All wrestling moves/takedowns are performed at "an angle" - agree/disagree?

Ordinarily, one would find guys like this on gamefaqs flaming over their interpretation of sonic the hedgehog lore. It just so happens, as a matter of historical contingency, that he is here using grappling as a vehicle for expressing this kind of spergmatic oneupsmanship, instead.
 
I dunno how useful of a framing this is. A lot of techniques are inherently 'angled' since one leg or the other is first, but it is technique specific and often a side effect rather than a prerequisite.

Jordan Burrows power doubles on Ben are pretty damn square.

Pushing straight forward of pulling straight back = will never work, for ANY takedown, against anyone even half decent.
.

Maybe you think Ben is less than half decent though lol.

I'm not sure drawing a common thread of 'angles' as some essential aspect of takedowns has any utility, like, at all. Especially when so many techniques from a very squared up position, and the importance of shifting from a head on position is not to assume and angle, it is because of the dynamic motion required or because of transitioning into the next advantageous position.
 
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I dunno how useful of a framing this is. A lot of techniques are inherently 'angled' since one leg or the other is first, but it is technique specific and often a side effect rather than a prerequisite.

Jordan Burrows power doubles on Ben are pretty damn square.

.


6:47 - beautiful angle cut after he was in on the leg = to finish the takedown.
 
6:47 - beautiful angle cut after he was in on the leg = to finish the takedown.
It was slick, but so were a whole bunch of straight down the center takedowns in the video. And ankle picks are often effective with no angle.

In short, this angles=wrestling is a dog that won't hunt, except sometimes when it feel like it.
 
6:47 - beautiful angle cut after he was in on the leg = to finish the takedown.
Oh look. He appeared. So buddy. Explain to me. As a person who did include angles in his instruction to wrestlers... yesterday morning. We were working on elbow offs and elbow passes.

In your “superior way” of teaching. How shall you take someone who has never wrestled before. And teach them how to be superior and use “angles” to teach takedowns.. without doing all that outdated step by step instruction.. I’m genuinely curious.

Your comment about “straight on never working on anyone good”.. will just go understood as the same kind of comment as someone saying headlock are junk moves. Incorrect and incomplete
 
Ordinarily, one would find guys like this on gamefaqs flaming over their interpretation of sonic the hedgehog lore. It just so happens, as a matter of historical contingency, that he is here using grappling as a vehicle for expressing this kind of spergmatic oneupsmanship, instead.
What’s sad is that he’s grasped a good concept. But he is making a classic mistake of trying to make it the holy grail and pretend it’s the secret sauce. Which is a 12 year old way of looking at anything complex. In addition to his hubris and arrogance.
 


2:35 - single leg that drove Askren off the stage - clearly shot in at an angle.

3:35 - when Boroughs landed that shot, he shot in straight after a level change, pretty standard for double legs - he finished by running through him, arguably that was a vertical angle.

Continuing - every time he uses the clubs to Askren, he uses them to switch out his angle to the left or right;

Every. Time.

As the commentator notes, "clubs one way, goes the other....".

Uses lovely wrist locks to short arm drags into level changes.

4:27 - level change to double to lift. A level change is essentially again, a vertical angle.
Even finishing that dump, brings him down to the side = an angle.

Coming to the end of the first using nice circling footwork left and right, looking for that angle.

**
6:45 - ankle pick finished at an angle as noted above.

And that's a wrap.

....

If ya'll aren't acknowledging that essentially everything he's doing is angle work.... I don't know what to tell you.....
 


2:35 - single leg that drove Askren off the stage - clearly shot in at an angle.

3:35 - when Boroughs landed that shot, he shot in straight after a level change, pretty standard for double legs - he finished by running through him, arguably that was a vertical angle.

Continuing - every time he uses the clubs to Askren, he uses them to switch out his angle to the left or right;

Every. Time.

As the commentator notes, "clubs one way, goes the other....".

Uses lovely wrist locks to short arm drags into level changes.

4:27 - level change to double to lift. A level change is essentially again, a vertical angle.
Even finishing that dump, brings him down to the side = an angle.

Coming to the end of the first using nice circling footwork left and right, looking for that angle.

**
6:45 - ankle pick finished at an angle as noted above.

And that's a wrap.

....

If ya'll aren't acknowledging that essentially everything he's doing is angle work.... I don't know what to tell you.....

Oh look he’s ignoring the inconvenient. I’m still waiting on your practice plan
 
Oh look. He appeared. So buddy. Explain to me. As a person who did include angles in his instruction to wrestlers... yesterday morning. We were working on elbow offs and elbow passes.

In your “superior way” of teaching. How shall you take someone who has never wrestled before. And teach them how to be superior and use “angles” to teach takedowns.. without doing all that outdated step by step instruction.. I’m genuinely curious.

Your comment about “straight on never working on anyone good”.. will just go understood as the same kind of comment as someone saying headlock are junk moves. Incorrect and incomplete

For me, to demonstrate angle work, easiest explanation is the simplest most intuitive takedown;

Bodylock.

Khabib and that mob from teh caucuses use them to dominate constantly.

In, chest to chest - direction of power meeting opponents direction of power.
= neutralize each other.

Wrestler A steps "around" his opponent whilst maintaining the body lock
= wrestler B's direction of power now by passing wrestler A's, whilst wrestler A maintain his straight on direction (thus full power) directly into wrestler B.

And then simply turn/twist to finish, i.e. an angle, on top of an angle,

As per,

giphy.gif

(taken from )

MMQLwop.png

Can clearly see Islam steps "around" his opponent, maintaining his center-line/direction-of-power into him, whilst his opponents center-line/direciton-of-power faces "past" him.

i.e. directioning his hips perpendicular to his opponents hips.

Smooth, effortless flow.
A pleasure to watch.

The chess match is using footwork and grips and holds to get into the angle position, but ensuring wrestlers understand that is the end goal (i.e. using angles to enter and finish takedowns) = the entire purpose of wrestling.

Once that's down, then separate instruction can be given to rookie wrestlers on footwork, arm drags, russian tie's, all the grips etc.
 
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And once they've grasped this first use of angles as a means to understand the "angle" concept itself (via the most common, easiest takedown) simply progressing to explain how angles apply to every single other takedown;

And demonstrate this.
 
For me, to demonstrate angle work, easiest explanation is the simplest most intuitive takedown;

Bodylock.

Khabib and that mob from teh caucuses use them to dominate constantly.

In, chest to chest - direction of power meeting opponents direction of power.
= neutralize each other.

Wrestler A steps "around" his opponent whilst maintaining the body lock
= wrestler B's direction of power now by passing wrestler A's, whilst wrestler A maintain his straight on direction (thus full power) directly into wrestler B.

And then simply turn/twist to finish, i.e. an angle, on top of an angle,

As per,



Smooth, effortless flow.
A pleasure to watch.

The chess match is using footwork and grips and hold to get into the angle position, but ensuring wrestlers understand that is the end goal = the entire purpose of wrestling.

Once that's down, then separate instruction can be given to rookie wrestlers on footwork, arm drags, russian tie's, all the grips etc.

So what’s the actual practice plan?

How are you actually going to get your rookies executing right away. You’re going to wax poetically about theory on moves they don’t know yet and then show the grips and whatnot. So where are you going to teach the building block skills and movement patterns? How are you going to help those that spaced out during your wasting a chunk of the 2 hours of instruction available with you talking instead of having them get reps in? That’s actually a very outdated way of instruction and goes against every piece of education research out there. which you know of course.. unless.. you’re ignorant :)

and finally. How much have you actually wrestled competitively? And how much have you coached? Or actually even tried this method? Direct answer please.

See I do things differently with my team than a lot of wrestling coaches... I actually tried them out first before stating I had a better different way. You also keep making the assumption all wrestling coaches coach the same.

and don’t avoid my direct question on experience. Otherwise you’ll prove my point :)
 


2:35 - single leg that drove Askren off the stage - clearly shot in at an angle.

3:35 - when Boroughs landed that shot, he shot in straight after a level change, pretty standard for double legs - he finished by running through him, arguably that was a vertical angle.

Continuing - every time he uses the clubs to Askren, he uses them to switch out his angle to the left or right;

Every. Time.

As the commentator notes, "clubs one way, goes the other....".

Uses lovely wrist locks to short arm drags into level changes.

4:27 - level change to double to lift. A level change is essentially again, a vertical angle.
Even finishing that dump, brings him down to the side = an angle.

Coming to the end of the first using nice circling footwork left and right, looking for that angle.

**
6:45 - ankle pick finished at an angle as noted above.

And that's a wrap.

....

If ya'll aren't acknowledging that essentially everything he's doing is angle work.... I don't know what to tell you.....

this shit is so goofy. There are of course more ways to interact with someone else that will involve lateral (and now you are lumping in vertical) movements than not, especially with as loose of a criteria as you are using. Operationally it becomes meaningless though. You might as well be saying every takedown involves foot positioning so the key to wrestling is footwork. Or setups. Or torque. Elevating a single element just for the fuck of it isn't useful in a pedagogical sense or othewise.
 
and finally. How much have you actually wrestled competitively? And how much have you coached? Or actually even tried this method? Direct answer please.

See I do things differently with my team than a lot of wrestling coaches... I actually tried them out first before stating I had a better different way. You also keep making the assumption all wrestling coaches coach the same.

and don’t avoid my direct question on experience. Otherwise you’ll prove my point :)

I've wrestled for 10+ years.
I started coaching 2 years ago.

I know the bog standard coaching methods used in most schools.

Forget one coach to the next, it's the principle of wrestling coaching but I've said enough already.

More than enough.

Ya'll are beyond my help, at least by way of an internet forum.

For those who've read, understand, and hopefully use it to improve themselves or others - may the wrestling Gods be with you.

Those who can't see the light, good luck also but, I know the form of luck will be less successful.

........

Last thought I'll leave you with is - ya'll argued to the death in the "heel hook" thread, and now that my point is conclusively proven, not a peep out of anyone.

God speed.
 
I've wrestled for 10+ years.
I started coaching 2 years ago.

I know the bog standard coaching methods used in most schools.

Forget one coach to the next, it's the principle of wrestling coaching but I've said enough already.

More than enough.

Ya'll are beyond my help, at least by way of an internet forum.

For those who've read, understand, and hopefully use it to improve themselves or others - may the wrestling Gods be with you.

Those who can't see the light, good luck also but, I know the form of luck will be less successful.

........

Last thought I'll leave you with is - ya'll argued to the death in the "heel hook" thread, and now that my point is conclusively proven, not a peep out of anyone.

God speed.
How are your results
 
Everyone please note he has yet to show a practice plan and it’s obvious he’s been around.. mediocre coaching and wrestling.

of course angles are involved in wrestling and help. But straight on attacks do work on legit people. Like the wrestler with experience wrestling internationally said earlier
 
I've wrestled for 10+ years.
I started coaching 2 years ago.

I know the bog standard coaching methods used in most schools.

Forget one coach to the next, it's the principle of wrestling coaching but I've said enough already.

More than enough.

Ya'll are beyond my help, at least by way of an internet forum.

For those who've read, understand, and hopefully use it to improve themselves or others - may the wrestling Gods be with you.

Those who can't see the light, good luck also but, I know the form of luck will be less successful.

........

Last thought I'll leave you with is - ya'll argued to the death in the "heel hook" thread, and now that my point is conclusively proven, not a peep out of anyone.

God speed.
So you wrestled youth and Hs. And have been helping the local Hs as an assistant? Because it more so sounds like your frustrated with not being in charge and being allowed to do things the way YOU want to do them. So you’re saying things to us you wish you could say to the head coach.
It’s the only halfway charitable reason I can give for you calling people having rational discussion with you imbeciles.

Because if you are acting that way with athletes parents and school staff... you’ll never get anything done
 
I mean...eh. you can execute certain moves while square with your opponent. I'd say all wrestling moves SHOULD be performed at an angle but it is not always necessary.

Nothing is black and white. There are always scenarios where attacking from straight on is the better option. It all depends on the circumstances
 
What is it that hath been? The same thing that shall be. What is it that hath been done? The same that shall be done. And naught is there a wholly new thing under the sun.

See manners of which one saith: `See this, it is new!' already it hath been in ages before.

There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come, with those that shall come after.
 
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