International 38 million became rufugees as result if War on Terror/Islam

[Satan's Daddy.]

Terrible disaster and notice the posters ITT basically saying "welp, guess that was that but fuck the refugees"

They think its okay to invade other countries, smash them to pieces, leave the surrounding countries to deal with the mess, and after all this they probably wonder why these countries are shitholes and why they hate us. Dogshit human beings.

Yes but they can't generalize us all because of a small group of people like the military & governments for their agenda. "It's to keep us safe" etc. Etc.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Syria was not part of the war on terror. It was a shitty thing to do to try to oust Assad and destabilizing the country, but we don’t have to make shit up.

The situation in Syria went the way it did in part because of the instability in Iraq. And Western powers did take action against ISIS there though to be fair Assad's forces were probably the most destructive faction due to having the capabilities of a modern state.

 

[12ga.]

Interesting how you compare terrorism to Islam in the thread title.

You are mistaken or perhaps I was not clear. I was referring to war's titles by parties. Some call it a war on terror. Many began to see it as a war on Islam with way we were so casual about civilian deaths and Islamophobia was mainstreamed in Academia/media.

 

[12ga.]

US and other NATO allies should be held accountable. At the very least the past few presidents and JCOS should be jailed for war crimes.

Obama punted like he punted on torture and Bush war crimes BP spills everything else and became a servant of Wall Street. Even his grand accomplishment - getting HC to 16 million who didnt have it before - he made strapped middle class pay more in premiums and wealthy zero and HC stocks doubled.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I don’t remember millions of German “refugees” migrating to England after WW2.

It's true. The US was very selective and only took in and protected from prosecution the smartest Nazi scientists.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Terrible disaster and notice the posters ITT basically saying "welp, guess that was that but fuck the refugees"

They think its okay to invade other countries, smash them to pieces, leave the surrounding countries to deal with the mess, and after all this they probably wonder why these countries are shitholes and why they hate us. Dogshit human beings.

Wait until they find out about the scramble for africa.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You are mistaken or perhaps I was not clear. I was referring to war's titles by parties. Some call it a war on terror. Many began to see it as a war on Islam with way we were so casual about civilian deaths and Islamophobia was mainstreamed in Academia/media.

I figured that was how you meant it.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Obama punted like he punted on torture and Bush war crimes and everything else and became a servant of Wall Street. Even his grand accomplishment - getting HC to 16 million who didnt have it before - he made strapped middle class pay more in premiums and wealthy zero and HC stocks doubled.

The sulfurous fog of the Trump years must never allow these truths to be forgotten.

 

[A.S. Deep]

Still think it's a good idea? Turkey has Europe "over the barrel" hosting like 5 million not to mention those who slipped through. Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia list goes on and on. We invaded and got invaded.

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2021/Costs of War_Vine et al_Displacement Update August 2021.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2YkC9KbpIqt6ngCFY0LMXHpv0JFBbYNvsfZpJBdGeWiC7bx5-2MC4ZqLU

George W Bush bless


* Obviously our disgusting foreign policy in the Middle East started before George W.

 

[12ga.]

Syria was not part of the war on terror. It was a shitty thing to do to try to oust Assad and destabilizing the country, but we don’t have to make shit up.

What's Ironic is we support the Islamists in Syria and Libya with TOW anti tank missles even and not in Afghanistan. We Supported Shi'a militias who killed US troops in Iraq. It's just a policy of mass destruction if you step back and look at whole picture. No consistency all hypocrisy.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

The French also killed hundreds of thousands, some estimates go as high as one million, Algerian Muslims in the Algerian war for independence during the early 1960s.

The west has spent the last century bringing carnage and death to the Islamic countries, slaughtering people on a scale that, if the roles were reversed, we would respond too with nuclear weapons.

 

[12ga.]

The French also killed hundreds of thousands, some estimates go as high as one million, Algerian Muslims in the Algerian war for independence during the late 1960s.

The west has spent the last century bringing carnage and death to the Islamic countries, slaughtering people on a scale that, if the roles were reversed, we would respond too with nuclear weapons.

Same with Italians and mass murderer Gen Rodolfo Graziani in Libya. Concentration camps millions dead whole nine.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Same with Italians and mass murderer Gen Rodolfo Graziani in Libya. Concentration camps millions dead whole nine.

Christianity is the religion of peace tho right

 

[12ga.]

Christianity is the religion of peace tho right

Colonization never ended. The declared motives may change, Great White Burden, Christianity, Democracy for public consumption but at the end of the day it's cold hard cash and as of late removing state resistance to Israel's little colonization project.

 

[Islam Imamate]

The French also killed hundreds of thousands, some estimates go as high as one million, Algerian Muslims in the Algerian war for independence during the late 1960s.

The west has spent the last century bringing carnage and death to the Islamic countries, slaughtering people on a scale that, if the roles were reversed, we would respond too with nuclear weapons.

Not even just the last century, its the last two centuries. You mentioned Algeria, the war of liberation was bloody but so to was the original pacification of Algeria where hundreds of thousands of Algerians were killed. The Russians also committed genocide against the Circassians in the 19th century and of course there are the numerous famines in Bengal during British rule which in total killed tens of millions of South Asians.

Christianity is the religion of peace tho right

To be fair Western governments during this time frame aren't really Christian in the way that they once were. They weren't not like the Spanish and Portuguese empires which were more consciously invested in converting the conquered and imposing a public order based on Catholicism. The French were openly anti-theist and even the British, who had a state church, were very much willing to allow the conquered to keep their religion and traditions. In some cases the colonizers had disputes with missionaries because the latter's activities could provoke revolts and discontent among the colonized and the colonizers, especially the British, were more interested in resources extraction and controlling a captive market than spreading the good news.

The most "missionary" colonizers were the French and they were spreading the values of the French Revolution, not Christianity.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Colonization never ended. The declared motives may change, Great White Burden, Christianity, Democracy for public consumption but at the end of the day it's cold hard cash and as of late removing state resistance to Israel's little colonization project.

Well, I suspect decolonization actually took a major hit when Britain left India and the USSR moved in behind them. It is never mentioned, but, the USA was pushing hard for decolonization (replacing it with “sphere of influence” control methods) until Indias relationship with the Soviet Union became a serious consideration in the Cold War.

That relationship was a result of an American push for the British and French to start decolonizing.But when England left, it wasn’t America who moved into India.

Truman in particular wanted the “internationalization” of major water ways like the Suez, Panama Canal, straights of Gibraltar, etc.

Once they saw what might happen as a consequence of total decolonization, that is, someone else just coming in, they seem to have started to adjust their methods.

 

[12ga.]

Well, I suspect decolonization actually took a major hit when Britain left India and the USSR moved in behind them. It is never mentioned, but, the USA was pushing hard for decolonization (replacing it with “sphere of influence” control methods) until India’s relationship with the Soviet Union became a major factor in the Cold War. That relationship was a result of an American push for the British and French to start decolonization. But when England left, it wasn’t America who moved into India.

Truman in particular wanted the “internationalization” of major water ways like the Suez, Panama Canal, straights of Gibraltar, etc.

Once they saw what might happen as a consequence of total decolonization, that is, someone else just coming in, they started to adjust their methods.

I think that's a myth. We support vassals who sell oil to us cheap and recycle the petrol dollars to western contractors now. Notice we ask zero of them to remake their country in our image unless they are not on board such as Iraq when Saddam went off the reservation, or Kaddafi, or post 79' Iran. You either be a vassal to USA/EUs demands and employ us for exorbitant sums or you're on the hit list and well talk about human rights and democracy. It's just a more nuanced and sophisticated colonialism now. We don't want democracy in reality proof is we overthrow them like in Iran 53' or Egypt (MB/SISI) when implemented we want vassals.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

I think that's a myth. We support vassals who sell oil to us cheap and recycle the petrol dollars to western contractors now. Notice we ask zero of them to remake their country in our image unless they are not on board such as Iraq when Saddam went off the reservation, or Kaddafi, or post 79' Iran. You either be a vassal to USA/EUs demands and employ us for exorbitant sums or you're on the hit list and well talk about human rights and democracy. It's just a more nuanced and sophisticated colonialism now. We don't want democracy in reality proof is we overthrow them like in Iran 53' or Egypt (MB/SISI) when implemented we want vassals.

I agree with your sentiment, although I don’t think the feudal term “vassal” applies as well as “client state” - and that might sound like semantics, but I think there’s a real difference in the way a colonial vassal and a client state operate. The U.S. would never ask a member of their global empire to garrison an American base in the USA for example, while the British would have been fine with Indians or Canadians serving as garrison troops as well as on the front lines as a part of a combined imperial army.

 

[Yehudim]

The situation in Syria went the way it did in part because of the instability in Iraq. And Western powers did take action against ISIS there though to be fair Assad's forces were probably the most destructive faction due to having the capabilities of a modern state.

The Assad regime is the greatest contributor to refugees and while it did eventually become part of the war on terror, it was unequivocally the right thing to do to combat them and the results were fantastic, anyways.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Not even just the last century, its the last two centuries. You mentioned Algeria, the war of liberation was bloody but so to was the original pacification of Algeria where hundreds of thousands of Algerians were killed. The Russians also committed genocide against the Circassians in the 19th century and of course there are the numerous famines in Bengal during British rule which in total killed tens of millions of South Asians.

To be fair Western governments during this time frame aren't really Christian in the way that they once were. They weren't not like the Spanish and Portuguese empires which were more consciously invested in converting the conquered and imposing a public order based on Catholicism. The French were openly anti-theist and even the British, who had a state church, were very much willing to allow the conquered to keep their religion and traditions. In some cases the colonizers had disputes with missionaries because the latter's activities could provoke revolts and discontent among the colonized and the colonizers, especially the British, were more interested in resources extraction and controlling a captive market than spreading the good news.

The most "missionary" colonizers were the French and they were spreading the values of the French Revolution, not Christianity.

Yes, of course that’s true, we in the west have that “secular humanism” that I love so much.

But I believe that religion is used cynically by those in power to rally troops and justify crimes. I don’t think we could colonize and invade the way we do without Christianity; I might be wrong, but I just don’t see it.

Not being “explicitly Christian” matters, but I could easily see the massacre of Christians in any country being used as an excuse for a western nation to invade someone “non-western.” George Wallace often referred to Hitler as Satan during WW2, and so on. The rhetoric is there, and it induces an “othering” that secular humanism was meant to wipe out.

French Revolutionary governments legitimately made attempts at de-colonization too! The real secular governments made actual moves in that direction. Haiti for example, until Napoleon, was the shining star of western decolonization as justified by a secular “citizen government” under Robespierre. (He was literally beheading slavers and slave owners.)