits equal to 25% of wages — up to $10,00[0] per employer to year — tax incentives to increase wages.

Some other elements here is AOC was saying the house bill passed with progressives because of the inclusion of the minimum wage piece so she thinks it is important Senate still gets it included. I don't really think there's much that group can do in the event it doesn't happen.

Ocasio-Cortez also challenged Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, who has expressed opposition to raising the minimum wage to $15 and has instead suggested that it be raised to $11 per hour.

"His own constituents, West Virginians, want a $15 minimum wage. So I don't even see what kind of leg he's standing on here where the majority of his own state doesn't agree with him," Ocasio-Cortez said. A February poll by the One Fair Wage Coalition, a group which supports a minimum wage hike, found that 63% of West Virginians support raising the minimum wage by 2025.

This brings back the possibility of this having to be part of the bill despite Manchin and Sinema's initial disapproval of a $15 across the board measure. However, the new proposal is different so it can't be assumed they are against this as well.

What's interesting here is this puts Hawley in an interesting spot because he proposed a plan that would make large companies (over a 1B in revenue) to pay $15 an hour and smaller companies would get a tax credit (nearly the same thing being proposed above). Very unlikely but you got a dimension there where he might consider voting for the package. It's a much larger package though 1.9T and minimum wage is just one piece of it that will possibly be included.

 

[rob mafia]

between this, brr, and the covid lockdowns/stimulus/debt/etc, it really does look like an actual concentrated effort to destroy/seriously devalue the dollar.

which is comical, as the rich don't hoard dollars but assets (stock, real estate, etc) that would be unaffected. and yet, supposedly these actions are to benefit the lower/middle class.

 

[Lead]

There aren't details yet how they will define very large companies but the examples were Amazon and Walmart that I saw. Amazon actually already does $15. Walmart does $11 at the moment while their competitor Target (which are usually in urban areas while Walmart is usually in rural areas) does $15. I'm wondering how much change this would actually cause for the companies scoped in here and to what degree.

 

[jrams]

There aren't details yet how they will define very large companies but the examples were Amazon and Walmart that I saw. Amazon actually already does $15. Walmart does $11 at the moment while their competitor Target (which are usually in urban areas while Walmart is usually in rural areas) does $15. I'm wondering how much change this would actually cause for the companies scoped in here and to what degree.

Amazon cut stock benefits and hours when it implemented minimum wage. I'd be interested to see if the average minimum wage worker made more or less a year with that change, now that it's been in place for a couple of years.

 

[Lead]

Amazon cut stock benefits and hours when it implemented minimum wage. I'd be interested to see if the average minimum wage worker made more or less a year with that change, now that it's been in place for a couple of years.

They offer stock benefits to minimum wage workers? That sounds cool but I don't see how many would actually be able to take advantage of it since they hardly make much. I suppose overtime can shift the scales a bit but still.

 

[Lead]

Looks like Plan B is getting dropped too for now.

Senate Democrats drop proposal to penalize companies for not providing $15 minimum wage
CNN

Senate Democrats decided Sunday to abandon an alternative proposal to penalize companies for not providing a $15 minimum wage to their employees, the latest indication that boosting the federal minimum wage in this Congress remains an extremely tall order, according to a person involved in the talks.

After the House passed President Joe Biden's Covid-19 relief bill early Saturday morning -- with a provision raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour in stages by 2025 -- the bill is expected to hit the Senate floor this week, but without that same provision, which the Senate parliamentarian ruled doesn't fall within the rules of budget reconciliation, a process that allows Senate Democrats to pass the $1.9 trillion relief plan with just 51 votes.
Senate Democrats had a difficult time crafting the tax provisions in their alternative minimum wage proposal, sources said, so they are looking at other potential avenues to boost the rate. Yet it underscores the dire chances of boosting the wage after the parliamentarian's ruling.
If they can't find an alternative rate hike to fit into the budget reconciliation bill, which they're trying to pass by the middle of March, they will have to try to pass such a plan through regular order, meaning 60 votes would be needed in the 50-50 Senate.


The Senate could move to open debate on the bill as soon as Wednesday, with a marathon voting session on amendments -- known in the Senate as a vote-a-rama -- potentially Thursday. But the timing is still in flux.

 

[Clifford_Harris]

They offer stock benefits to minimum wage workers? That sounds cool but I don't see how many would actually be able to take advantage of it since they hardly make much. I suppose overtime can shift the scales a bit but still.

They did, it was given 2 RSUs after the first year, and 1 each additional year. The stocks were given not a purchase so anyone could have taken advantage. Now they offer a plan to purchase stocks over time with an amount coming out of each check.

 

[jrams]

They offer stock benefits to minimum wage workers? That sounds cool but I don't see how many would actually be able to take advantage of it since they hardly make much. I suppose overtime can shift the scales a bit but still.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/09/technology/amazon-workers-pay-raise.html

 

[Lead]

The eight Democrats who voted 'no' on $15 minimum wage
The Hill

One of President Biden’s top policy goals, an increase in the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025, suffered a big setback Friday when eight members of the Senate Democratic caucus voted against it.

An effort by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to waive a procedural objection to adding the $15 minimum wage to a COVID-19 relief package was resoundingly defeated by a vote of 58-42 in which seven Democrats and one independent joined all 50 Republicans.

Kinda expected this. Manchin wasn't the only person actually against this and Bernie likely upset some of those in his party by making them have to reveal that.

 

[Lead]

The eight democrats who voted no:
Joe Manchin (D-WV) - this was already the most expected out of the group
Kyrsten Sinema (D-AZ) - also someone expected to vote no
Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH)
Maggie Hassan (D-NH)
Jon Tester (D-Mont)- Montana was a state I was thinking might pull out a no vote. Their state minimum is only 8.50 and their median wage is 17.51
Tom Carper (D-DE)
Chris Coons (D-DE)
Angus King (I-ME)

Kinda surprised about New Hampshire and Delaware senators going no but I did expect more than just 1-2 to vote no if it came down to it.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

I've said it before. Min wag should be increased. 15 is too much.

Not everyone lives in a city or state that could handle it.
Make it 10 nationally and let states decide if their citizens need more.

Democrats could pass 10 easy. Gonna lose the chance gambling on 15

 

[Lead]

Actually, New Hampshire and Delaware make more sense now. I didn't originally notice this when looking at possible senators dissenting. Always though

7.25 minimum wage
17.21/hr median income

Delaware
8.75/ minimum wage
16.16/hr median income

In general, most states are going to be way more okay with a hike to $10 imo. You could likely get 4-6 GOP senators on board with that. Hard to truly say though cause there would probably be provisions. For example, Romney and Cotton want e-verify and Hawley wants it to be close to plan B provision that didn't move forward where it would only be very large companies. The tax penalty works a little differently in his though.

 

[Lead]

I've said it before. Min wag should be increased. 15 is too much.

Not everyone lives in a city or state that could handle it.
Make it 10 nationally and let states decide if their citizens need more.

Democrats could pass 10 easy. Gonna lose the chance gambling on 15

I think the federal government should be the backstop and not the leader here. You don't want to damage any state's economy just to make a statement, especially when states can and have been upping it on their own. Missouri is really the bottom of the group with 14.25/ hr median income and 8.60 minimum wage so I think you have to look at them and the other lower states like Alabama carefully before considering too large of a hike.