All Time GOAT poll

WTH?

Can you not read? I am not discrediting Anderson at all. I am just not calling him a liar as you seem to be. I believe him.

He never just took steroids at the end of his career after injury just as he tells others who may have taken steroids after injury or other challenges never just took them for that. What Anderson is telling you about he and others, is that steroids are a mind set you are willing to accept or not. Some fighters, for various benefits (training, power, recovery, age) will go there, and others fighters will not.

Anderson is saying in that moment due to that mindset (to go there... to use steroids) you KNOW, that they have always been using and should not just limit it to the period they got caught.

That is what Anderson is saying.

So again tell us how you know Anderson is wrong about himself and why you know better?

Cool story bro but what's the point.
Anderson also says he took dick pills not PEDs so you trust his word or you dont?

What I know is that:
- Silva only tested positive in his 40s after a career ending injury.
- Silva was widely considered the p4p best fighter in the world during GSP/Silva championship reigns. He didnt test positive during this period, his prime years.

No more no less.

Let's add another thing I know: Silva didnt beat fighters by imposing physicality - as your idol did more often - but by technique and tricks. There are no PEDs for this.
 
fightmatrix has a good goat list overall. i don't like that matt hughes is in the top 5 on there over anderson silva .seems absurd. hughes had a lot of title defenses i admit and is an all time great. but not over 10 title defenses with almost all finishes (his resume was great too don't know why people shit on it. prime hendo choked out in the second round, prime vitor, chael, okami was good then too. nate marquart) rich franklin he annihilated twice who was a great underrated fighter.
 
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So you are countering with an argument of 'Anderson was always a liar' too somehow suggest he would not have used steroids prior.

That is a bold move Cotton, not sure it will pay off.

But ok, lets accept your view that Anderson has always been a liar and we were never to trust any of his words. Why do you think that lends well to then assuming he would not have also always been a steroid cheat?

And Anderson's style was never about imposing physicality, and yet there he was on steroids while telling us all, that he, Anderson would never give any other fighter the benefit of the doubt. They get caught once, guilty for life as an 'always user'. It was almost like Anderson was speaking from some unique life experience. Like he knew!!!

<TheDonald>

Excuse me but I dont even know whats the point of this rambling.

If you ask for my opinion, I do think that competing in the elite in your 40s after a career ending injury is almost unhuman. To do it without any PEDs, its literally inhuman.

This is not about opinions but about facts though:

- Silva never tested positive as a champion
- Silva was widely regarded as the best p4p fighter in the world during GSP/Silva championship reigns.

It is what it is, your rambling didnt asses any of it, let alone change it
 
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I’m shocked that anderoid and the pulser have so many votes. Do people not realize that they are proven repeat performance enhancing drug cheats?
 
fightmatrix has a good goat list overall. i don't like that matt hughes is in the top 5 on there over anderson silva .seems absurd. hughes had a lot of title defenses i admit and is an all time great. but not over 10 title defenses with almost all finishes (his resume was great too don't know why people shit on it. prime hendo choked out in the second round, prime vitor, chael, okami was good then too. nate marquart) rich franklin he annihilated twice who was a great underrated fighter.

It's indeed crazy absurd and one of the reasons why FitgtMatrix is delegitimized as a realiable source in this discussions.
Similar reasons why the all-time Flyweight rankings according to FightMatrix has Ymaguchi, Urushitani and Kojima as top5 all-time....while they dont have Horiguchi even top 30 :eek::eek:

UFC was the only major promotion with a WW divisions back then. This meant that a fighter of same size than Hughes would need to get a call from UFC to fight for them at WW (for peanuts) otherwise they would get ZERO points in FightMatrix.

According to Dana White, Fertira, Rogan and anybody with a clue, UFC back then relied heavily on the star power of thei main faces (Hughes, Franklin, Liddel) to be financially sustainable (and even then, they were struggling) so they promoted accordingly.

Why do you think Anderson beat the widely considered #1 WW Sakurai, and just months after UFC call Sakurai to challenge their WW champion instead of the guy who had just beat him decisively?? Exactly.

Why was Amar Suloev - at the time considered the best guy his size in Russia - challenging Lidell for the LHW tittle despite weighting less than Hughes in fight night?
Do you think UFC called Suloev and told him "Hey you are legit, we want you to challenge for out tittle, do you prefer to face the guy your same size or the guy 25lbs heavier?". No, its wasnt like that.

Who were the best Japanese of Huhges size back then? Sakuraba, Misaki, Kondo...were they fighting at WW? Nope. So no WW points in FightMatrix.

How is that Hughes didnt face a single Brazilian - the land of vale-tudo - as a champ? Because there wasnt anyone any good, or rather because UFC didnt want to risk their cash cow losing to a foreign fighter.

For what we know, Hughes faced Pele in a non-UFC bout, and he got knocked the fuck out.

Hughes was a legitimate champion but anybody who has some understanding of the MMA landscape back then would understand the absurd overrating of a "mathematical system" as FightMatrix
Fightmatrix, by the way, was founded in 2008, so any rankins you see prior to 2008 was made in hinsight based on an algorithm. So they just gave the most points to whoever was #1 in UFC, because there was literally no alternative
 
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It is a good listing. Pretty consistent generally with what you will find in most top pundit sites.

I don't think Hughes over Anderson is absurd at all. I think they can go either way. You have to remember that Hughes fought in a pioneer division in the UFC that was stacked and that was arguably the only top division the UFC had in that period with Pride having the best MW, LHW and HW's and a bunch of orgs dividing up the best LW's.

The UFC MW division when Anderson took it over was still a nascent that was horribly weak. Franklin beat Tanner to win that belt and only defended twice (David the Crow, Nate Rock Quarry) and had cleaned out the division with that. Anderson had fought only once and only because the UFC has no contenders, did he get his shot via fan vote. Anderson then beats Franklin and with that win cleans out the MW division.

Usually when a new champ takes over and has already cleaned out the division it is because he fought everyone on the way to the title shot. Anderson fought no one, and yet had no one to fight.

Vitor was definitely in one of his main Prime assisted peaks (lol) and a great showcase win for Anderson. Hendo is always a solid win but was no where near his prime. Hendo (like BJ Penn) had almost entirely lost his grappling game by that point. Decision Dan who was known to drag top HW's into deep water with his control wrestling, was no more (as Shields proved). It was actually the death of Decision Dan (again similar to Penn's lose of his grappling stamina) and the birth of HBomb Dan that made fans love him when so many did not prior.

HBomb Dan had dangerous power but the most predictable striking possible (low kick followed by over hand) which was perfect for Anderson's style. Decision Dan, would have Chael'd Anderson without getting submitted.

Chael was a great come back win that exposed a lot to the world. Chael was arguably the last of old school top MMA wrestlers who never could learn even competent BBJ defense. In no other divisions outside MW would you find the top wrestlers with such an exploitable hole in their games. The other division were just better.

And lastly, those rankings consider the entirety of a fighters career. So obviously Anderson is going to fall a bit due to his late career, post Champion record.

@josh345 , if you want to know how a textbook GSP fanboy in sherdog sounds like, read that post.
Otherwise you are just reading a piece filled with ignorance, bias, and straight up stupidity.

Just will address a couple:

The UFC MW division when Anderson took it over was still a nascent that was horribly weak..

That's true for 2002, when Bustamante literally vacated the belt to go fight for more money in Japan.
UFC just wasnt interested on investing much money on foreign fighters who werent cash cows for them.

That's why UFC was very protecting of Franklin....or Hughes. This is not my opinion. Its acknowledged by Dana White himself. This started to change after TUF1

Around the same time Silva signed by the UFC in 2006, plenty of top talent and prospects were signed as well for the MW division: Marquardt, Leites, Okami, Kampmann, Swick, Belcher, Maia, etc, etc, etc.

Matt Hughes, being champ around the same time, fought Riggs, Royce!! and Trigg for the second time.
Now that's weak.

Chael was a great come back win that exposed a lot to the world. Chael was arguably the last of old school top MMA wrestlers who never could learn even competent BBJ defense. In no other divisions outside MW would you find the top wrestlers with such an exploitable hole in their games. The other division were just better.
.

Around 2007, Sonnen hired BJJ ace Fabiano Pega Leve as his BJJ coach for the first time in his career.

You could be ignorant about this dettail in particular, but if you didnt acknowledge any difference in his ground game from that point in time, you are just ignorant about what you are watching.

It was no accident that since he hired Pega Leve as his BJJJ coach, he tightened up his ground game and went to make two runs to the tittle shot in UFC, submitting Shogun Rua along the way.

Let's remind the p4p rankings during that time:

2012 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-45047

2011 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-36383

2010 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-23166

2009 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-17145

2008 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/GSP-Moves-Up-P4P-List-But-Not-to-Top-12459

Silva was #1 p4p becaue he was showing bigger superiority over his peers than GSP was doing. Against absolutely comparable caliber of competition. That's why he was widely acknowledged by pundits as #1 p4p.

That's history. Those are facts. The revisionist biased narratives of fanboys in sherdog are a whole different, crazy thing.
 
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@josh345 , if you want to know how a textbook GSP fanboy in sherdog sounds like, read that post.
Otherwise you are just reading a piece filled with ignorance, bias, and straight up stupidity.

Just to ilustrate it I will address a couple points



That's true for 2002, when Bustamante literally vacated the belt to go fight for more money in Japan.
UFC just wasnt interested on investing much money on foreign fighters who werent cash cows for them.

That's why UFC was very protecting of Franklin....or Hughes. This is not my opinion. Its acknowledged by Dana White himself. This started to change after TUF1

Around the same time Silva signed by the UFC in 2006, plenty of top talent and prospects were signed as well for the MW division: Marquardt, Leites, Kampmann, Okami, Belcher, Maia, etc, etc, etc.

Matt Hughes, being champ around the same time, fought Riggs, Royce!! and Trigg for the second time.
Now that's weak.



Around 2007, Sonnen hired BJJ ace Fabiano Pega Leve as his BJJ coach for the first time in his career.

You could be ignorant about this dettail in particular, but if you didnt acknowledge any difference in his ground game from that point in time, you are just ignorant about what you are watching.

It was no accident that since he hired Pega Leve as his BJJJ coach, he tightened up his ground game and went to make two runs to the tittle shot in UFC, submitting Shogun Rua along the way.

Let's remind the p4p rankings during that time:

2012 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-45047

2011 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-36383

2010 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-23166

2009 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-17145

2008 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/GSP-Moves-Up-P4P-List-But-Not-to-Top-12459

Silva was #1 p4p becaue he was showing bigger superiority over his peers than GSP was doing. Against absolutely comparable caliber of competition. That's why he was widely acknowledged by pundits as #1 p4p.

That's history. Those are facts. The revisionist biased narratives of fanboys in sherdog are a whole different, crazy thing.
completely agree. fuck i forgot he beat damian maia. that's as good of a win as any on gsps record. people will try to say maia is a natural ww but meh. both fights against woodley and anderson looked identical lol. he got a bloody nose in both and couldn't take either down.
 
I'll explain again.

Anderson Silva, himself, went about making a point of clarity about ever single fighter or athlete. HIs point includes old athletes, athletes dealing with injuries. ALL OF THEM.

Anderson's point was there are guys who will or will not use steroids for any of those reasons and when you catch them you can be sure they always used them. Anderson was giving no passes to any one like Randy Couture who fought old or to the many who recover from injuries. If you are the type to accept steroid use for those reasons you are the type who would always have used them.

So the only thing i am doing is agreeing with Anderson. I don't know you are choosing to disagree with him, when he would be the one to know himself best.

But if you think it is your place to say 'Anderson is wrong about Anderson and I know better...' then go ahead. Just don't expect many to take you seriously.

You go into a crazy dellusion :eek::eek::eek: around an alleged quote...dude, whatever helps u sleep at night bud I was discussing a very clear point:

- Silva was widely acknowledged as #1 p4p fighter in the world during GSP/Silva championship reigns, in between Fedor and Jones fade and arise respectively.

That was the discussion when you got into with your virgin ramblings.
 
IJust don't expect many to take you seriously.

U arent talking about be taken seriously with statements like this:

Chael never could learn even competent BJJ defense. .

Fact: Sonnen beat plenty of BJJ black belts and submitted Shogun Rua.

He also beat Oleynik btw, who just got a sub win at HW at 44 this weekend

You just parrot shertard cliches, pretending, like a moron.

Sonnen was a formidable MW in his prime, certainly as legitimate contender if not more than Kos, Alves or Fitch, let alone Hardy or Serra.
 
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U arent talking about be taken seriously with statements like this:



Fact: Sonnen beat plenty of BJJ black belts and submitted Shogun Rua.

He also beat Oleynik btw, who just got a sub win at HW at 44 this weekend

You just parrot shertard cliches, pretending, like a moron.

Sonnen was a formidable MW in his prime, certainly as legitimate contender if not more than Kos, Alves or Fitch, let alone Hardy or Serra.

Sonnen had 7 sub losses before facing Silva. Thats more than Kos, Alves, Fitch, Hardy and Serra combined at the time they fought GSP.

Fucking moron.
 
Sonnen had 7 sub losses before facing Silva. Thats more than Kos, Alves, Fitch, Hardy and Serra combined at the time they fought GSP.

Fucking moron.

Anthony Smith had 8 KO losses before facing Jones, does that mean he wasnt even "a competent striker" as your nerd buddy said? You fucking moron

Sonnen beat plenty of BJJ black belts and submitted Shogun Rua along the way.

Sonnen has more top wins than Kos, Alves, Hardy, Serra and even Fitch.
The #1 p4p at the time Anderson Silva finished Sonnen twice. Georges didnt finish any of them except Serra who also did this to him:

gif8.gif


Seriously, dont you get tired of getting bitchslapped right and left on here? Stay in your videogames room loser
 
Anthony Smith had 8 KO losses before facing Jones, does that mean he wasnt even "a competent striker" as your nerd buddy said? You fucking moron

Sonnen beat plenty of BJJ black belts and submitted Shogun Rua along the way.

Sonnen has more top wins than Kos, Alves, Hardy, Serra and even Fitch.
The #1 p4p at the time Anderson Silva finished Sonnen twice. Georges didnt finish any of them except Serra who also did this to him:

gif8.gif


Seriously, dont you get tired of getting bitchslapped right and left on here? Stay in your videogames room loser

Such a bullshit revisionnist history. Fitch and Alves were were much much much highly regarded before facing GSP than Sonnen was at any point in his career. Kos overall was better than Sonnen. Just give GSP props for ending his career.

Before fighting Silva, Sonnen was finished more times than all those guys combined before facing GSP and then you brag about Silva doing it too? Silva did what a dozen opponents managed to do to Sonnen. Very impressive :rolleyes: Oh and the first time around, he was dominated 24 out of 25 mins.

You are the one getting bitchslaped.
 
Fact again, Sonnen was ALONE, UNIQUE amongst top wrestlers who could make it to the top of any division with such an obvious and exploitable hole in his submission game.

In every other division, the depth in those divisions made sure that top wrestlers had to also have top BJJ defense. That has been a thing all thru the modern era of MMA in any strong division. MW just was not that and thus why a dominant wrestler with arguably the worst sub defense of any top 10 wrestler in that point in MMA could still get to the top.

Lets put it this way. I challenge you to name any top ranked wrestler in any division who had such weak sub defense? Heck pick any two combined who were as bad as Chael? No actually any 4.

That is right, name any 4 top wrestlers in that time frame who could get to the top of division who COMBINED were as bad as Chael? Go.

(i am betting you won't take the challenge and i know the reason why, but lets see if you are man enough to accept it)

No that's not fact. That's the sick dellusion of a fanboy in sherdog.

Check what a fact is:

Sonnen beat plenty of BJJ black belts and submitted Shogun Rua along the way.

Period. That's a fact.

No we have this kid-o:

Chael never could learn even competent BJJ defense. .

<{you!}>
<{Red Card}>
 
Such a bullshit revisionnist history. Fitch and Alves were were much much much highly regarded before facing GSP than Sonnen was at any point in his career. Kos overall was better than Sonnen. Just give GSP props for ending his career.

Before fighting Silva, Sonnen was finished more times than all those guys combined before facing GSP and then you brag about Silva doing it too? Silva did what a dozen opponents managed to do to Sonnen. Very impressive :rolleyes: Oh and the first time around, he was dominated 24 out of 25 mins.

You are the one getting bitchslaped.

Excuse me but after dominating Miller, Okami and Marquardt, and then Stann and Bisping and submitting Rua, there is no question: Sonnen was a more accomplished fighter and a more legitimate contender than Alves and Kos, arguably than Fitch too.
If it scratch the sick head of you fanboy not my issue, but it is what it is. Let's compare Sonnen's top10 list of wins with that of Alves and Kos to have some good laughs.

Educate yourself and be thankful:

Anthony Smith had 8 KO losses before facing Jones, does that mean he wasnt even "a competent striker" as your nerd buddy said? You fucking moron

Sonnen beat plenty of BJJ black belts and submitted Shogun Rua along the way.

Sonnen has more top wins than Kos, Alves, Hardy, Serra and even Fitch.
The #1 p4p at the time Anderson Silva finished Sonnen twice. Georges didnt finish any of them except Serra who also did this to him:

gif8.gif


Seriously, dont you get tired of getting bitchslapped right and left on here? Stay in your videogames room loser
 
Excuse me but after dominating Miller, Okami and Marquardt, and then Stann and Bisping and submitting Rua, there is no question: Sonnen was a more accomplished fighter and a more legitimate contender than Alves and Kos, arguably than Fitch too.
If it scratch the sick head of you fanboy not my issue, but it is what it is. Let's compare Sonnen's top10 list of wins with that of Alves and Kos to have some good laughs.

Educate yourself and be thankful:

Bullshit revisionnist history. Beating kos and Hughes >>>>> all these guys you mentionned.

Fact : Alves and Fitch were top 10 p4p at the time they fought GSP.
 
Bullshit revisionnist history. Beating kos and Hughes >>>>> all these guys you mentionned.

Fact : Alves and Fitch were top 10 p4p at the time they fought GSP.

You are pretending that the guy who got beat by Story or the one who got finished by Paulo Thiago, both around the same time they fought for the tittle were more legitimate than Sonnen? Are you stupid?

Regarding p4p ranks:

2012 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-45047

2011 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-36383

2010 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-23166

2009 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-17145

2008 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/GSP-Moves-Up-P4P-List-But-Not-to-Top-12459
 
You are pretending that the guy who got beat by Story or the one who got finished by Paulo Thiago, both around the same time they fought for the tittle were more legitimate than Sonnen? Are you stupid?

Regarding p4p ranks:

2012 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-45047

2011 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-36383

2010 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-23166

2009 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-17145

2008 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/GSP-Moves-Up-P4P-List-But-Not-to-Top-12459

Sonnen was subbed 8 TIMES before facing Silva and it took him 23.5 minutes to do it.

Kos was 100% more legitimate than Sonnen because he is :
#1 a better wrestler.
#2 He can defend a sub.
#3 doesn't have pillow hands.

2010 GSP p4p #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-28930

2011 GSP p4p #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-31030
 
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