A catch wrestlers thoughts

[nefti]

John Strickland is a catch wrestler who runs a blog online about martial arts, mainly focusing on catch wrestling, seeing as that’s the one he’s most proficient/has the most experience in.

Here’s what Strickland he had to say about BJJ, his thoughts on the martial art,

1. Nobody seems to know what actual Catch Wrestling is. They seem to think it’s amateur wrestling mixed with other arts. Basically creating a self made system and applying a name that’s not appropriate. (Where there’s a student there was a teacher and you can follow that evidence rather easily. Personally I don’t care who that upsets. This alone killed the comeback before it could even start.)

2. Legit catch practitioners lack an association of checks and balances. (You don’t claim a Blackbelt of any rank in JJ if it’s not true. Those who have are normally called out.)

3. There’s enough legit coaches in the world for this art to spread correctly but many start coaching way too soon and don’t even fully known the system in a competitive sense yet much less of making someone else legit.

4. Without structure there’s random chaos.

5. Having clubs and affiliates is a good thing as long as the top has a minimum of ten years training.

6. Basically as above , Catch is assumed to be ( anyone can be whoever they wish) system and thus allowing anyone to teach coach etc. It’s been a way for frauds to easily enter and idiots to follow. I was an idiot but with factual evidence found legit coaching.

7. There were far too few old timers ( experts) left when the style regained popularity. Those handful of people can’t replace thousands of Blackbelt like in JJ.

8. JJ got the early start with the Vale Tudo.

9. Ive seen some today claim Hulk Hogan as a catch guy. I’m serious and that’s sad. It’s like saying you took a class in biology and are now a doctor.

10. The early figures in the modern era turned out to be fakes and liars. Just call it submission grappling and that’s fine but their lying gave the style a very bad image. In fact I’m skeptical on most claims today. Legit coaches will produce legit players who should fairly easily walk through the scammers.

And if this hurts feelings I don’t care.

Jon Strickland

http://onthemat.com/catch-wrestlers-tell-us-what-they-really-think-about-brazilian-jiu-jitsu/

 

[tekkenfan]

i say catch wrestling truly a dead art as a system every catch guy iv ever trained with had a totally different out look bjj usually has a system theirs tons of different games but we all have the same fundamentals basically catch doesnt have a system it reminds me of the broad term of japanese jiu jitsu as each gyms different basically

 

[Blake_UK]

i say catch wrestling truly a dead art as a system every catch guy iv ever trained with had a totally different out look bjj usually has a system theirs tons of different games but we all have the same fundamentals basically catch doesnt have a system it reminds me of the broad term of japanese jiu jitsu as each gyms different basically

That’s kind of the point tho - “Catch as catch can” is basically the original “no holds barred” grappling. The idea was that all styles (including later especially when it went to the states Asian arts like jujitsu) could compete.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Feel like the Snake Pit don't help. It's a war for me to get any response from them at all about potential training and I never hear of them running classes. There are a few places that teach proper catch wrestling in the UK. Chris Foran at Premier MMA is legit and so is Chris Crossan, and his student BAMMA fighter Wendle Lewis.

But it's hard to find good coaching, and so much catch knowledge is being held behind pay walls.

 

[cheachea]

I think Curran Jacobs is going to release a DVD through bjj fanatics soon.

Hopefully it will show some Catch Neck Cranks, Rips, Hooks and lesser known variations of holds that we already know about.

 

[cheachea]

One variation that I've seen in Catch is when someone is going for an Americana (Top Wrist Lock / Key Lock) they twist the wrist making the opponents palm go towards the ground and it makes the hold more painful and uncomfortable.

Tony Cecchine shows it here :

Edit : He says that he is not twisting and just has a particular grip on the wrist.

 

[Human Bass]

It really is a waste of time to think too much about catch. It's all grappling now. Just enjoy the fact that you have easy access to great training way more than ever dreamed in a not so distant past.

 

[Oleg Raktatov]

That’s kind of the point tho - “Catch as catch can” is basically the original “no holds barred” grappling. The idea was that all styles (including later especially when it went to the states Asian arts like jujitsu) could compete.

Might wanna look at this :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_wrestling
Https:://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

 

[Oleg Raktatov]

It really is a waste of time to think too much about catch. It's all grappling now. Just enjoy the fact that you have easy access to great training way more than ever dreamed in a not so distant past.

Yup, if its grappling, learn it. Then mix it all.

its fun

 

[thugpoet]

It's really just grappling. Without the pin catch looks like no gi bjj.

Catch is a rule set not a series of moves

 

[Oleg Raktatov]

It's really just grappling. Without the pin catch looks like no gi bjj.

Catch is a rule set not a series of moves

I passed the last few years studying and incorporating shoot-wrestling (japanese catch) techniques and concepts into my jiujitsu. Just like i did with judo and sambo. And Maybe i'm slow or stupid, but there seems to be alot more to it than you think...

 

[rmongler]

I passed the last few years studying and incorporating shoot-wrestling (japanese catch) techniques and concepts into my jiujitsu. Just like i did with judo and sambo. And Maybe i'm slow or stupid, but there seems to be alot more to it than you think...

Techniques and concepts developed in response to achieving success under such conditions that incentivize them.

A fighter's style is a product of his training style; and training styles are a function of the competitions being trained for.

 

[cheachea]

Would you guys say that one of the biggest differences between Catch and BJJ is Rips, Hooks and Neck Cranks ?

I've asked this in the past, but I wanted to know did Heels Hooks and Toe Holds come from Catch or BJJ ?

 

[cheachea]

It's really just grappling. Without the pin catch looks like no gi bjj.

Catch is a rule set not a series of moves

It seems like everything is pretty much just mixed at this point into "Nogi Submission Grappling" .

Submission Only Grappling / Jiu jitsu Events and ADCC are the most entertaining events to watch now in my opinion.

Guys like Garry Tonon seem to use everything and make the events exciting.

 

[tekkenfan]

Feel like the Snake Pit don't help. It's a war for me to get any response from them at all about potential training and I never hear of them running classes. There are a few places that teach proper catch wrestling in the UK. Chris Foran at Premier MMA is legit and so is Chris Crossan, and his student BAMMA fighter Wendle Lewis.

But it's hard to find good coaching, and so much catch knowledge is being held behind pay walls.

un fortunately with the catch system iv trained with bunch of guys who use tot rave teahcing seminars seems lots of them do well due to athleticism strength not flowing technique

 

[tekkenfan]

Techniques and concepts developed in response to achieving success under such conditions that incentivize them.

A fighter's style is a product of his training style; and training styles are a function of the competitions being trained for.

which is why i guess catch hasnt seen any evolution even for the small groups doing it as their isnt many tournaments for it when rule changes happen arts evolve like judo bjj as well

 

[thugpoet]

I passed the last few years studying and incorporating shoot-wrestling (japanese catch) techniques and concepts into my jiujitsu. Just like i did with judo and sambo. And Maybe i'm slow or stupid, but there seems to be alot more to it than you think...

Maybe but how much of that is less " style" and more " this is how I do x technique?"

It's ruleset based. The reason bjj is the bar is because for the most part if a move is effective then it's far game. Sambo, catch, judo etc all have rules that enforce certain skills. I don't care much for styles I just want to tap people out on the most efficient way possible

 

[thugpoet]

Would you guys say that one of the biggest differences between Catch and BJJ is Rips, Hooks and Neck Cranks ?

I've asked this in the past, but I wanted to know did Heels Hooks and Toe Holds come from Catch or BJJ ?

That's a safe assumption. There's not much evidence of leg locks in early bjj unlike catch. There was also a ton of commingling in the early days so there's that.

 

[rmongler]

Maybe but how much of that is less " style" and more " this is how I do x technique?"

It's ruleset based. The reason bjj is the bar for me is because i train bjj, so for the most part if a move is effective for bjj then it's far game. Sambo, catch, judo, bjj etc all have rules that enforce certain skills. I don't care much for styles I just want to tap people out on the most efficient way possible in bjj so i care about styles

ftfy

 

[thugpoet]

ftfy

Actually i train sub only no gi. I am a white belt in bjj but have been training no gi for a decade. Some call what I do bjj which is fine but we always just called it wrestling.