All Time GOAT poll
- Thread starter Tachy
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Most others are too new to the game to have seen Micheal Jordan (of grappling) in his prime
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Who did he not fight that you think he should have?
He literally fought every single top WW and beat them all.
There was no one left.
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In terms off displaying allround MMA coming close to perfection it's Fedor in his prime.
But GSP comes close. I wonder how GSP would do if he fought as much as Fedor,
this late in his career.
But GSP comes close. I wonder how GSP would do if he fought as much as Fedor,
this late in his career.
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GSP, most fighters I interviewed say he is the most dedicated fighter ever
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That is what you call an opinion. Shut the fuck up.
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As a child I looked forward to Saturday morning cartoons for amusement. As an adult I tune in to Saturday morning Sherdog.
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People on sherdog tend to have lower IQs than average and it's difficult for them to understand very simple ideas.
When we talk about "who is the best martial artist" we are not talking about who is the best fighter. The best fighter (meaning, "who can this guy beat in a fight") would go to the man who holds a pistol - such a person beats every single MMA fighter in any fight 100% of the time regardless of who he's fighting, because he'd just shoot them. A literal child with a gun is a better fighter than every single MMA fighter that exists. That is NOT what we're looking for.
What we are looking for is "who is the best martial artist." so from here, we can easily define and delineate martial artists via things like weight, biological sex, etc. and have an objective metric for comparing people across these delineations and an objective way of comparing two people without actually having them fight each other.
This is also where the pound for pound ranking comes in. Pound for pound does NOT MEAN "if the two people were the same weight who would win in a fight?". Pound for pound is about "how deep and wide is the division, and how dominant is the martial artist in that division?" This way we have an actual objective metric for analyzing skill and an objective metric for comparing two people across weight classes.
All of it is very simple, but even simple concepts are too difficult for the average 85IQ sherdogger to understand.
When we talk about "who is the best martial artist" we are not talking about who is the best fighter. The best fighter (meaning, "who can this guy beat in a fight") would go to the man who holds a pistol - such a person beats every single MMA fighter in any fight 100% of the time regardless of who he's fighting, because he'd just shoot them. A literal child with a gun is a better fighter than every single MMA fighter that exists. That is NOT what we're looking for.
What we are looking for is "who is the best martial artist." so from here, we can easily define and delineate martial artists via things like weight, biological sex, etc. and have an objective metric for comparing people across these delineations and an objective way of comparing two people without actually having them fight each other.
This is also where the pound for pound ranking comes in. Pound for pound does NOT MEAN "if the two people were the same weight who would win in a fight?". Pound for pound is about "how deep and wide is the division, and how dominant is the martial artist in that division?" This way we have an actual objective metric for analyzing skill and an objective metric for comparing two people across weight classes.
All of it is very simple, but even simple concepts are too difficult for the average 85IQ sherdogger to understand.
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Everyday is Sat. here.
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when comparing fighters in different weightclasses we have to look at their accomplishments within their respective realm.
I appreciate you making this about george and fedor since they are the number 1 and number 2 best of all time with any order being acceptable.
I appreciate you making this about george and fedor since they are the number 1 and number 2 best of all time with any order being acceptable.
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Fedor never lost in his prime
GSP lost twice
Fedor was a HW
GSP was a WW
GSPs only case is in fantasy p4p land where we ignore the fact that the HWs would crush the WWs. A bit like saying Serena Williams is a better tennis player than Roger Federer.
GSP lost twice
Fedor was a HW
GSP was a WW
GSPs only case is in fantasy p4p land where we ignore the fact that the HWs would crush the WWs. A bit like saying Serena Williams is a better tennis player than Roger Federer.
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Fedor has better skills, more finishes, beat opponents who were as good or better than GSPs.
You literally can't argue that the Canadian is better than Fedor, unless you are very biased
You literally can't argue that the Canadian is better than Fedor, unless you are very biased
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Being finished by Henderson > being finished by Serra. Hypothesis right back.
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Time to drop the bomb.
Skillwise:
-For a decade Fedor was skilled enough to stand and outstrike elite strikers like Mirko Crocop and Hunt Mark Hunt. He was also good enough to be inside Nogs guard for entire fights.
-GSP on the other hand played it safe and took strikers to the ground. He also often shot for take downs just to score points.
-It took GSP 50 seconds to shoot for a TD vs. Alves
-It took GSP 13 seconds to shoot for a TD vs. Hendricks
-It took GSP 6 seconds to shoot for a TD vs. Diaz
-It took GSP 3 seconds to shoot for a TD vs. Fitch
-GSP kept it standing with bjj fighters like Shields and greased for BJ Penn.
I think we can all agree that GSP mostly stayed away from his opponents' strengths while prime Fedor didn't. He was good enough to outclass them at their own game.
Prime Fedor was also skilled enough not to have a slip in 10 years, hardly even conceding a round and not once getting knocked down in his decade of dominance.
GSP on the other hand got armbarred by a wrestler, TKO'd by a low tier LW bjj fighter and got dropped several times during his prime/reign.
It took Fedor a decade before getting tapped out. GSP on the other hand:
How many years did it take to finally see Fedor like this?:
It took Fedor over 15 years to finally get knocked down (at heavyweight) by a strike. GSP however:
Fedor was skilled enough to finish his fights, while GSP barely ever finished a fight in his prime.
All in all, prime for prime, GSP was:
-Outstruck more than Fedor, who was never outstruck during his reign
-Dropped more than Fedor, who was never dropped during his reign
-Subbed more than Fedor, who was subbed after 10 years
-Beaten more times than Fedor, who was beaten after 10 years
-Got hurt, rocked, and took more damage than Fedor during his reign
-And failed to finish more fights (after getting to the top only 31% of GSP's wins were finishes)
Skillwise, Fedor > GSP. Fedor was simply better and less flawed.
Resumes:
Now when it comes to resumes, the only argument GSP fans have is that he supposedly fought better competition in a stacked division...
WW was so good that Dan Hardy became the #4 ranked WW in the world. Do you know how he earned that high ranking spot? He decisioned Mike Swick, who was ranked #7. Voilá. There's an "elite" top 5 win for GSP.
An elite top 5 GSP win:
Meanwhile Mark Hunt defeated top 5 Crocop, and he was only ranked #9 when he fought Fedor. Brett Rogers who KO'd #2 Arlovski was only ranked #6.
Going back to the stacked WW division, Nick Diaz didn't have a top win for 6 years, then he decisioned #9 BJ Penn. Voilá, another top 5 win for GSP.
Beating a barely top ranked Bj Penn is the reason several of GSP's opponents became top 5
Matt Serra is another top 5 "elite" win in GSP's record. Reason being, GSP made him top 5.... by losing to him. Add another one to the list.
We're always told the WW division was vastly superior to HW, and yet WW fighters were getting handed elite top 5 ranking spots with minimal effort compared to HW. As the examples above prove, a low end top 10 win was enough for a WW to crack the top 5. On the other hand a HW could beat a top 5 opponent and still not become top 5. WW was tougher, yet it was easier to become elite? How does that work?
That pretty much proves that GSP's top 5 wins argument is in fact a completely flawed argument. Fedor fought tougher competition than GSP. Actually Nogueira alone > anyone on GSP's record.
Fedor's accomplishments:
-10 years undefeated at HW
-27 win streak
-More than 7 years in a row ranked #1
-Defended his #1 HW ranking spot 18 times
-At least 12 top ranked wins
-Multiple time world champion under different orgs. and rules:
*Rings Openweight Championship
*Rings Absolute Class tournament winner
*Pride HW champion
*Pride HW Grand Prix world champion
*WAMMA HW champion
-Over 70% of his wins were finishes
All without conceding a single round, getting outstruck or dropped, cutting weight or failing drug tests.
Now Fedor did lose when past prime and never got back to the top, while GSP avenged all of his losses. However when you lose during your prime it is a lot easier to get back to the top as opposed to when you're completely past it. So not a good argument.
P.S. Let's be honest, Fedor choking 265 lbs Tim Sylvia in 36 seconds > GSP choking out Bisping at 185. Still good win from GSP.
I hope you enjoyed this nice read. I expect nothing but polite replies specially from GSP fans.
Cheers.
Skillwise:
-For a decade Fedor was skilled enough to stand and outstrike elite strikers like Mirko Crocop and Hunt Mark Hunt. He was also good enough to be inside Nogs guard for entire fights.
-GSP on the other hand played it safe and took strikers to the ground. He also often shot for take downs just to score points.
-It took GSP 50 seconds to shoot for a TD vs. Alves
-It took GSP 13 seconds to shoot for a TD vs. Hendricks
-It took GSP 6 seconds to shoot for a TD vs. Diaz
-It took GSP 3 seconds to shoot for a TD vs. Fitch
-GSP kept it standing with bjj fighters like Shields and greased for BJ Penn.
I think we can all agree that GSP mostly stayed away from his opponents' strengths while prime Fedor didn't. He was good enough to outclass them at their own game.
Prime Fedor was also skilled enough not to have a slip in 10 years, hardly even conceding a round and not once getting knocked down in his decade of dominance.
GSP on the other hand got armbarred by a wrestler, TKO'd by a low tier LW bjj fighter and got dropped several times during his prime/reign.
It took Fedor a decade before getting tapped out. GSP on the other hand:
How many years did it take to finally see Fedor like this?:
It took Fedor over 15 years to finally get knocked down (at heavyweight) by a strike. GSP however:
Fedor was skilled enough to finish his fights, while GSP barely ever finished a fight in his prime.
All in all, prime for prime, GSP was:
-Outstruck more than Fedor, who was never outstruck during his reign
-Dropped more than Fedor, who was never dropped during his reign
-Subbed more than Fedor, who was subbed after 10 years
-Beaten more times than Fedor, who was beaten after 10 years
-Got hurt, rocked, and took more damage than Fedor during his reign
-And failed to finish more fights (after getting to the top only 31% of GSP's wins were finishes)
Skillwise, Fedor > GSP. Fedor was simply better and less flawed.
Resumes:
Now when it comes to resumes, the only argument GSP fans have is that he supposedly fought better competition in a stacked division...
WW was so good that Dan Hardy became the #4 ranked WW in the world. Do you know how he earned that high ranking spot? He decisioned Mike Swick, who was ranked #7. Voilá. There's an "elite" top 5 win for GSP.
An elite top 5 GSP win:
Meanwhile Mark Hunt defeated top 5 Crocop, and he was only ranked #9 when he fought Fedor. Brett Rogers who KO'd #2 Arlovski was only ranked #6.
Going back to the stacked WW division, Nick Diaz didn't have a top win for 6 years, then he decisioned #9 BJ Penn. Voilá, another top 5 win for GSP.
Beating a barely top ranked Bj Penn is the reason several of GSP's opponents became top 5
Matt Serra is another top 5 "elite" win in GSP's record. Reason being, GSP made him top 5.... by losing to him. Add another one to the list.
We're always told the WW division was vastly superior to HW, and yet WW fighters were getting handed elite top 5 ranking spots with minimal effort compared to HW. As the examples above prove, a low end top 10 win was enough for a WW to crack the top 5. On the other hand a HW could beat a top 5 opponent and still not become top 5. WW was tougher, yet it was easier to become elite? How does that work?
That pretty much proves that GSP's top 5 wins argument is in fact a completely flawed argument. Fedor fought tougher competition than GSP. Actually Nogueira alone > anyone on GSP's record.
Fedor's accomplishments:
-10 years undefeated at HW
-27 win streak
-More than 7 years in a row ranked #1
-Defended his #1 HW ranking spot 18 times
-At least 12 top ranked wins
-Multiple time world champion under different orgs. and rules:
*Rings Openweight Championship
*Rings Absolute Class tournament winner
*Pride HW champion
*Pride HW Grand Prix world champion
*WAMMA HW champion
-Over 70% of his wins were finishes
All without conceding a single round, getting outstruck or dropped, cutting weight or failing drug tests.
Now Fedor did lose when past prime and never got back to the top, while GSP avenged all of his losses. However when you lose during your prime it is a lot easier to get back to the top as opposed to when you're completely past it. So not a good argument.
P.S. Let's be honest, Fedor choking 265 lbs Tim Sylvia in 36 seconds > GSP choking out Bisping at 185. Still good win from GSP.
I hope you enjoyed this nice read. I expect nothing but polite replies specially from GSP fans.
Cheers.
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Lol Silva is bigger than GSP. If GSP is the GOAT, than its P4P anyway. And if we talk about P4P, you should consider the size lol. Thus you cant hold GSP not challengering the bigger man against him. Because if you do, you might just aswell say it like it is. There where many MMA fighters who could have beaten GSP in his prime. LHWs and HWs.
