"3 techniques in 1 class" mentality

[Evenflow80]

The same exact 15 minute warmups (I can do jumping Jack's and sit ups on my own at home)

Followed by 3 (often totally different) techniques being taught by the professor, with you and your partner drilling it 5 or 6 minutes each.

All this squeezed into an hour. 3 techniques a day x 5 times a week = 15 techniques a week.

One question: why ? Aside from the obvious futility of learning 15 techniques a week , and not seeing them again for weeks or months later, why the damn rush?? Why cram so much in an hour and a week? Persumably you'll be doing bjj as long as you are able to physically. That could be decades.

Is this stupidity the norm? Or does my academy suck ? I got all excited because recently I've been running night classes (I'm a brown belt) and I do quick 5 minute warmups, one technique and drilling it , then last 30 minutes is 20 mins of conditional sparring based on that technique ( i.e if we drilled a closed guard escape, then if you escape guard or bottom person sybmits or sweeps, then you "win" and next person cycles in then followed by regular sparring.

Last 10 minutes is MANDATORY sparring. Our gym has people of all ages and genders and many leave after the hour and not spar at all.

It's been working great , night class people love how we actuslly break a sweat and can done in an hour to go home have dinner etc.

Is the warm up + cramming techniques in an hour then dismissing class and letting people roll or not after, the norm? It seems like such a dumb way of learning anything tbh

 

[Bos Docken]

I'm surprised you've reached brown belt without realizing that is the norm in terms of BJJ class format and instruction.

Yes, it is outdated and inefficient. There are much better ways to learn.

But it is tradition. And unless you are running the gym, you're not going to break the tradition. Especially if you belong to an affiliation.

I've long suspected that after a year of regular BJJ classes, any practitioner would advance further in skill by attending open mats and guiding their own training with online resources.

 

[Evenflow80]

I'm surprised you've reached brown belt without realizing that is the norm in terms of BJJ class format and instruction.

Yes, it is outdated and inefficient. There are much better ways to learn.

But it is tradition. And unless you are running the gym, you're not going to break the tradition. Especially if you belong to an affiliation.

I've long suspected that after a year of regular BJJ classes, any practitioner would advance further in skill by attending open mats and guiding their own training with online resources.

I've been at my academy for 7 years now. I drop in on open mats at many other academies and did attend a full no gi class at studio 540. The latter was 1 technique and just rolling. Warmups were 5 minutes tops.

The whole thing is just stupid. How the hell can anyone get good at anyhting cramming so much in an hour, then never seeing those techniques foe weeks or even months later.

 

[CinemaKingdom]

I've been at my academy for 7 years now. I drop in on open mats at many other academies and did attend a full no gi class at studio 540. The latter was 1 technique and just rolling. Warmups were 5 minutes tops.

The whole thing is just stupid. How the hell can anyone get good at anyhting cramming so much in an hour, then never seeing those techniques foe weeks or even months later.

That's why John Danaher's guys can get better in 2-3 years than dudes who have been doing this for 10+ years.

 

[Bos Docken]

The whole thing is just stupid. How the hell can anyone get good at anyhting cramming so much in an hour, then never seeing those techniques foe weeks or even months later.

The traditional format of BJJ classes came up as a way to introduce the art to people who have zero knowledge of grappling.

3 techniques per class, different techniques every class, was meant to show people positions and holds they had never seen before. I'm talking people who don't know what guard is, don't know what an armbar is.

Those moves weren't being taught with the expectation anyone would be able to execute them live. It was just to impart basic knowledge.

The thing is, that was pre-UFC. MMA has vastly improved the general public's understanding of grappling and submissions. Now most people who walk into a BJJ gym know what mount is, what back control is, how to put on a rear naked choke.

And with the internet, basic knowledge is much more readily available and better organized. One month of Stephan Kesting's "Roadmap for BJJ" package will equip a person with everything information-wise that they would get in a year of the outdated traditional format.

I still think the old way is a reasonable training methodology for someone who is starting from zero and has NO motivation or desire to do any learning or research outside of regular class.

But past the rookie phase, when you are an actual practitioner, you will be better served guiding your own training with video instructionals, live testing, and mat feedback.

 

[Bos Docken]

For some perspective, take a look inside Renzo and Royler Gracie's book Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Theory & Technique.

This was literally the first professional BJJ book on the market, circa 2001.

The organization is atrocious. There are 110 techniques shown, laid out in no particular order. Submissions, takedowns, guard passes, escapes, Gracie Self Defense moves - all presented in a mixed up grab bag manner.

The book has sections divided by belt color - but they are utterly meaningless. An overhook cross collar choke from closed guard is shown as a "blue belt" technique. A balloon sweep is shown as a "black belt" technique.

What becomes apparent is that this book is not an effective training tool. It is more like a showcase of the art for people who don't know jiu-jitsu.

So you can see where the traditional format of BJJ classes came from.

 

[dimmyfinster]

The same exact 15 minute warmups (I can do jumping Jack's and sit ups on my own at home)

Followed by 3 (often totally different) techniques being taught by the professor, with you and your partner drilling it 5 or 6 minutes each.

All this squeezed into an hour. 3 techniques a day x 5 times a week = 15 techniques a week.

One question: why ? Aside from the obvious futility of learning 15 techniques a week , and not seeing them again for weeks or months later, why the damn rush?? Why cram so much in an hour and a week? Persumably you'll be doing bjj as long as you are able to physically. That could be decades.

Is this stupidity the norm? Or does my academy suck ? I got all excited because recently I've been running night classes (I'm a brown belt) and I do quick 5 minute warmups, one technique and drilling it , then last 30 minutes is 20 mins of conditional sparring based on that technique ( i.e if we drilled a closed guard escape, then if you escape guard or bottom person sybmits or sweeps, then you "win" and next person cycles in then followed by regular sparring.

Last 10 minutes is MANDATORY sparring. Our gym has people of all ages and genders and many leave after the hour and not spar at all.

It's been working great , night class people love how we actuslly break a sweat and can done in an hour to go home have dinner etc.

Is the warm up + cramming techniques in an hour then dismissing class and letting people roll or not after, the norm? It seems like such a dumb way of learning anything tbh

I visit lots of gyms on vacation.

Definitely the norm ten years ago.

Nowadays I see some gyms skip warm up or warm up with a technique they already know. Instead of three unrelated techniques, the techniques might be related. Or maybe two techniques. Or three techniques, but tell the new students just do one or two. Sometimes I see positional sparring, sometimes not.

But every so often I'll see the old school warmup, three unrelated techniques, free spar format.

The best format I ever saw was fight sports ten years ago. Seven timed warm up techniques that they had previously learned and were speed drills. Two techniques, positional sparring, full sparring. I think it was an almost two hour class. And the next class they would swap out one of the speed drills, so you were always reviewing what you learned in class. Back then, the technique was not as sharp as today's Danaher technique or back then AOJ technique. But you could not help but learn it with all the speed drilling you did.

 

[yetanother]

Talked with this with a former cosch who was an elite competitors and he agreed that the fairly traditional format of how he teaches classes kind of sucks for teaching students but makes sense from a commercial point of view. As a guy who trained that way himself he was molded by the shitty format and adapted to deal with this.

 

[Peteyandjia]

You also have to keep in mind, most students in a jiujitsu dojo are regular people, working regular jobs. They are not training to win ADCC -- or even their local IBJJF. Most of them will never compete on any serious level, if at all. So the priority is providing a positive experience, not making them into sharpened killers.

To that end, a prolonged warmup goes a long way towards preventing injuries. Especially in non-athletes, regular schlubs. So it's important for the masses.

On the flipside, when I took some of Danaher's classes in the blue basement, it was 2 weeks before ADCC 2019. This was a professional competitor environment. We literally had ZERO warmup -- people were chilling around talking, then Danaher quietly went to the center of the room and with no lineup or formality whatsoever, started showing the technique we were all to drill, speaking quietly. The room suddenly dropped to silence & everyone's attention turned there & it was like oh okay, I guess class is starting.

So it just depends on what the goal is. If you want to be a world champion, find a pro dojo. If you are most people who just want a good workout, but find the gym too boring and think jiujitsu is cool, find any reputable dojo.

However, there is a 3rd option. If you are not a pro, but still want to be a real ninja, then find any good place, but understand that you are really your own head coach. Instead of complaining that your dojo is too traditional, or your instructor is not meeting your needs: You do the extra work, through video study, finding likeminded partners for extra drilling & sparring, going the extra mile to achieve what you want, in addition to following the dojo's standard curriculum. There is always an excuse to complain about, and there is always a way to succeed, no matter where you are. You pick whichever one of those two you choose.

 

[Evenflow80]

You also have to keep in mind, most students in a jiujitsu dojo are regular people, working regular jobs. They are not training to win ADCC -- or even their local IBJJF. Most of then will never compete on any serious level, if at all. So the priority is providing a positive experience, not making them into sharpened killers.

To that end, a prolonged warmup goes a long way towards preventing injuries. Especially in non-athletes, regular schlubs. So it's important for the masses.

On the flipside, when I took some of Danaher's classes in the blue basement, it was 2 weeks before ADCC 2019. This was a professional competitor environment. We literally had ZERO warmup -- people were chilling around talking, then Danaher quietly went to the center of the room and with no lineup or formality whatsoever, started showing the technique we were all to drill, speaking quietly. The room suddenly dropped to silence & everyone's attention turned there & it was like oh okay, I guess class is starting.

So it just depends on what the goal is. If you want to be a world champion, find a pro dojo. If you are most people who just want a good workout, but find the gym too boring and think jiujitsu is cool, find any reputable dojo.

However, there is a 3rd option. If you are not a pro, but still want to be a real ninja, then find any good place, but understand that you are really your own head coach. Instead of complaining that your dojo is too traditional, or your instructor is not meeting your needs: You do the extra work, through video study, finding likeminded partners for extra drilling & sparring, going the extra mile to achieve what you want, in addition to following the dojo's standard curriculum. There is always an excuse to complain about, and there is always a way to succeed, no matter where you are. You pick whichever one of those two you choose.

Two things :

1) I belong into the group of non-pro hobbyists. I still went into this to gain some self defense knowledge and stay in shape and get a strenous workout. All within an hour or so. With current format, it's impossible to get either.

2) by being a hobbyist and not doing this full time. How would I find the extra 30 minutes after class to get 5 or 6 solid rolls in? I had to stop going to noon classes becuase I had to rush to work as soon as hour was over.

So it's not just me "complaining", it's me genuinely wondering how the hell anyone is supposed to A) learn so many disparate techniques all crammed in an hour , and B) get good without enforced and actual hard sparring that is mandatory and part of thr class, not at optional addendum after it ends. The overall quality of training partners drastically increases because of this.

I do have Keenan Cornelius Legion close by, but I am hesitant to leave my gym after 7 years due to the friends I have there and loyalty to my coaches.

 

[HunterAcosta]

Two things :

1) I belong into the group of non-pro hobbyists. I still went into this to gain some self defense knowledge and stay in shape and get a strenous workout. All within an hour or so. With current format, it's impossible to get either.

2) by being a hobbyist and not doing this full time. How would I find the extra 30 minutes after class to get 5 or 6 solid rolls in? I had to stop going to noon classes becuase I had to rush to work as soon as hour was over.

So it's not just me "complaining", it's me genuinely wondering how the hell anyone is supposed to A) learn so many disparate techniques all crammed in an hour , and B) get good without enforced and actual hard sparring that is mandatory and part of thr class, not at optional addendum after it ends. The overall quality of training partners drastically increases because of this.

I do have Keenan Cornelius Legion close by, but I am hesitant to leave my gym after 7 years due to the friends I have there and loyalty to my coaches.

Train both places if you can swing it and afford it . That “ creonte “ Mentality should be long dead and you’re a paying customer .

 

[KikoJones]

Unpopular opinion:
Currently as a Brown belt I teach the White Belt (Fundamentals) Class. Most of those that attend my class are hobbyists and if it weren't for my class, they wouldn't do a Push up, Sit up, Shot/Sprawl, break fall, etc. I believe that I'm also teaching them to exercise.
Having them walk in straight to technique, have them practice for 10-15 min then have them Roll for 20 min is asking for injuries.
Maybe at Blue and above might have the discipline to do S&C outside of class or know enough to pace themselves until they're warmed up, but not White belts. They barely know their right from their left or their lapel from their pants.
Sometimes I wonder how they dressed themselves and made it through the day without being mutilating.
My class format is 10 min warmup, 5-10 min explain technique, 15-20 min drill, rest of the time is rolling.
Curriculum is broken down to:
Week 1 - Takedown (Single leg, Double Leg, Uchigari)
Week 2 - Passing open guard (Torreando, X-pass, knee slice)
Week 3 - Escape Close Guard (3 pass)
Week 4 - Attack from Closed Guard (3 attacks)
Week 5 - Escape Side Control (3 escapes)
Week 6 - Attacks from Side Control (3 attacks)
Week 7 - Escape Mount (3 escapes)
Week 8 - Attack from Mount (3 attacks)
Week 9 - Escape Back Control (3 escapes)
Week 10 - Attack from Back control (3 attacks)
Start over
Mon - First technique
Tue - Quickly review Mon and add 2nd technique
Wed - Quickly review Mon & Tue add 3rd technique,
Thu - Review all 3 techniques and positional sparring

The guys that actually like my class the most are the Blue Belts. Then know enough to actually ask smart questions about the details (pressure, hand placement, etc)
Fri - review all 3 techniques and rolling for most of the class
Those of us that have trained for a bit take a lot for granted. Beginners are dumber than a bag of hammers.

 

[maximus__]

The same exact 15 minute warmups (I can do jumping Jack's and sit ups on my own at home)

Followed by 3 (often totally different) techniques being taught by the professor, with you and your partner drilling it 5 or 6 minutes each.

All this squeezed into an hour. 3 techniques a day x 5 times a week = 15 techniques a week.

One question: why ? Aside from the obvious futility of learning 15 techniques a week , and not seeing them again for weeks or months later, why the damn rush?? Why cram so much in an hour and a week? Persumably you'll be doing bjj as long as you are able to physically. That could be decades.

Is this stupidity the norm? Or does my academy suck ? I got all excited because recently I've been running night classes (I'm a brown belt) and I do quick 5 minute warmups, one technique and drilling it , then last 30 minutes is 20 mins of conditional sparring based on that technique ( i.e if we drilled a closed guard escape, then if you escape guard or bottom person sybmits or sweeps, then you "win" and next person cycles in then followed by regular sparring.

Last 10 minutes is MANDATORY sparring. Our gym has people of all ages and genders and many leave after the hour and not spar at all.

It's been working great , night class people love how we actuslly break a sweat and can done in an hour to go home have dinner etc.

Is the warm up + cramming techniques in an hour then dismissing class and letting people roll or not after, the norm? It seems like such a dumb way of learning anything tbh

I can't imagine still training like that. We have a 6 month syllabus that repeats and gets adjusted each cycle covering off all the basic positions and areas followed by specific rolling starting from the positions. Throw in advanced classes with more rolling and people have a great understanding within a year or so of how to train. If I could make every training session, I would have all bases covered. We warm up with flow rolling or specific drills(break falls for takedowns).

I absolutely love it after having trained on and off for years.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

your classes are only an hour long? the gyms ive trained at either had longer classes, or they had 1 hour beginner and 1 hour advanced back to back and most advanced guys trained for both.

even my judo practices are longer than an hour and those are typically more physically demanding.

i dont think theres a fundamental problem with teaching 3 (or even more) techniques in a class. it all depends on a bunch of factorss, especially what audience youre teaching to.

 

[Evenflow80]

Train both places if you can swing it and afford it . That “ creonte “ Mentality should be long dead and you’re a paying customer .

I only pay $150 at my current gym for unlimited training, since I was one of thr first people to join back when it was new. Legion is super expensive, 3 days a week packaged is like $220 eith a 6 minute contract

 

[Evenflow80]

Unpopular opinion:
Currently as a Brown belt I teach the White Belt (Fundamentals) Class. Most of those that attend my class are hobbyists and if it weren't for my class, they wouldn't do a Push up, Sit up, Shot/Sprawl, break fall, etc. I believe that I'm also teaching them to exercise.
Having them walk in straight to technique, have them practice for 10-15 min then have them Roll for 20 min is asking for injuries.
Maybe at Blue and above might have the discipline to do S&C outside of class or know enough to pace themselves until they're warmed up, but not White belts. They barely know their right from their left or their lapel from their pants.
Sometimes I wonder how they dressed themselves and made it through the day without being mutilating.
My class format is 10 min warmup, 5-10 min explain technique, 15-20 min drill, rest of the time is rolling.
Curriculum is broken down to:
Week 1 - Takedown (Single leg, Double Leg, Uchigari)
Week 2 - Passing open guard (Torreando, X-pass, knee slice)
Week 3 - Escape Close Guard (3 pass)
Week 4 - Attack from Closed Guard (3 attacks)
Week 5 - Escape Side Control (3 escapes)
Week 6 - Attacks from Side Control (3 attacks)
Week 7 - Escape Mount (3 escapes)
Week 8 - Attack from Mount (3 attacks)
Week 9 - Escape Back Control (3 escapes)
Week 10 - Attack from Back control (3 attacks)
Start over
Mon - First technique
Tue - Quickly review Mon and add 2nd technique
Wed - Quickly review Mon & Tue add 3rd technique,
Thu - Review all 3 techniques and positional sparring

The guys that actually like my class the most are the Blue Belts. Then know enough to actually ask smart questions about the details (pressure, hand placement, etc)
Fri - review all 3 techniques and rolling for most of the class
Those of us that have trained for a bit take a lot for granted. Beginners are dumber than a bag of hammers.

Right, but even your white belt clases, last 20 minutes is rolling, and you're showing 1 technique. That's what I want

 

[dimmyfinster]

Unpopular opinion:
Currently as a Brown belt I teach the White Belt (Fundamentals) Class. Most of those that attend my class are hobbyists and if it weren't for my class, they wouldn't do a Push up, Sit up, Shot/Sprawl, break fall, etc. I believe that I'm also teaching them to exercise.
Having them walk in straight to technique, have them practice for 10-15 min then have them Roll for 20 min is asking for injuries.
Maybe at Blue and above might have the discipline to do S&C outside of class or know enough to pace themselves until they're warmed up, but not White belts. They barely know their right from their left or their lapel from their pants.
Sometimes I wonder how they dressed themselves and made it through the day without being mutilating.
My class format is 10 min warmup, 5-10 min explain technique, 15-20 min drill, rest of the time is rolling.
Curriculum is broken down to:
Week 1 - Takedown (Single leg, Double Leg, Uchigari)
Week 2 - Passing open guard (Torreando, X-pass, knee slice)
Week 3 - Escape Close Guard (3 pass)
Week 4 - Attack from Closed Guard (3 attacks)
Week 5 - Escape Side Control (3 escapes)
Week 6 - Attacks from Side Control (3 attacks)
Week 7 - Escape Mount (3 escapes)
Week 8 - Attack from Mount (3 attacks)
Week 9 - Escape Back Control (3 escapes)
Week 10 - Attack from Back control (3 attacks)
Start over
Mon - First technique
Tue - Quickly review Mon and add 2nd technique
Wed - Quickly review Mon & Tue add 3rd technique,
Thu - Review all 3 techniques and positional sparring

The guys that actually like my class the most are the Blue Belts. Then know enough to actually ask smart questions about the details (pressure, hand placement, etc)
Fri - review all 3 techniques and rolling for most of the class
Those of us that have trained for a bit take a lot for granted. Beginners are dumber than a bag of hammers.

Completely respect your opinion with respect to untrained people.

I do disagree with one thing though and almost all beginner and intermediate curriculums do this. The time focus is completely different from actual (sport) sparring. Actual sparring is 85% passing and guard and 15% everything else. Most curriculums are reversed. It is a slow way to improve at beginner, IMO.

Aoj really gets this right in my opinion at least from the sport point of view. They spend almost no time on escapes (if aoj online is any clue) and the majority of their classes focus on guard and passing.

 

[fishNjits]

The same exact 15 minute warmups (I can do jumping Jack's and sit ups on my own at home)

Followed by 3 (often totally different) techniques being taught by the professor, with you and your partner drilling it 5 or 6 minutes each.

All this squeezed into an hour. 3 techniques a day x 5 times a week = 15 techniques a week.

One question: why ? Aside from the obvious futility of learning 15 techniques a week , and not seeing them again for weeks or months later, why the damn rush?? Why cram so much in an hour and a week? Persumably you'll be doing bjj as long as you are able to physically. That could be decades.

Is this stupidity the norm? Or does my academy suck ? I got all excited because recently I've been running night classes (I'm a brown belt) and I do quick 5 minute warmups, one technique and drilling it , then last 30 minutes is 20 mins of conditional sparring based on that technique ( i.e if we drilled a closed guard escape, then if you escape guard or bottom person sybmits or sweeps, then you "win" and next person cycles in then followed by regular sparring.

Last 10 minutes is MANDATORY sparring. Our gym has people of all ages and genders and many leave after the hour and not spar at all.

It's been working great , night class people love how we actuslly break a sweat and can done in an hour to go home have dinner etc.

Is the warm up + cramming techniques in an hour then dismissing class and letting people roll or not after, the norm? It seems like such a dumb way of learning anything tbh

Get rid of the 5 minutes of warm up and another 5 from positional sparring and spend 10 on takedowns.

Start the sparring on the feet.

This is basically our morning class.

 

[Quebec Nick]

Depends on how you see the techniques

For me it's just a way to warmup and to get more and more mobility, coordination and basic understanding of bjj

I have my game, I'd say that a technique is useful like 1 out of 20 times that it will upgrade or give a new technique to my game. The other 19 times it makes me more aware of what other guys can do to me.

But we always have at least 30 minutes of rolling every class.

Also we don't have a curriculum, it's pretty much our super curious coach that puts on a theme at the beginning of every week and surf on it. A lot of times he takes some higher belt and make them show some stuff that he likes in their game.

 

[Matsukaze]

if the three techniques are chained together, I don't see the issue. As far as mandatory rolling, I can see this for the higher belts but not newbies .. gotta ease them into it