"3 techniques in 1 class" mentality

[KikoJones]

I appreciate everyone's opinion. I understand my approach is not the "Be All and End All". I'm always open to learn different ways. Thank you!
The academy's schedule is as follows:
10am - 12pm - Competition Training (Drills for 30 min then sparring for the balance of the time)
12pm - 1pm = All levels. (10 min warm up, 10-20 min technique and drilling, balance of time rolling)
5:20pm - 6:20pm = Kids
6:30 - 7:30pm = Fundamentals (White Belts) (Mat 1) Teens (Mat 2)
7:30pm - 9:00pm = Advanced class (Blue and up) Quick warm up or drills/technique/rolling for at least 45 min

** BTW - During Pans, Orlando Open & Kid's Pans we have an open mat that starts at 6:30pm until 9:00pm Wed, Thurs, Fri. OPEN TO EVERYONE (FREE)
Last year we had Roberto Jimenez drop in. Lots of Lucas Lepri guys from Charlotte. We're like 10-15 min from the event center
MJN Journey BJJ
915 Florida Ave, St Cloud, FL 34769
You guys are MORE than welcome to stop in anytime if you're visiting.

 

[Matsukaze]

I appreciate everyone's opinion. I understand my approach is not the "Be All and End All". I'm always open to learn different ways. Thank you!
The academy's schedule is as follows:
10am - 12pm - Competition Training (Drills for 30 min then sparring for the balance of the time)
12pm - 1pm = All levels. (10 min warm up, 10-20 min technique and drilling, balance of time rolling)
5:20pm - 6:20pm = Kids
6:30 - 7:30pm = Fundamentals (White Belts) (Mat 1) Teens (Mat 2)
7:30pm - 9:00pm = Advanced class (Blue and up) Quick warm up or drills/technique/rolling for at least 45 min

** BTW - During Pans, Orlando Open & Kid's Pans we have an open mat that starts at 6:30pm until 9:00pm Wed, Thurs, Fri. OPEN TO EVERYONE (FREE)
Last year we had Roberto Jimenez drop in. Lots of Lucas Lepri guys from Charlotte. We're like 10-15 min from the event center
MJN Journey BJJ
915 Florida Ave, St Cloud, FL 34769
You guys are MORE than welcome to stop in anytime if you're visiting.

Thats a busy schedule

 

[randomg1t]

i usually show about 3 techniques in a class, but they are related.

for instance, last class we drilled attacks from the side control. far side armbar, americana, kimura - depending on whether or not you have the underhook. we'll likely do the same today.

i don't think drilling 3 techniques is bad, as long as they follow a consistent pattern of progression, and aren't some obscure bullshit nobody uses.

 

[Evenflow80]

i usually show about 3 techniques in a class, but they are related.

for instance, last class we drilled attacks from the side control. far side armbar, americana, kimura - depending on whether or not you have the underhook. we'll likely do the same today.

i don't think drilling 3 techniques is bad, as long as they follow a consistent pattern of progression, and aren't some obscure bullshit nobody uses.

Ok but let me ask this, 3 techs a day, let's say 5 days a week, that's 15 techniques a week. Next week you'll do another 15, but let's say mount techniques.

When will you revisit either weeks techniques ? Weeks later? Months later ? Wouldn't it be far better if each techniques got thr time and attention it deserves for its week rather than be crammed in with 15 techniques and never drilled again until weeks or months later ?

 

[randomg1t]

Ok but let me ask this, 3 techs a day, let's say 5 days a week, that's 15 techniques a week. Next week you'll do another 15, but let's say mount techniques.

When will you revisit either weeks techniques ? Weeks later? Months later ? Wouldn't it be far better if each techniques got thr time and attention it deserves for its week rather than be crammed in with 15 techniques and never drilled again until weeks or months later ?

like i said, i run multiple classes doing the same technique, or with minor variations. i also only teach like 2 or 3 classes a week. on average, i'd say the people in my class learn 4 new things every week.

when framed the way you're saying it, all you're doing is replacing the issue. BJJ is extremely complex with a ridiculous number of techniques in a lot of positions. if we do 1 technique a week, how long will it take for people who train for a hobby to develop any kind of well rounded game? 6 years?

i'm not saying ramming 15 new unrelated moves down a whitebelt's throat is the way to go, i get the point of this thread. i'm saying teaching 3 sequential or related moves a class keeps it somewhat interesting for the student. i can show a butterfly sweep and have them drill that for the entire 40 minutes of drilling, and do that for 2 weeks. i'm sure everyone will improve greatly with that particular move. i'm also sure after 2 months, no one will be training with me anymore, because most people at my gym do BJJ for fun, not to make a career out of it. it takes a special kind of focus and dedication to the art to be able to just plug away hour after hour with the same move. i agree that it's incredibly effective, but it requires a lot more time on the mat, because the level of perfection you're aiming for is much higher.

 

[Evenflow80]

like i said, i run multiple classes doing the same technique, or with minor variations. i also only teach like 2 or 3 classes a week. on average, i'd say the people in my class learn 4 new things every week.

when framed the way you're saying it, all you're doing is replacing the issue. BJJ is extremely complex with a ridiculous number of techniques in a lot of positions. if we do 1 technique a week, how long will it take for people who train for a hobby to develop any kind of well rounded game? 6 years?

i'm not saying ramming 15 new unrelated moves down a whitebelt's throat is the way to go, i get the point of this thread. i'm saying teaching 3 sequential or related moves a class keeps it somewhat interesting for the student. i can show a butterfly sweep and have them drill that for the entire 40 minutes of drilling, and do that for 2 weeks. i'm sure everyone will improve greatly with that particular move. i'm also sure after 2 months, no one will be training with me anymore, because most people at my gym do BJJ for fun, not to make a career out of it. it takes a special kind of focus and dedication to the art to be able to just plug away hour after hour with the same move. i agree that it's incredibly effective, but it requires a lot more time on the mat, because the level of perfection you're aiming for is much higher.

I was thinking more along the lines of this :

Using your butterfly example, for the week, we will work on variations of bf sweep. If there isn't 5 variations for 5 days then a few can repeat. We would do 1 of those each class. Warmups + drilling that would take about 30 minutes or so, leaving 30 minutes of our 1 hour class. 15 minutes of that would be interval training , with theme being sweeping if your on bottom and passing or submitting if your on top. Winner stays and loses rotates with next in line.

After the 15 minutes, grt at least 3 rolls in, then end class. If you want to stay and roll more , that's fine, but everyone in the class got to:

1) drill a single technique so its single focus.
2) do interval training against resisting opponents with chance to use that sweep.
3) get some mandatory rolls in.

To me, this makes things far more focused than 3 techniques, even if related, on same class. It's a known fact people's attentions invariably start to wander when lectured to especially after a hard day at work.

Those are my thoughts anyways

 

[randomg1t]

I was thinking more along the lines of this :

Using your butterfly example, for the week, we will work on variations of bf sweep. If there isn't 5 variations for 5 days then a few can repeat. We would do 1 of those each class. Warmups + drilling that would take about 30 minutes or so, leaving 30 minutes of our 1 hour class. 15 minutes of that would be interval training , with theme being sweeping if your on bottom and passing or submitting if your on top. Winner stays and loses rotates with next in line.

After the 15 minutes, grt at least 3 rolls in, then end class. If you want to stay and roll more , that's fine, but everyone in the class got to:

1) drill a single technique so its single focus.
2) do interval training against resisting opponents with chance to use that sweep.
3) get some mandatory rolls in.

To me, this makes things far more focused than 3 techniques, even if related, on same class. It's a known fact people's attentions invariably start to wander when lectured to especially after a hard day at work.

Those are my thoughts anyways

sure, that works.

my classes are 90 minutes, though. i guess i get more leeway with what to do in a class.

 

[maximus__]

I was thinking more along the lines of this :

Using your butterfly example, for the week, we will work on variations of bf sweep. If there isn't 5 variations for 5 days then a few can repeat. We would do 1 of those each class. Warmups + drilling that would take about 30 minutes or so, leaving 30 minutes of our 1 hour class. 15 minutes of that would be interval training , with theme being sweeping if your on bottom and passing or submitting if your on top. Winner stays and loses rotates with next in line.

After the 15 minutes, grt at least 3 rolls in, then end class. If you want to stay and roll more , that's fine, but everyone in the class got to:

1) drill a single technique so its single focus.
2) do interval training against resisting opponents with chance to use that sweep.
3) get some mandatory rolls in.

To me, this makes things far more focused than 3 techniques, even if related, on same class. It's a known fact people's attentions invariably start to wander when lectured to especially after a hard day at work.

Those are my thoughts anyways

Do you mean specific training? not interval?

I actually prefer to work on the previous training blocks techniques when i roll. When people know what you are doing they react weird and block that technique really hard.
I enjoy specific drilling with good training partners, but in a random class format it becomes pretty hit and miss. People do weird things like stand up so you can't hit the butterfly sweep in the example and stuff like that.
It just sounds to me like you think your gym needs more rolling time.

 

[method115]

The most I’ve done is two. Current school does one. I prefer one technique a class and then just straight rolling.

 

[Matsukaze]

The most I’ve done is two. Current school does one. I prefer one technique a class and then just straight rolling.

I believe this is how it's done mostly in Brazil .. a technique or two then straight to rolling

 

[fan of fanboys]

my last gym did the 3 techniques per class, rarely related, and it might be months (or more) before it came back around. coming from a wrestling background, it was not ideal.

the new gym has a theme each week. say it is closed guard. so each class is working stuff from closed guard. you get 2 techniques, maybe some variations but you drill what you prefer from those, and you get more drill time and you get all related stuff. I drastically prefer this method. one class or five classes, you get a lot of things to build on.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Two things :

1) I belong into the group of non-pro hobbyists. I still went into this to gain some self defense knowledge and stay in shape and get a strenous workout. All within an hour or so. With current format, it's impossible to get either.

2) by being a hobbyist and not doing this full time. How would I find the extra 30 minutes after class to get 5 or 6 solid rolls in? I had to stop going to noon classes becuase I had to rush to work as soon as hour was over.

So it's not just me "complaining", it's me genuinely wondering how the hell anyone is supposed to A) learn so many disparate techniques all crammed in an hour , and B) get good without enforced and actual hard sparring that is mandatory and part of thr class, not at optional addendum after it ends. The overall quality of training partners drastically increases because of this.

I do have Keenan Cornelius Legion close by, but I am hesitant to leave my gym after 7 years due to the friends I have there and loyalty to my coaches.

This has been my experience as well and is the reason I stopped doing BJJ and started judo.
The totally improvised "curriculum" never ever made sense to me.

 

[Chandler sama]

The problem is that the class format doesn't work for for BJJ. There are too many moves and different ways to do things and so teaching it like other subjects doesn't make sense. Whatever technique you teach will be worthless(maybe that is too strong) to a large number of people you teach it to. If you teach heelhooks, but half the class only does gi then you might have wasted a lot of people's time.

I think what Lachlan Giles is trying is a better approach. Learn outside of class and use class to practice and improve your technique. The teacher can then be used for guidance instead of pure instruction. This doesn't apply to beginners, but I think it would help people who already have a "game".

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

Unpopular opinion:
Currently as a Brown belt I teach the White Belt (Fundamentals) Class. Most of those that attend my class are hobbyists and if it weren't for my class, they wouldn't do a Push up, Sit up, Shot/Sprawl, break fall, etc. I believe that I'm also teaching them to exercise.
Having them walk in straight to technique, have them practice for 10-15 min then have them Roll for 20 min is asking for injuries.
Maybe at Blue and above might have the discipline to do S&C outside of class or know enough to pace themselves until they're warmed up, but not White belts. They barely know their right from their left or their lapel from their pants.
Sometimes I wonder how they dressed themselves and made it through the day without being mutilating.
My class format is 10 min warmup, 5-10 min explain technique, 15-20 min drill, rest of the time is rolling.

Fri - review all 3 techniques and rolling for most of the class
Those of us that have trained for a bit take a lot for granted. Beginners are dumber than a bag of hammers.

I think your approach and format for your class is great. I thin most people are confusing the needs for their particular group. I assume most of the people whining about the class format at their gym are blue belts and above, who are either attending their intermediate or advanced classes.
I agree with your approach for your group of clientele, and that many just need to get moving and condition their bodies and learn the techniques. For intro level-fundamentals, nothing is wrong with the format. I also think classes for this group should not be more than 1 hour.

For intermediate level-advanced and competition classes, I don't see the point of long exercise warm ups.

i don't think drilling 3 techniques is bad, as long as they follow a consistent pattern of progression, and aren't some obscure bullshit nobody uses.

I've dropped into a school and the instructor literally showed 3 completely unrelated techniques. It was
1) closed guard overhook cross collar choke, 2) lasso guard inverted rolling omoplata, and ended with 3) straight footlock from top open guard. I have no idea what was going through the instructors head but just drilled the 3 moves to the best of my focus

 

[BJJ Lover]

The same exact 15 minute warmups (I can do jumping Jack's and sit ups on my own at home)

Those warm-ups reduce the chance of injury. They loosen up your body and are good for strength & conditioning for people who do BJJ for fun.

Followed by 3 (often totally different) techniques being taught by the professor, with you and your partner drilling it 5 or 6 minutes each.

I agree this is too much for some people, including me. Gets overwhelming and mentally draining. 1 technique should be enough.

All this squeezed into an hour. 3 techniques a day x 5 times a week = 15 techniques a week.

I think rolling is the most important but some people have health problems and more time spent on warm ups and technique training is good for them.

One question: why ? Aside from the obvious futility of learning 15 techniques a week , and not seeing them again for weeks or months later, why the damn rush?? Why cram so much in an hour and a week? Persumably you'll be doing bjj as long as you are able to physically. That could be decades.

It works for some people, just not ideal for us maybe.

Is this stupidity the norm? Or does my academy suck ? I got all excited because recently I've been running night classes (I'm a brown belt) and I do quick 5 minute warmups, one technique and drilling it , then last 30 minutes is 20 mins of conditional sparring based on that technique ( i.e if we drilled a closed guard escape, then if you escape guard or bottom person sybmits or sweeps, then you "win" and next person cycles in then followed by regular sparring.

It is definitely the norm but some people criticize it. Ben Askren thinks it's a huge flaw in Jiu-jitsu and that the BJJ system would be better if it resembled wrestling more.

Last 10 minutes is MANDATORY sparring. Our gym has people of all ages and genders and many leave after the hour and not spar at all.

Sparring is the most important, but it's weird that it's mandatory. Some people come in with injuries and want to improve without rolling because they don't want to get the injury aggravated. Actually forcing people to spar is weird.

It's been working great , night class people love how we actuslly break a sweat and can done in an hour to go home have dinner etc.

Is the warm up + cramming techniques in an hour then dismissing class and letting people roll or not after, the norm? It seems like such a dumb way of learning anything tbh

Fair criticism. Again, works for some people and doesn't work for others.

most people who do BJJ just do it as a hobby and for enjoyment. It's not bad for them.

I like the system overall too. 3 techniques is too much for me but I try my best anyway and just go with the flow.

 

[Foppa21]

Ok but let me ask this, 3 techs a day, let's say 5 days a week, that's 15 techniques a week. Next week you'll do another 15, but let's say mount techniques.

When will you revisit either weeks techniques ? Weeks later? Months later ? Wouldn't it be far better if each techniques got thr time and attention it deserves for its week rather than be crammed in with 15 techniques and never drilled again until weeks or months later ?

15 different techniques was way too many per week. Unless you continue training in your own time, the 60-90 mins per class, split between loosening up and sparring, you simply do no get enough reps to embed and build the muscle memory necessary, IMO.

My team, we pick a theme/position for about 3-4 week blocks. Show base techniques through the week. With the different instructors through the week, there's usually enough little variation in preference and concepts that certain instructors like to show and think about the game that students will get enough viewpoints into the same technique to consider but in essence, if you show up to a class a day, 5 days, you will drill essentially the same technique all up one hour in total.

 

[shunyata]

15 different techniques was way too many per week. Unless you continue training in your own time, the 60-90 mins per class, split between loosening up and sparring, you simply do no get enough reps to embed and build the muscle memory necessary, IMO.

My team, we pick a theme/position for about 3-4 week blocks. Show base techniques through the week. With the different instructors through the week, there's usually enough little variation in preference and concepts that certain instructors like to show and think about the game that students will get enough viewpoints into the same technique to consider but in essence, if you show up to a class a day, 5 days, you will drill essentially the same technique all up one hour in total.

We'll usually do three per class but they're related as a chain or branches from a similar starting position.

Then, it's not 15 per week it's those same techniques every night all week, broken up by some nights being 90% live training (positional or free).