Elections 2020 Democratic Nevada Primary Thread

[franklinstower]

Because the info he posted was about healthcare.


Where’s the other 30 trillion supposed to come from? None of you progressives are willing to address it beyond “well we should promise everything so people are energized”



Well what happens when the reality of governance hits and you need to actually start pushing legislation. AOC has already conceded down to a public option (I know you won’t like that but you can bet your ass it’s the truth. The second she admitted that was what they would accept, the baseline STARTING POINT of republicans was determined).


What happens to the progressive movement when Bernie accomplishes literally nothing in an entire term?


Democrats would be mindful to remember the old saying “under promise, over deliver”. If you ran a laser focused election on healthcare, you could win, maybe just maybe be able to pass something, and energize a generation of progressives. Instead you’ll promise the moon and deliver very little.



Oh wait, never mind. You’re gonna lose.

You just can't hang with @Sano because he is one of the top 5 posters on here that uses facts and figures to make his arguments. I don't believe you even read what he posted.

 

[PEB]

 

[MikeMcMann]

Ya I don't even understand that complaint.

Bernie is regularly and undenyable savaged by top Dem's and their supporters, often dishonestly, in the Main stream media and somehow the thing to complain about is mean tweets??

I know which one I think is far worse.

And beyond that we KNOW that the main Russian trolling tactic is to inflame fights by spoofing themselves as the most extreme elements of the left and right and engaging in vicious flame wars to create polarization.

Should we start a running list adding everytime a top mainstream talking head compares Bernie's successes to the march of Nazi'ism?

I've got Chuck Todd and Chris Matthews recently.

But oh what about the mean tweets?

 

[bobgeese]

You just can't hang with @Sano because he is one of the top 5 posters on here that uses facts and figures to make his arguments. I don't believe you even read what he posted.

Which is why he ducked posting facts and figures?


I and anyone who pays attention understands that, eventually, a universal healthcare plan will reduce costs.


It’s the other 30 trillion in free shit he’s promising that nobody will address. He can’t pay for it, he can’t pass the legislation. He’s a pipe dream.

 

[franklinstower]

Which is why he ducked posting facts and figures?


I and anyone who pays attention understands that, eventually, a universal healthcare plan will reduce costs.


It’s the other 30 trillion in free shit he’s promising that nobody will address. He can’t pay for it, he can’t pass the legislation. He’s a pipe dream.

@Sano posts facts.

You don't read or address them.

You post your own shittier facts and declare yourself winner because Sano doesn't reply to your bullshit.

This is how it went down and every one knows it man.

 

[bobgeese]

@Sano posts facts.

You don't read or address them.

You post your own shittier facts and declare yourself winner because Sano doesn't reply to your bullshit.

This is how it went down and every one knows it man.

Really?


Because I’m pretty sure I posted a CNN article laying out the costs, and he hasn’t replied with a damn thing beyond healthcare.


Oh, let’s not forget cbs confronted Bernie, and found out he didn’t even know how much free shit he was promising.



But, ya know, enjoy your pipe dreams. I’m old enough to remember hope and change.

 

[franklinstower]

Really?


Because I’m pretty sure I posted a CNN article laying out the costs, and he hasn’t replied with a damn thing beyond healthcare.


Oh, let’s not forget cbs confronted Bernie, and found out he didn’t even know how much free shit he was promising.



But, ya know, enjoy your pipe dreams. I’m old enough to remember hope and change.

 

[bobgeese]

^^^ perfect example of a Bernie Bro.



Please address the missing 30 trillion dollars Bernie is promising to give away.

We’ll wait.

 

[Sano]

Which is why he ducked posting facts and figures?


I and anyone who pays attention understands that, eventually, a universal healthcare plan will reduce costs.


It’s the other 30 trillion in free shit he’s promising that nobody will address. He can’t pay for it, he can’t pass the legislation. He’s a pipe dream.

This is good. Maybe we can finally pin you down and prevent you from changing the goalpost and ignoring questions and replies.

So before we move on to other policies, do you concede that M4A would save the American people money AND that it can be paid for?

 

[bobgeese]

This is good. Maybe we can finally pin you down and prevent you from changing the goalpost and ignoring questions and replies.

So before we move on to other policies, do you concede that M4A would save the American people money AND that it can be paid for?

After a long, painful period in which a hundred million ish people lose their healthcare coverage that they worked hard for, and potentially even chose their job for, and an initial decade + of bleeding money, the program may lower costs.


Remember the Obamacare website?


The Obama administration has spent roughly $840 million on HealthCare.gov, including more than $150 million just in cost overruns for the version that failed so badly when it launched last year.

The Government Accountability Office says cost overruns went hand-in-hand with the management failures that led to the disastrous launch of HealthCare.gov and the 36 state insurance exchanges it serves.

GAO's report, prepared for a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing Thursday, details a long series of management, oversight, and contracting problems that plagued the entire process, from risky contracting practices in 2011 through the botched launch last October.



Here are the key findings from GAO's prepared testimony:

• When the process began in 2011, CMS obligated $56 million for the federally run exchanges, including HealthCare.gov. Those costs swelled to $209 million.
• Costs for the federal data hub, which coordinates records and personal information from several state and federal agencies to help the exchanges process applications, rose from $30 million to $80 million.
• CMS fired CGI in January and signed a new contract with Accenture. That contract has also seen major cost overruns—from an initial obligation of $95 million to more than $175 million.
• Because CMS's oversight of the contract with CGI was so poor, CMS officials inappropriately authorized more than $30 million in expenditures. GAO found 40 separate occasions on which work was approved incorrectly.

......

So, in actual practice, it looks like costs will run anywhere from 2-4x the projected figures.



Btw, all these figures are from the FAR right Atlantic...

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/obamacare-website-has-cost-840-million/440478/



....


Now, Sano, you answer a question. What is the economic impact of Sanders destroying both our healthcare and energy workforce?

And please, no cop out answer of “all the fracking jobs will be replaced by green energy stuff”. The entire healthcare system will be turned on it’s head (look at the effect of a virus on the market today), the entirety of the health insurance workforce will be unemployed, and we will no longer be energy independent.


Boy, I can’t wait for $4 gas under Bernie...

 

[Sano]

After a long, painful period in which a hundred million ish people lose their healthcare coverage that they worked hard for, and potentially even chose their job for, and an initial decade + of bleeding money, the program may lower costs.


Remember the Obamacare website?


The Obama administration has spent roughly $840 million on HealthCare.gov, including more than $150 million just in cost overruns for the version that failed so badly when it launched last year.

The Government Accountability Office says cost overruns went hand-in-hand with the management failures that led to the disastrous launch of HealthCare.gov and the 36 state insurance exchanges it serves.

GAO's report, prepared for a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing Thursday, details a long series of management, oversight, and contracting problems that plagued the entire process, from risky contracting practices in 2011 through the botched launch last October.



Here are the key findings from GAO's prepared testimony:

• When the process began in 2011, CMS obligated $56 million for the federally run exchanges, including HealthCare.gov. Those costs swelled to $209 million.
• Costs for the federal data hub, which coordinates records and personal information from several state and federal agencies to help the exchanges process applications, rose from $30 million to $80 million.
• CMS fired CGI in January and signed a new contract with Accenture. That contract has also seen major cost overruns—from an initial obligation of $95 million to more than $175 million.
• Because CMS's oversight of the contract with CGI was so poor, CMS officials inappropriately authorized more than $30 million in expenditures. GAO found 40 separate occasions on which work was approved incorrectly.

......

So, in actual practice, it looks like costs will run anywhere from 2-4x the projected figures.







....


Now, Sano, you answer a question. What is the economic impact of Sanders destroying both our healthcare and energy workforce?

And please, no cop out answer of “all the fracking jobs will be replaced by green energy stuff”. The entire healthcare system will be turned on it’s head, and we will no longer be energy independent. Boy, I can’t wait for $4 gas under Bernie...

I don't give a shit about the Obamacare website and M4A doesn't doesn't take insurance away from anyone, it gives hundreds of million Americans more extensive coverage. That's such a dishonest way of framing the issue its absurd.

You cant claim facts and then when youre presented with them just completely ignore them or act like they are not true. Stop fucking obfuscating and answer already. Do you concede that M4A will save the American people money and can be paid for?

 

[bobgeese]

I don't give a shit about the Obamacare website and M4A doesn't doesn't take insurance away from anyone, it gives hundreds of million Americans more extensive coverage. That's such a dishonest way of framing the issue its absurd.

You cant claim facts and then when youre presented with them just completely ignore them or act like they are not true. Stop fucking obfuscating and answer already. Do you concede that M4A will save the American people money and can be paid for?

Ignoring facts?



I just presented you with the REAL WORLD OUTCOME of government projecting costs of healthcare reform. Costs were 2-4x the projected amount.



How is that not relevant?


PS, Bernie is literally running on taking away my health insurance, which is great insurance btw.

“In fact, the bill would outright ban private insurance that provides similar coverage to the new Medicare for All plans after a short transition period. That means everyone with comprehensive employee benefits or a private plan through the Affordable Care Act today would be moved onto Medicare.”

 

[DrunkZombie]

damn these Bernie bros are the most delusional. These wanna be revolutionaries are something else. kind of reminds me of the Corbyn's loudmouth supporters from the UK. They actually think the general population is going to agree with Bernie's stances on raising taxes, forgiving 100% student loans, 15 dollars an hour even for burger flippers and so on.

These fools actually think a communist who endlessly praised the soviets and Castro breadlines is actually going to win over regular everyday Americans. Good luck with that.

 

[Sano]

Ignoring facts?



I just presented you with the REAL WORLD OUTCOME of government projecting costs of healthcare reform. Costs were 2-4x the projected amount.



How is that not relevant?


PS, Bernie is literally running on taking away my health insurance, which is great insurance btw.

“In fact, the bill would outright ban private insurance that provides similar coverage to the new Medicare for All plans after a short transition period. That means everyone with comprehensive employee benefits or a private plan through the Affordable Care Act today would be moved onto Medicare.”

You literally just said yourself that anyone who pays attention knows that single payer healthcare will save money. Medicare is also more cost effective than private insurance. Youre all over the place, so much that you cant even agree with yourself.

You refuse to answer any questions, you refuse to accept any studies, you obfuscate the points in bad faith, you constantly change the goalpost and you clearly dont care about the facts. I could spend hours showing you data points, which I have, but no matter what anyone shows you, as soon as it contradicts your point or is otherwise inconvenient, you ignore it or change the subject. You clearly dont care to educate yourself on the issues, you just want to keep using your talking points, so why should I care?

It's a complete waste of time.

 

[ferrisjso]

Ignoring facts?



I just presented you with the REAL WORLD OUTCOME of government projecting costs of healthcare reform. Costs were 2-4x the projected amount.



How is that not relevant?


PS, Bernie is literally running on taking away my health insurance, which is great insurance btw.

“In fact, the bill would outright ban private insurance that provides similar coverage to the new Medicare for All plans after a short transition period. That means everyone with comprehensive employee benefits or a private plan through the Affordable Care Act today would be moved onto Medicare.”

Yes healthcare reform that involved private health insurers(aka legalized genocide companies) whose entire purpose is to charge as much money while paying out as little as the law allows.

And no your insurance is not great if it's private btw. The only people happy with their insurance are those lucky enough to not have their health care rationed for whatever reason. Your insurance sucks you just haven't been made aware of it due to luck. And if your insurance doesn't suck and was negotiated in bulk by a union(as much of the least fucked with private insurance tends to be)and/or large employer, well at best it's taking away a shit ton of your unions leverage to get that plan(instead of using it to get better pay or other stuff) at worst basically keeping you trapped at a job you hate.

And also I want the insurance employees to go to prison, their suffering is justice, IMO not even close to enough. I don't want them to be able to be free never mind prosperous after going on what was in essence a legal killing spree for decades on end.

 

[bobgeese]

Yes healthcare reform that involved private health insurers(aka legalized genocide companies) whose entire purpose is to charge as much money while paying out as little as the law allows.

And no your insurance is not great if it's private btw. The only people happy with their insurance are those lucky enough to not have their health care rationed for whatever reason. Your insurance sucks you just haven't been made aware of it due to luck. And if your insurance doesn't suck and was negotiated in bulk by a union(as much of the least fucked with private insurance tends to be)and/or large employer, well at best it's taking away a shit ton of your unions leverage to get that plan(instead of using it to get better pay or other stuff) at worst basically keeping you trapped at a job you hate.

And also I want the insurance employees to go to prison, their suffering is justice, IMO not even close to enough. I don't want them to be able to be free never mind prosperous after going on what was in essence a legal killing spree for decades on end.

^^^ the mask comes off the unhinged progressive.


Let’s review, in this post you


1) concede it will put an entire industry out of work, with absolutely no plan for them. These are not billionaires, they’re average joes, literal insurance salesmen.

2) you tell me, my family insurance isn’t great.







3) you go off the deep end into getting satisfaction out of seeing these people suffer. The really insightful thing about this is it reveals how little you’ve actually thought through the repercussions. The vast majority of the people hit by this are working class people, salesman, office workers, their janitors and suppliers. In fact, the people who you really want to see punished, will feel it the least.







Conclusion, you’re a psychopath.

 

[bobgeese]

You literally just said yourself that anyone who pays attention knows that single payer healthcare will save money. Medicare is also more cost effective than private insurance. Youre all over the place, so much that you cant even agree with yourself.

You refuse to answer any questions, you refuse to accept any studies, you obfuscate the points in bad faith, you constantly change the goalpost and you clearly dont care about the facts. I could spend hours showing you data points, which I have, but no matter what anyone shows you, as soon as it contradicts your point or is otherwise inconvenient, you ignore it or change the subject. You clearly dont care to educate yourself on the issues, you just want to keep using your talking points, so why should I care?

It's a complete waste of time.

You’re smarter than this.


A) it is simultaneously true that healthcare reform (which reminder I’ve already conceded the right has lost the war on) will initially bleed money. It will also eventually level off, and someday (nobody knows when because of unintended consequences addressed later) perhaps even start saving money.


B) I presented sources. You could not refute the missing 30 TRILLION DOLLARS.

CBS confronted Bernie. He could not refute the missing 30 TRILLION DOLLAR.


Actually getting healthcare reform done successfully is going to require all of the money currently spent, and the money raised by increasing taxes on the rich. After all that money is already accounted for, how the hell do you get 30 FUCKING TRILLION MORE DOLLARS??????????

C) This type of massive change does not happen in a vacuum.

Bernie wants to raise taxes, put entire segments of the workforce out of business, make us dependent on foreign energy sources, and completely rearrange our healthcare system (and more)


Do you really believe this won’t have a negative economic impact?

 

[ferrisjso]

^^^ the mask comes off the unhinged progressive.


Let’s review, in this post you


1) concede it will put an entire industry out of work, with absolutely no plan for them. These are not billionaires, they’re average joes, literal insurance salesmen.

2) you tell me, my family insurance isn’t great.







3) you go off the deep end into getting satisfaction out of seeing these people suffer. The really insightful thing about this is it reveals how little you’ve actually thought through the repercussions. The vast majority of the people hit by this are working class people, salesman, office workers, their janitors and suppliers. In fact, the people who you really want to see punished, will feel it the least.







Conclusion, you’re a psychopath.

Health insurance is murder. Compared to blue collar people who do the same thing, they are committing a crime people are put to death for with no consequences. Show some respect for the people they slaughtered you fucking animal.

 

[bobgeese]

@franklinstower


Do you

A) enjoy seeing your boy get smashed by the goose?

B) share in his satisfaction brought about from the suffering that will be incurred by those in the insurance industry?

C) care to explain where the missing 30 trillion dollar will come from?

D) care to explain the consequences of making us dependent on foreign energy, or what happens to the lady at the front desk of the insurance company who loses her job?

 

[bobgeese]

Health insurance is murder. Compared to blue collar people who do the same thing, they are committing a crime people are put to death for with no consequences. Show some respect for the people they slaughtered you fucking animal.

Wow, make that 2 unhinged leftists exposed in this thread.



You do realize the people making those truly awful decisions, are a very small percentage of the insurance industry, right?