Adding to your submission repertoire

[HuskySamoan]

Title says it all, how did you/do you add to your submission arsenal? Any advice or stories are appreciated.

As someone with good wrestling and passing (years ago from 18-20 those were my main focuses with grappling as an amateur fighter) I established a game around that since strikes from the top are so effective and my school focused on Sambo and No Gi so despite going to a few grappling tournaments I never owned a gi in that time either. I always was a good back taker, had a strong head and arm and north south, along with rear nakeds of course and occasional wrist locks. My leg locks were always decent since the gym owner was big on them, I was much better at achilles and heel hooks rather than kneebars though. Its hard to say what I did from bottom in those days because I just almost never was on bottom unless drilling.

Fast forward to 2020 and getting back into things, I'm competing in March and I began grappling in November again, while I am often competitive with higher belts I have the humbling experience of owning my first gi and wrapping a white belt around it. I am heavy now, Ill compete at 224.9 but in an ideal world it would be 189.9 so with that in mind and also just quickly establishing dominance with most everyone in my no gi classes (thankfully theres a stable of 5-6 dudes that are 190-250 ranging from brown to white to work with) I decided to work from guard a lot and was shocked at my sweep game being so effective, how quickly throwing up triangles and omoplatas came back to me and Ive worked a lot on reclaiming guard from mount and side control and got comfortable using lockdown in half guard and I always liked using butterflys. My armbars also got a lot better, from top I hate giving up the position so I wouldn't ever go for them, my armbars still are not great along with my guillotines, I just have such a low attempt rate. I like the Kimura from guard but Im much slicker at getting it from top, as a big strong guy the Americana and Kimura have become huge asseta for me these past 5 months.

Ive been trying to work more from the front headlock position, Ive always liked the darce and anaconda but they arent my most dialed in submissions and my guillotines and neck ties are meh. Im really good at spinning to the back from the front headlock though. So that's where Im at, Ive been working a lot on broadening my skillset, becoming comfortable across the spectrum of submissions where historically I always wanted to build a game around my strengths and impose them. Its been a fun experience and as things open back up I cannot wait to mix it up at open mats and other gyms and just keep learning. Going to spar and learn from some competitive Judokas this week as well.

 

[Pizza Werewolf]

I think you mean repertoire?

 

[HuskySamoan]

I think you mean repertoire?

Just ROLL with it

 

[Pizza Werewolf]

Just ROLL with it

Worrrrrddddd.

 

[judoka loca]

You can only add to your game if you're not afraid of failure. Investment in loss is what Josh Waitzkin calls it in his book; basically, if you want to get good at something, you'll have to spend time being bad at it first.

Take a technique or a concept, learn it at its base level, and go try it on people. Higher level white and "hobbyist" blue belts are good test dummies for this, because their games are more developed than a beginner but offer more leeway than say, a competitive blue or purple.

After that, look at the responses they're giving you and how it's affecting your application of said technique. If it's not working, go back to where you learned it from and look for more details to fill in the gaps. Ask around the gym, watch YouTube videos from different people on the subject, try to visualize the move in your head.

Show up to class or open mat with a game plan (today I will work on sweeping from _____), etc. Too many people just go through the motions. For your purposes, a few quality training sessions are better than hundreds of mindless rolls.

It's all about putting yourself out there. Some techniques will click for you right away, some won't. Just keep putting in focused hours and they will come.

 

[Minnja]

My triangles and armbars from guard have always been week so I started spamming them basically nonstop in rolling whenever I get put in closed guard. I'm not GOOD at them now but I am much better at them than I used to be and can pretty much get it effortlessly on most white belts (I know very impressive lol) and it's decently threatening enough to blue and higher to the point where at the least I may be able to chain into a sweep attempt or getup sometimes.

Whenever I want to git gud at a submission I pretty much focus solely on trying to get it when I roll. I did the same for ezekials in full mount and canto choke from side control.

 

[Peteyandjia]

If you want to expand your arsenal of submissions: rather than just adding a bunch of subs onto your game randomly, I think it’s a good starting point to set the goal of having at least 2 attacks from every position. So you’d put in the work to have 2 from mount, 2 from the back, 2 from front headlock, 2 from every different form of side control, etc. that you really learn, drill, practice, & try to hit in rolls. This will get you thinking positionally, as well as upping your submissions arsenal at the same time, killing two birds with one stone as you go along your journey.

 

[EndlessCritic]

This may sound rambling, but it is the truth.

I generally need to be inspired to want to try something new. And by inspired, I mean I need to "see" something "new". This is to say, something I have in fact looked at 1000 times before, but for some reason, a new detail has caught my eye. Wanting to implement that new detail is usually what inspires me to try to make a new move work.

Most recently for me it was the shaolin sweep. I literally have known about this technique for over a decade, but it never really worked all that well for me, and I put it aside. A black belt showed me at a seminar a small detail, and all of a sudden I was sweeping 250+ lb guys with it.

God I want to get back on the mats.

 

[Peteyandjia]

A black belt showed me at a seminar a small detail, and all of a sudden I was sweeping 250+ lb guys with it.

I’m curious, can you explain what was the small detail?

 

[EndlessCritic]

I’m curious, can you explain what was the small detail?

I just watched about 10 shaolin sweep videos on youtube, and none of them showed it, though there's a reasonable explanation for that.

Most of the time, the shaolin sweep is demonstrated from the knee shield position. I have a very good knee shield half guard, but I have never been able to get the shaolin sweep to work from there.

The shaolin sweep version I was shown involves the situation where your hips are connected to your opponent, and you end up in a reverse half scenario. Similar to what Firas shows here at 6:15, though a different arm configuration.



Firas is showing an octopus variation where his left arm is over top of his opponent's back, and he's chaining the shaolin sweep off of other techniques. Perfectly high level stuff.

In my variation my left arm is not around my opponent's back, but is rather posting on my opponent's left arm (ideally either grabbing the sleeve at the wrist or elbow area). This point shouldn't be controversial.

The magic is with my right hand. The goal is to take your right hand and jam your opponent's left leg (the one not between your legs) into your own hip. You can usually do this just by grabbing his pant leg at his knee.

From here, with my left arm posting on my opponent's left arm, and my right hand jamming my opponent's left leg, all I am going to do is slightly tilt my hips to the left. What this is supposed to accomplish is ever so slightly take my opponent's weight off of his left knee. Once the weight comes off his left knee, the shaolin sweep is effortless.

 

[Peteyandjia]

I just watched about 10 shaolin sweep videos on youtube, and none of them showed it, though there's a reasonable explanation for that.

Most of the time, the shaolin sweep is demonstrated from the knee shield position. I have a very good knee shield half guard, but I have never been able to get the shaolin sweep to work from there.

The shaolin sweep version I was shown involves the situation where your his are connected to your opponent, and you end up in a reverse half scenario. Similar to what Firas shows here at 6:15, though a different arm configuration.



Firas is showing an octopus variation where his left arm is over top of his opponent's back, and he's chaining the shaolin sweep off of other techniques. Perfectly high level stuff.

In my variation my left arm is not around my opponent's back, but is rather posting on my opponent's left arm (ideally either grabbing the sleeve at the wrist or elbow area). This point shouldn't be controversial.

The magic is with my right hand. The goal is to take your right hand and jam your opponent's left leg (the one not between your legs) into your own hip. You can usually do this just by grabbing his pant leg at his knee.

From here, with my left arm posting on my opponent's left arm, and my right hand jamming my opponent's left leg, all I am going to do is slightly tilt my hips to the left. What this is supposed to accomplish is ever so slightly take my opponent's weight off of his left knee. Once the weight comes off his left knee, the shaolin sweep is effortless.

Glad I asked. This variation sounds very interesting, and your description is very well-detailed. Thanks!

 

[EndlessCritic]

Glad I asked. This variation sounds very interesting, and your description is very well-detailed. Thanks!

Keep in mind, the most important prerequisite is that your opponent's left elbow is pinned by your hip. If he can bring his elbow up closer to your head, he is winning the reverse half position, and this isn't likely to work.

It's just generally good advice that if your opponent attempts to go reverse half, you immediately stiff arm against their elbow to prevent him from getting high. You can then either post on your right elbow and go to octopus half as Firas shows, or go for shaolin as I described.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Glad I asked. This variation sounds very interesting, and your description is very well-detailed. Thanks!

I just found the closest example to what I'm describing at 1:00:



The way he's grabbing the sleeve is similar to how I would do it, though I prefer to post at the elbow. He is grabbing with his right hand by the belt area, but I would prefer to grab around the knee.

Critically, watch the way he tilts his opponent to the left before initiating the sweep. That is exactly what I'm describing. You do not roll back first. You tilt them first, then roll.

 

[sb413197]

By practicing them on opponents that are at or below your level, mainly. If you only try techniques on much higher level guys, you won't get a sense of what works and what doesn't, because you won't really know if it was "close" or not as they pull out a counter.

For example I tried a step-over rolling choke from top turtle on a very strong young blackbelt in training. He never gurgled and managed to somehow get out of it...it was ridiculous, I've never missed that choke from that position against any other grappler, and would never have known that if I never hit it a bunch of time on other guys.

 

[EndlessCritic]

By practicing them on opponents that are at or below your level, mainly. If you only try techniques on much higher level guys, you won't get a sense of what works and what doesn't, because you won't really know if it was "close" or not as they pull out a counter.

For example I tried a step-over rolling choke from top turtle on a very strong young blackbelt in training. He never gurgled and managed to somehow get out of it...it was ridiculous, I've never missed that choke from that position against any other grappler, and would never have known that if I never hit it a bunch of time on other guys.

Yep. That's one of my favorite moments in grappling. When a move you effortlessly hit on lower belts gets completely shut down against elite guys, and you're left wondering what you're doing wrong.

Though I will say I have extremely high confidence in my elbow escape from mount. I attempted it on a 300lb legit black belt. His response was to transition to knee on belly -- which I took as a win that he couldn't hold the mount... though his knee on belly was far more crushing of a position to be under!

 

[sb413197]

Yep. That's one of my favorite moments in grappling. When a move you effortlessly hit on lower belts gets completely shut down against elite guys, and you're left wondering what you're doing wrong.

Though I will say I have extremely high confidence in my elbow escape from mount. I attempted it on a 300lb legit black belt. His response was to transition to knee on belly -- which I took as a win that he couldn't hold the mount... though his knee on belly was far more crushing of a position to be under!

Yep. In this particular case (step over rolling bow and arrow), I learned to keep my elbow tightly plastered down, and to fight to get my legs in appropriate position before engaging the squeeze.