Are there actually any cases of "you can't win in thailand unless you get a KO"?

[AndyMaBobs]

In phuket there is a whole industry of gyms where there main income is farang paying pretty large amounts of money to train. If they organise a fight for them they are more likely to stay longer and spend more money on privates etc. Often the foreigner will want to be able to say they fought and beat a thai in thailand. So they organise a fight against any random thai dude in bangla. Could be a tuk tuk driver who did a bit of muay thai in his youth. These guys often take dives cos the money is not worth it. I don't know whether they are told to or not. After the win the foreigner is also more likely to stay on than if he got outclassed or the shit beaten out of him.

That's 100% what I anticipated. I remember when I was a staff writer at Muay Thai Guy, Shane said something to the effect of 'no seriously fight a westerner'

 

[thunder and fury]

That's 100% what I anticipated. I remember when I was a staff writer at Muay Thai Guy, Shane said something to the effect of 'no seriously fight a westerner'

You were with Muay Thai Guy ? Well that explain allot .

 

[SandisLL]

These guys often take dives cos the money is not worth it. I don't know whether they are told to or not.

I think that no, because then they asked considerably more $ + promoters and managers don't want that any fighter feel " power " ower promoter.
-
Pick up correct opponent that can't win = cheaper and safe.
/
Like in small european promotions, if they have ( not rarerly ) KB fight just to fill card and other fights at single event.
They not rarerly a bit regulate willingless to win with……......contract.
For example, a promoter might offer contract: purse for fight is 2000, winner will get 1100, looser 900. Then most likely fight will be full distance, nobody wants to risk with hard concussion for extra 200, so lesser openings to attempt KO a guy etc.
If promoter want harsh fight, he might split purse like 200 if guy will be defeated and 1800 if he will won fight.
*
This is legal and cheap method.
---
tuk tuk driver too might be offered base purse plus just few bucks more if he will won. For few extra bucks risk with concussion, no business for tuk tuk driver at all.
Also, most likely like in pro boxing with some sort of fighters might happen: if one can't defeat opponents, managers are calling frequently and are offering next fights.

 

[Kanka]

I think that no, because then they asked considerably more $ + promoters and managers don't want that any fighter feel " power " ower promoter.
-
Pick up correct opponent that can't win = cheaper and safe.
/
Like in small european promotions, if they have ( not rarerly ) KB fight just to fill card and other fights at single event.
They not rarerly a bit regulate willingless to win with……......contract.
For example, a promoter might offer contract: purse for fight is 2000, winner will get 1100, looser 900. Then most likely fight will be full distance, nobody wants to risk with hard concussion for extra 200, so lesser openings to attempt KO a guy etc.
If promoter want harsh fight, he might split purse like 200 if guy will be defeated and 1800 if he will won fight.
*
This is legal and cheap method.
---
tuk tuk driver too might be offered base purse plus just few bucks more if he will won. For few extra bucks risk with concussion, no business for tuk tuk driver at all.
Also, most likely like in pro boxing with some sort of fighters might happen: if one can't defeat opponents, managers are calling frequently and are offering next fights.

Do you just make up all of this?

 

[SandisLL]

Do you just make up all of this?

I have no business to argue here about matchmaking further.

 

[SandisLL]

After the win the foreigner is also more likely to stay on than if he got outclassed or the shit beaten out of him.

This yes too, plus for fighter that already does have reputation, to bang some farang nobody novice with 0-0 record too isn't lucrative for further reputation building.
tuk tuk driver also is cheapest fighter, why waste extra $.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Do you just make up all of this?

You were able to read that?

 

[Kanka]

You were able to read that?

Just in case: He is saying that it's not logical to match foreigners against thais that might take a dive, because fighters will ask for more money to take dives. Rather, he suggests it's makes more sense to match them against thais that have no chance of winning in first place.

@SandisLL Your agument is only true to the extent that decent thais and above decent thais thais that are building a reputation are fighting in other stadiums such as Channel 7, Omnoi, smaller stadiums in the countryside and even Max Muay Thai. Bangla is for making money off tourists, so yeah the thais that fight at Bangla might be at a level where the tourists have a good chance of winning.

But the thai also has to from time to time, otherwise nobody would pay to watch fights. Some of the tuk tuk drivers that fight there are just looking to make an extra buck, not to build a reputation. If they're going to lose or get hurt, it makes more sense just to take a dive and go home and provide for their family. At competitivd stadiums this is more difficult because there is gambling involved and taking a dive can result in prison.

 

[SandisLL]

@SandisLL Your agument is only true to the extent that decent thais and above decent thais thais that are building a reputation are fighting in other stadiums such as Channel 7, Omnoi, smaller stadiums in the countryside and even Max Muay Thai. Bangla is for making money off tourists, so yeah the thais that fight at Bangla might be at a level where the tourists have a good chance of winning.

Well, for example judges in forums most likely doesn't know ……………………...
soul of karate at least…………...isn't about respect or any modern belt. Or to entertain anyone.
Fighting is YOUR conversation with YOURSELF more than dreaming about purses of belts.
-------------

At competitivd stadiums this is more difficult because there is gambling involved and taking a dive can result in prison.

I never had asked to took a dive.
Plus maybe I'm a bitch, but I never even asked change weight class week or more before fight.
Not alone about dives etc…...……..
----
I maybe a bitch, but I do have respect too.
And I only matchmaking advisor for pro boxing.

 

[Kanka]

Well, for example judges in forums most likely doesn't know ……………………...
soul of karate at least…………...isn't about respect or any modern belt. Or to entertain anyone.
Fighting is YOUR conversation with YOURSELF more than dreaming about purses of belts.
-------------

I never had asked to took a dive.
Plus maybe I'm a bitch, but I never even asked change weight class week or more before fight.
Not alone about dives etc…...……..
----
I maybe a bitch, but I do have respect too.
And I only matchmaking advisor for pro boxing.

I'm not talking about you... I'm talking about Bangla stadium in thailand.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

Wow its been a minute since ive been on here. Stupid covid.

If you aren't just as well versed in body/high kicks, knees and clinch as the Thais, your best bet is a knockout. A boxing lowkick game wont get you that far with scoring, though there are Thais that specialize in that.

As far as robberies, i think the foreigners that play the "Thai game" for the lack of a better way to describe it get scored pretty fairly, of course there will always be some element of hometown/nationalism, but ive never seen a foreigner get robbed on the scorecards, then again foreigners who can beat or even be competitive with Thais at Thai scoring are few and far between.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

I know it sounds simplistic, but after over a decade of watching Muay Thai, I feel in the big stadiums particularly (after the more savage golden era of the 90s early 2000s), even in the smaller provincial shows, it has been all about counting clean kicks and knees and also seeing which fighter can keep a strong stance/balance and wont turn their back away or fall to the ground(under any circumstance, whether its from a sweep/dump or from slipping themselves).

If you think about it, it makes it easier for the bettors to visually see who wins. They don't care about entertainment, they want to win money and the cleanest most obvious techniques you can see landing are a kick, a knee, and the other guy falling/stumbling. Muay Thai in Thailand is a sport steeply rooted in gambling, like cockfighting. There is a hierarchy to strikes and certain strikes/maneuvers are more valuable than others in the eyes of Thai judges.

For fighters, if you receive a body/high kick, you either dodge it or block it (with a leg CHECK, not your arms, using an arm block doesn't register as a valid block) and answer back, that cancels out the point. If you just take it on your guard and don't do anything or use an arm block and answer with a flurry of punches like a lot of westerners do, it isn't seen as effective and thus is a point against you. You could also catch the kick and sweep it away/return fire, or go for a trip/sweep.

From my experience/observations punches/elbows don't count for much unless you rock/cut your opponent or make him dramatically retreat or show fear/pain.

I love the sport, but Muay Thai is really its own thing. It's not boxing or kickboxing (both have many similarities in scoring/officiating).

Maybe the scoring can be compared to Tae kwon do, except with no protection, shin contact, knees, lowkicks, punches/elbows allowed.

If anyone disagrees with my thoughts on stadium Muay Thai I'd love to hear what you think.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

I watch more international Muay Thai these days, the technical skill level doesn't compare at all, but they really try to entertain and get the KO.

 

[Kanka]

If anyone disagrees with my thoughts on stadium Mu

I know it sounds simplistic, but after over a decade of watching Muay Thai, I feel in the big stadiums particularly (after the more savage golden era of the 90s early 2000s), even in the smaller provincial shows, it has been all about counting clean kicks and knees and also seeing which fighter can keep a strong stance/balance and wont turn their back away or fall to the ground(under any circumstance, whether its from a sweep/dump or from slipping themselves).

If you think about it, it makes it easier for the bettors to visually see who wins. They don't care about entertainment, they want to win money and the cleanest most obvious techniques you can see landing are a kick, a knee, and the other guy falling/stumbling. Muay Thai in Thailand is a sport steeply rooted in gambling, like cockfighting. There is a hierarchy to strikes and certain strikes/maneuvers are more valuable than others in the eyes of Thai judges.

For fighters, if you receive a body/high kick, you either dodge it or block it (with a leg CHECK, not your arms, using an arm block doesn't register as a valid block) and answer back, that cancels out the point. If you just take it on your guard and don't do anything or use an arm block and answer with a flurry of punches like a lot of westerners do, it isn't seen as effective and thus is a point against you. You could also catch the kick and sweep it away/return fire, or go for a trip/sweep.

From my experience/observations punches/elbows don't count for much unless you rock/cut your opponent or make him dramatically retreat or show fear/pain.

I love the sport, but Muay Thai is really its own thing. It's not boxing or kickboxing (both have many similarities in scoring/officiating).

Maybe the scoring can be compared to Tae kwon do, except with no protection, shin contact, knees, lowkicks, punches/elbows allowed.

If anyone disagrees with my thoughts on stadium Muay Thai I'd love to hear what you think.

I think the punches don't score thing is a bit overstated. It seems to me like they score like any other strike, if they have the same impact.

 

[Kanka]

I watch more international Muay Thai these days, the technical skill level doesn't compare at all, but they really try to entertain and get the KO.

What is there to watch? Lately i've just been following Stadium Muay Thai and ONE. The promotions in europe seem to be dead. Haven't gotten into the japanese scene yet.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

I think the punches don't score thing is a bit overstated. It seems to me like they score like any other strike, if they have the same impact.

That's probably a better way to put it actually. Impact is the key word with Thai scoring. Volume of punches is rewarded so highly in boxing/kickboxing and people who have been raised in the western world automatically gravitate toward that sort of paradigm of boxing centric "how many times can I touch you with my glove" type scoring. When I say punches don't score much at all it makes it sound like they have no effect on the outcome of a fight, but there are a handful of Thai knockout artists too.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

What is there to watch? Lately i've just been following Stadium Muay Thai and ONE. The promotions in europe seem to be dead. Haven't gotten into the japanese scene yet.

Haven't been keeping up with the Muay Thai scene in recent years, but ONE seems to be where it's at as far as high-level talent going international, mma glove Muay Thai matches ftw.

I don't even watch up to date stuff lol. I'll literally go on YouTube once a week and look up semi-recent fights in amateur/lower-tier promotions mostly in the UK/Australia/France. I just like the rawness compared to how polished the majority of stadium fights tend to be now.

 

[MilesP4P]

Kind of off topic but I have a question to anyone who can answer it. Alot of camps in Thailand seem to cater to foreigners coming to train and then setting them up with muay thai fights. My question is do they do the same thing for mma, like are there any camps you can come to, train and bet set up with a fight? and lastly, do these fights count as proffesional sanctioned bouts?

 

[Tayski]

I've never seen the fights with Dida Diafat and Stephan Nikiema so I can't comment on those results.

Steve Armstrong also has a lot of old fights on here:
https://vimeo.com/user50805189

 

[The Rivv]

I imagine it can happen. It’s the price you pay when you fight in an incredibly proud and nationality country like Thailand. Especially since it’s their national sport. BUT you will probably get the same exact thing fighting in Holland ESPECIALLY if you’re Thai.

However a lot of this can come down to rules. Kickboxers who fight under Kickboxing rules can have a hard time under MT rules, and vice versa. Plus there can be a difference in the “culture” of fighting and what you’re expected to do in each round.

This stuff always devolves into blatant racism or disrespect. It’s either by those who are bigoted against Thais and think the only reason whites don’t win is because of bias. Or Thais who are bigoted against whites. Or the third option of those who culture worship either Thailand or a European country(usually Holland). When in reality we aren’t homogenous and they’re just individuals with their own experience. Tough culture can play a part as Thais fight far more and from an earlier age.