Ancient Greek Dialogue on Purpose of MMA

updowniri

Green Belt
@Green
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,246
Reaction score
609

Written in the first century concerning characters from fifth century BC a Scythian visits Greece and is surprised and confused at their MMA training. The dialogue contains some interesting lines that we see repeated today. I have pasted in some select passages you can read the full dialogue with the link above.

Anacharsis: And for what purpose are your young men (neoi) doing all these things, Solon? Some of them, locked in each other’s arms, are tripping up one another, while others are choking and twisting each other and are grovelling together in the mud, rolling around like pigs. Yet, in the beginning, as soon as they had taken their clothes off [Greek athletics were performed in the nude], they put oil on themselves and took turns at rubbing each other down very peacefully. I saw it. Since then, I do not know what has gotten into them that they push one another around with heads lowered, and they smash their foreheads together like rams. And look there! That man picked the other one up by the legs, threw him to the ground and then fell down on top of him. He won’t let him get up, shoving him down into the mud. And now, after winding his legs around his middle and putting his forearm underneath his throat, he is choking the poor fellow. The other is slapping him sidewise on the shoulder in submission, I think, so that he may not be strangled to death. Even out of consideration for the oil, they do not avoid getting dirty. They rub off the ointment, plaster themselves with mud, mixed with streams of sweat, and make themselves a laughing-stock, to me at least, by slipping through each other’s hands like eels.

Others, who are standing upright and are themselves covered with dust, attack each other with kicks and punches. This one here – poor guy – has taken a hit to the jaw, as you see, and looks as if he is going to spit out his teeth with his mouth being so full of blood and sand. But even the official there does not separate them and break up the fight. I’m assuming from his purple cloak that he is one of the refereeing officials. To the contrary, he urges the men on and praises the one who struck the blow. Others additionally are all exerting themselves in different places. They jump up and down as if they were running but stay in the same place, and they spring high up and kick the air.

Solon: The place itself is called a “gymnasium” by us, Anacharsis, and it is sacred to Lykaian Apollo. You see his statue there: the figure leaning against the pillar, with the bow in his left hand and his right arm bent back above his head, which indicates that the god is resting as if after long exertion. As for these forms of athletics, that one over there in the mud is called “wrestling,” and the men in the dust are also wrestling. When they stand upright and strike one another, we call it using “all-powers” (pankration) [i.e. similar to kick-boxing]. We have other such athletic exercises as well, namely boxing, throwing the discus, and jumping. We present all of them in competitions and the winner is considered best in his class and carries off the prizes.

Anacharsis: And what are these prizes of yours?

Solon: At the Olympic competitions [at Olympia] a crown made of wild olive, at the Isthmian competitions [at Corinth] a crown of pine, at the Nemean competitions [at Nemea] a crown of parsley, and at the Pythian competitions some of the apples sacred to Apollo. With us Athenians at the Panathenaia festival, the oil from the scared olive tree [i.e. the goddess Athena’s olive tree on the Acropolis].

What made you laugh, Anacharsis? Because you think these prizes are insignificant?

Anacharsis: No, the prizes that you have described are completely respectable, Solon. The prizes may well cause those who generously offered them to receive glory and may well make the contestants themselves very eager to carry away such rewards. The result is that they will go through all these preliminary hardships and risks – getting choked and broken in two by one another – for apples and parsley. This is as if it were not possible for anyone who wants these prizes to get plenty of apples without any trouble, or to wear a crown made of parsley or pine without having his face smeared with mud or letting himself be kicked in the stomach by his opponent!

Solon: (10) But, good man, it is not the gifts themselves that we have in view! They are merely symbols of the victory and tokens to identify the winners. But the reputation that goes with them is worth everything to the victors, and to attain it – even to be kicked – is nothing to men who seek to capture fame through hardships. Reputation cannot be acquired without hardships, and the man who covets it must put up with many unpleasant things at the outset before he finally can expect the profitable and delightful outcome of his labours.
 
great post / thread TS.

giphy.gif


Ain't nothin changed but the weather

(Including getting oiled up! Lol)
 
Another good one.

Anacharsis: Get out of there, Solon! You Greeks may consider those benefits and pleasures. For my part, if one of you treated me like that, he would discover that we Scythians don’t carry these daggers on our belts for show! But tell me, what name do you give to these performances? What are we to say they are doing?
 
Pankration was truly the world's first mixed martial art. Great read, thanks TS!
 
Any excuse to wrestle with the boys :cool:
 
Crown of parsley!!!



The ultimate sign of victory
 
Some more gems.

You see, I like to keep mentioning the prizes, which are so fine! But tell me, do all the contestants get them?

Solon: Not at all. Only one among everyone who is the winner.

This helps us by creating in these young men two effects that are most useful, since it makes them not only enthusiastic in facing dangers and carefree with regard to their bodies, but above all healthy and strong.

Those of them who put their bent heads together and wrestle learn to fall safely and get up easily, to push, grip and twist in various ways; to stand being choked; and, to lift their opponent high in the air. They too are not engaging in useless exercises. On the contrary, they are indisputably acquiring the one thing which is first and greatest: their bodies become less susceptible to ailments and more vigorous through being exercised thoroughly. There is something else as well, which itself is not insignificant: they become experienced as a result of the training, in case they should ever come to need what they have learned in battle. Clearly such a man, when he closes with an enemy, will trip and throw him more quickly, and when he is down, will know how to get up again most easily. For we make all these preparations, Anacharsis, in anticipation of that contest, namely the contest with military weapons, and we expect to find far superior men disciplined in this way, after we have made them pliable and trained their bodies in the nude, and so have made them healthier and stronger, light and elastic, and at the same time too bulky for their opponents.
 
Solon: (10) But, good man, it is not the gifts themselves that we have in view! They are merely symbols of the victory and tokens to identify the winners. But the reputation that goes with them is worth everything to the victors, and to attain it – even to be kicked – is nothing to men who seek to capture fame through hardships. Reputation cannot be acquired without hardships, and the man who covets it must put up with many unpleasant things at the outset before he finally can expect the profitable and delightful outcome of his labours.
I'm not one for body art, but that would be a better tattoo than 99% of quotes that people get under their skin.

Nice thread. I was planning on making a thread about Pále in the grappling forum at some point, but I kind of forgot about it. I won't go to deep, but 'Greco-Roman Wrestling' of todays Olympics is entirely different from the ancient and original Olympic wrestling. Pretty braindead since the name clearly implies otherwise.
 
MMA should be known better as pankration. Several fighters have called themselves pankratists and fought in those competitions.
 
Back
Top