Ahmad Shah Massoud's son poised to fight Taliban in Panjshir, just like his father once did

[Kforcer]

Yes i just think that a lot of Massoud is sentiment that was created around him. This isnt to demonize him by any means just as its demonizing that even though a lot of historical figures that we associate with good things, also committed sins and bad things which they were responsible for. History for the most part is full of this.

Yeah, I don't take it as demonizing. I mean, the truth is the truth and you can't or shouldn't deny it, even when it it is uncomfortable. I definitely have sympathy for a lot of his ideas, like the idea of using a federalist system and of course, I appreciate that he tried to warn America of 9/11, but things that happened, happened. It reminds me of the Civil War; I'm all for the cause, but you can't deny that the Union committed atrocities.

I wonder why he aligned with Sayyef at all; even after he broke away from Jamiat and had formed the United Front, Sayyef still had a part, basically, from what I understand, as the resident Wahabbist/Salafist. I think part of it maybe was too much devotion to the idea of a coalition. It seems clear that Sayyef setup Massoud's assassination, since he was the one who arranged for the "reporters" from Tunisia to meet him.

Another question is why he resisted Abdul Haq's help and what, if anything, would have been different with Haq's presence.

 

[12ga.]

Looks like Massoud got cucked too

 

[Misanthropist]

…

 

[Kforcer]

According to this Twitter, Dostum is sending 10,000 Afghani army troops to Panjshir:

 

[Kforcer]

Looks like Massoud got cucked too

Guess not:

 

[ocean size]

What people don't realize is that this Northern Alliance is not the North Aliiance of the 90s nor is this Taliban the Taliban of the 90s. They conquered the whole country in one week this is a whole new Taliban that has modernized alot in military tactics.

If by modernized military tactics, you mean "cutting deals over moenths and paying off opposition commanders to tell their (unpaid) troops to stand down", than that kinda makes sense. Because they didn't conquer Afghanistan with military might.

 

[Misanthropist]

I was just asking this question in another forum about why the Taliban didn't take Panjshir before taking Kabul because of their opposition threat in the area.

They said they anticipated this but the nature of terrain made it difficult and would slow them down so they secured the northern land routes to Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, pushed ANA into Uzbekistan, and ended by encircling Panjshir. They're imposing a tight blockade in and out (land and air) so supplies will eventually run out. Hence, the offer to negotiate from a position of strength while they have the momentum.

Their strategy seems psychological and build on negotiations with local elders and power brokers. It makes a lot of sense when you look at the map.

 

[Kforcer]

I was just asking this question in another forum that why the Taliban didn't take Panjshir before taking Kabul because of their opposition threat in the area.

They said they anticipated this but the nature of terrain made it difficult and would slow them down so they secured the northern land routes to Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, pushed ANA into Uzbekistan, and ended by encircling Panjshir. They're imposing a tight blockade in and out (land and air) so supplies will eventually run out. Hence, the offer to negotiate from a position of strength while they have the momentum.

Their strategy seems psychological and build on negotiations with local elders and power brokers. It makes a lot of sense when you look at the map.

Dostum is apparently reentering the fray, bringing, according to some sources, 10,000 troops with him. If he was able to get to Panjshir from Uzbekistan, then maybe it isn't as secure as they'd have people believe. Apparently they're currently fighting for Salang Pass and have secured Chahikar.

 

[PulsingJones]

If by modernized military tactics, you mean "cutting deals over moenths and paying off opposition commanders to tell their (unpaid) troops to stand down", than that kinda makes sense. Because they didn't conquer Afghanistan with military might.

I guess 60k Afghan government and 2.5k US troops just killed themselves...

American cope is something else...

 

[ocean size]

I guess 60k Afghan government and 2.5k US troops just killed themselves...

American cope is something else...

That post would maybe have made sense if the Taliban conquered Afghanistan in the early 2010s, when the vast majority of those 2.5k US casualties were incurred. Instead that is when Taliban territory was near its minimum and they decided they would wait for US patience to run out.

6 weeks ago they controlled less than a quarter of districts in the country. Pale colour on the bottom is Taliban controlled.

They didn't kill thousands of coalition troops in July-Aug to gain the other 3/4s.

 

[PulsingJones]

That post would maybe have made sense if the Taliban conquered Afghanistan in the early 2010s, when the vast majority of those 2.5k US casualties were incurred. Instead that is when Taliban territory was near its minimum and they decided they would wait for US patience to run out.

6 weeks ago they controlled less than a quarter of districts in the country. Pale colour on the bottom is Taliban controlled.

They didn't kill thousands of coalition troops in July-Aug to gain the other 3/4s.

No they didn't, they waged a prolonged guerrilla war against their enemies for 20 years until they whittled their morale and resources, and now they are reaping the rewards; victory.

The US would've loved nothing more than to establish a puppet state bordering their biggest rival, China. The fact they withdrew in the manner they did shows you they have no will to continue fighting, otherwise they would've stayed indefinitely. No matter how I look at it, it's a clear military defeat, and that's how history will remember it.

 

[ocean size]

No they didn't, they waged a prolonged guerrilla war against their enemies for 20 years until they whittled their morale and resources, and now they are reaping the rewards; victory.

The US would've loved nothing more than to establish a puppet state bordering their biggest rival, China. The fact they withdrew in the manner they did shows you they have no will to continue fighting, otherwise they would've stayed indefinitely. No matter how I look at it, it's a clear military defeat, and that's how history will remember it.

I'm not sure what you imagine you are arguing against. The Taliban outlasted the US's will to nation-build with guerilla warfare- planting IEDs, being willing to get drone striked in order to engage, etc. Clearly, they won. I agree.

But you responded to a post where I pointed out the Taliban hasn't demonstrated 'modernised military tactics' with its 'one week' conquering. They haven't. There wasn't much fighting involved at all.

 

[BIKES!]

Too bad this BAMF has to face a new Taliban armed to the teeth with Biden bucks and weapons

 

[Yehudim]

I'm not sure what you imagine you are arguing against. The Taliban outlasted the US's will to nation-build with guerilla warfare- planting IEDs, being willing to get drone striked in order to engage, etc. Clearly, they won. I agree.

But you responded to a post where I pointed out the Taliban hasn't demonstrated 'modernised military tactics' with its 'one week' conquering. They haven't. There wasn't much fighting involved at all.

Judging by the scatter minded response, he hasn’t taken his schizophrenia meds.

or maybe he just has America Derangement Syndrome

 

[DespicablePeep]

Ahmad Shah Massoud

Boy, I can remember that name. Remember when he was assassinated. Afghans around here wept. He was a God to them almost.

I remember some of those northern (non Pashtun) warlords.. just the toughest mofos you'd ever seen.

Shocking these northern warlords (this time around) all fled into Uzbekistan.

Back in the day they would have fought to the very end, to the very last man against the Taliban.

Strange times.

Must be hard to fight when all US arsenal just fell in the hands of Taliban.

 

[MicroBrew]

Too bad this BAMF has to face a new Taliban armed to the teeth with Biden bucks and weapons

BDS.
Biden effed up, no question there, but you trying to lay all this on his feet is biased, because you ignore that Trump is the one who signed the deal with the Taleban and the weapons they captured were Afghan army weapons.

What was the US supposed to do, take away the weapons and deprive the Afghan army of the tools it needed to fight the Taleban? If Biden had taken away their weapons, then when they fell, everyone would blame Biden for depriving them of the means to resist the Taleban.

Biden should have the US bomb the shit out of the vehicles and weapons that are stored in Afghan army bases, so he does deserve blame for not doing that.

Some of you guys refuse to ever admit Trump and your side did a lot of wrong, you just want to blame everything on Biden and Democrats.

 

[MicroBrew]

Must be hard to fight when all US arsenal just fell in the hands of Taliban.

If the US militarily backed Massoud, and enlisted neighboring countries to help, things may turn out different. But Biden doesn't give a shit. Trump didn't give a shit since he signed the withdrawl. And the US establishment doesn't give a shit. The only thing the US wants to do now is evacuate the Americans and bring refugees here. We have abandoned the anti Taleban forces just like we abandoned the Kurds.

 

[Deadwing88]

 

[12ga.]

Well fun while it lasted boyo until you realized money wasn't coming to support yet another corrupted warlord and shit got real.

 

[12ga.]

LOL body counts... I heard those lies last 60 years when things aren't going our way thats what happens. At kill rate advertised by NATO and afghan army Taliban would no longer existed. They forgot to tell people it was weddings and innocent farmers they killed tho while taliban were underground, emerging with people begging to sign up..