Are Indian wrestlers legit?

[ChickenBrother]

@Kforcer
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I don't doubt you have to have incredible genetics to be a bronze and silver medalist olympic freestylw wrestler but I find it very unlikely these guys don't dabble in anabolics (like every other country involved in olympic wrestling). Thats got to change the game a lot in terms of how a lack of meat doesnt impair these guys as much as it would a natural athlete.

Agree completely with your point, but I will say that by the eye test (which is highly fallible), the physiques of the guys in your pics look like regular in-shape natty grapplers.

 

[Kforcer]

Agree completely with your point, but I will say that by the eye test (which is highly fallible), the physiques of the guys in your pics look like regular in-shape natty grapplers.

True, true. It'd be a crappy world if nobody could look like any of those guys without juicing.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Well, kushti is incredibly similar to freestyle and American folkstyle wrestling and is also, obviously, very, very old. So I would think it definitely played some sort of part in the origins of modern freestyle wrestling. It's hard to believe it had no role whatsoever, when it is in many ways, simply freestyle wrestling in mud. It's an ancient wrestling form, practiced continuously from the distant past until today and it has striking similarities to the dominant contemporary forms of wrestling. So the obvious conclusion to reach--to me anyways--is that it has had some influence.

Wrestling that features action on the ground and pinning as a means of victory isn't the most common form. Styles where victory is achieved solely by bringing an opponent off his feet have, historically, been more common, it seems. So the fact that kushti features ground wrestling and pinning certainly stands out and is significant.

Which is why I hope there are more sports diplomacy projects between the US and India wrestlers.

 

[Fluffernutter]

I wasn't familiar with Sushil Kumar but after looking him up, yeah he sounds like a true underdog story. Partially inspired to take up wrestling by his cousin, who had to stop competing because their family could only support one wrestler. Strict vegetarian. And turned down a $70K liquor commercial (when he's not making big money) because he didn't want to promote alcohol to young people. What a badass. But at almost 38, do you think he has a real chance to qualify for the Olympics?

The vegetarian angle is significant. I know it can be done but you must have to be super strict with your diet - just another inconvenience for an athlete when traveling. I tried to give up meat for a week just out of curiosity and after a few days said fuck that. Couldn't train with any kind of intensity and felt like crap. Respect to anyone that does it because the energy and recovery demands of training wrestling are massive, and by far the easiest way for most athletes to do that is to eat a balanced diet including meat.

By the way I didn't think you were accusing me of being racist, just wanted to clarify my post. Agree there's some offensive stuff in this thread and most threads about national origin sadly seem to devolve into that.

Many wrestlers in India are vegetarian. A staple food while training is a "mash" that is made up of almond paste and ghee. It is extremely high in calories (protein and fats).

 

[ChickenBrother]

True, true. It'd be a crappy world if nobody could look like any of those guys without juicing.

Yeah I mean I'm natty, mid 40's and I'm built like the 3 regular looking dudes in the top pic - and I'm intentionally carrying around 10 more lbs of fat than in my 20's and 30's. Was never as lean as the dude in the blue shorts but close. Genetics are a big factor and there's plenty of jacked dudes that are natty and dumpy looking dudes stacking all kinds of gear.

That said, wrestlers aren't training for physique competitions and I think it's only the guys with exceptional genetics (gear or no gear) who can be in competition shape rocking a physique like Jordan Burroughs.

 

[Viper2]

Many parts of India and Pakistan (such as Punjab, Kolhapur, and Sindh) have very naturally strong people with excellent genetics for wrestling. For example, I am half Pakistani/half Indian and I'm 5' 9" tall and 240 pounds. I'm naturally very strong and muscular (not fat), and I've never taken PEDs in my entire life. And yes, wrestling was invented in India. India is the oldest civilization on earth.

 

[TheMaster]

And yes, wrestling was invented in India. India is the oldest civilization on earth.

No it wasn't. Wrestling is far older than any nation, if anything it was invented in Africa.

Living in mythology is not the way to bring the country out of poverty so they can actually one day have the resources to compete on a bigger scale.

India also isn't the oldest civilization, Babylon, China , Egypt are as old but that's a different discussion.

 

[winterbike]

Fun fact: Wrestling was invented in India.

And basketball was invented *by a Canadian*, which explains why we're dominating the international basketball scene. Not many people know this, but Michael Jordan is actually a white guy from a suburb in Toronto.

 

[winterbike]

India is the oldest civilization on earth.

That would be in Mesopotamia. You might notice India is not part of it.

 

[Kforcer]

And basketball was invented in Canada, which explains why we're dominating the international basketball scene.

I'm sure what he really means is that freestyle wrestling was created in India. Of course, we can't know whether or not that is the case for certain, but it is home to a very old style of wrestling which is quite similar to freestyle and may very well have been it's forerunner or at least, among it's forerunners. Even the exercises they practice, such as bridging, are similar. Kushti, Lancashire wrestling, the various versions of American catch-as-catch-can and Persian wrestling all probably have some role in the origins of what eventually became modern freestyle wrestling. And of course, you have the Greek wrestling of the past.

I'm sure there's more than that, but certainly, as others have said, it does stand out that an ancient style like kushti features ground wrestling and pins rather than simply throws and takedowns.

 

[jack36767]

I never want to hear any of you fucks talk shit about education and about voting against education levees. Jesus this is fucking brutal to read

 

[winterbike]

Indigenous forms of wrestling have been invented in all corners of the globe.

No one country, region, or culture can claim they invented wrestling.

You're wrong sir, I've seen koalas wrestle. Clearly Australia is the source of all wrestling.

 

[Fluffernutter]

You're wrong sir, I've seen koalas wrestle. Clearly Australia is the source of all wrestling.

Coreeda

 

[Fluffernutter]

And basketball was invented in Canada, which explains why we're dominating the international basketball scene. Not many people know this, but Michael Jordan is actually a white guy from a suburb in Toronto.

Basketball was invented in Massachusetts

 

[winterbike]

Basketball was fun invented in Massachusetts

Naismith was born and raised in Canada, therefore we claim all his later achievements.

 

[SBC]

I’d say Indian wrestling is doing just fine. They have some hammers -the retired Sushil Kumar and modern Bajrang Punia and Ravi Kumar. This is really good for a country that didn’t put much stock into freestyle until fairly recently. Give them time. One of the things that I like most about MMA is that a a lot of cultures that didn’t really excel in professional combat sports take it up and do very well. It is refreshing to see.

 

[Kforcer]

I’d say Indian wrestling is doing just fine. They have some hammers -the retired Sushil Kumar and modern Bajrang Punia and Ravi Kumar. This is really good for a country that didn’t put much stock into freestyle until fairly recently. Give them time. One of the things that I like most about MMA is that a a lot of cultures that didn’t really excel in professional combat sports take it up and do very well. It is refreshing to see.

Kumar retired? Last I knew he was aiming to get into the Olympics this year, after not being selected in 2016.

EDIT: Wow, I just looked it up and saw that he did, apparently retire. Too bad they didn't pick him in 2016. I think he could've done well. At least they could've let him wrestle for his spot or take it when the other guy was, as I recall, disqualified for whatever reason.

DOUBLE EDIT: Wait, did he retire or just decide he wasn't fit enough for the national championships...? I haven't seen anything about an actual retirement announcement.

 

[SBC]

Kumar retired? Last I knew he was aiming to get into the Olympics this year, after not being selected in 2016.

EDIT: Wow, I just looked it up and saw that he did, apparently retire. Too bad they didn't pick him in 2016. I think he could've done well. At least they could've let him wrestle for his spot or take it when the other guy was, as I recall, disqualified for whatever reason.

DOUBLE EDIT: Wait, did he retire or just decide he wasn't fit enough for the national championships...? I haven't seen anything about an actual retirement announcement.

There was a scandal surrounding that whole situation evolving Kumar himself. Narsingh Yadav had won Bronze at the world championships and due to India using a quota system used on most recent results, he was chosen to represent India at the Olympics in 2016. Kumar thought this unfair because of his placing at the prior 2 Olympics and took his case to the Delhi courts. He was rejected. 10 days prior to the Olympics Yadav tested positive for steroids. The claim from Yadav was that his food had been laced by a wrestler from Kumar’s club. Far flung I know, but that is what happened. They sent somebody else instead.

 

[Kforcer]

There was a scandal surrounding that whole situation evolving Kumar himself. Narsingh Yadav had won Bronze at the world championships and due to India using a quota system used on most recent results, he was chosen to represent India at the Olympics in 2016. Kumar thought this unfair because of his placing at the prior 2 Olympics and took his case to the Delhi courts. He was rejected. 10 days prior to the Olympics Yadav tested positive for steroids. The claim from Yadav was that his food had been laced by a wrestler from Kumar’s club. Far flung I know, but that is what happened. They sent somebody else instead.

Yeah, I feel like they should have picked Kumar when the other dude was rejected. But really, just 'em wrestle each other.

 

[nefti]

Many parts of India and Pakistan (such as Punjab, Kolhapur, and Sindh) have very naturally strong people with excellent genetics for wrestling. For example, I am half Pakistani/half Indian and I'm 5' 9" tall and 240 pounds. I'm naturally very strong and muscular (not fat), and I've never taken PEDs in my entire life. And yes, wrestling was invented in India. India is the oldest civilization on earth.

Lol so you are basically ripped like jeff Monson?