ATF may rule AR and AK pistols as AOWs

RerouteToRemain said:
Well sure but I'm talking about actually using it in public, it's not something I'd personally want to push the envelope on.
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Oh, yeah of course not. I frequent the old logging trails out here to shoot so public really is the least concern. But you raise a great point. The more we try to skirt existing laws and regulations, the more the BATFE will crack down. it really feels like its coming to a head soon
 
evergreenrider said:
Oh, yeah of course not. I frequent the old logging trails out here to shoot so public really is the least concern. But you raise a great point. The more we try to skirt existing laws and regulations, the more the BATFE will crack down. it really feels like its coming to a head soon
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Yeah it is. This is the ATF trying to justify its budget to the incoming Biden/Harris team.
 
FyrFytr998 said:
Yeah it is. This is the ATF trying to justify its budget to the incoming Biden/Harris team.
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or they realized that 1000s of people found a work around to the SBR tax stamp, and the ATF stopped getting their tax stamp money.
 
wvboy said:
or they realized that 1000s of people found a work around to the SBR tax stamp, and the ATF stopped getting their tax stamp money.
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Too bad banning braces still doesn’t stop the ability to field a short weapon without a tax stamp.
 
I feel like making millions of people felons overnight can have unintended consequences.
 
I’m 100% pro 2A, but can say this is what happens when we, the gun owning community, flaunt the ATF’s ineptitude in their face.

So where does this current action to infringe our rights leaves us? Well.... dudes can just take the braces off and run their pistols like they did before braces. They can say fuck it and not comply. Or they can register.

Personally, I’m dropping the brace. My weapon runs just fine without one, and my weapon will still be 100% legal......until it isn’t the next go around.
 
FyrFytr998 said:
I’m 100% pro 2A, but can say this is what happens when we, the gun owning community, flaunt the ATF’s ineptitude in their face.

So where does this current action to infringe our rights leaves us? Well.... dudes can just take the braces off and run their pistols like they did before braces. They can say fuck it and not comply. Or they can register.

Personally, I’m dropping the brace. My weapon runs just fine without one, and my weapon will still be 100% legal......until it isn’t the next go around.
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In the meantime send a letter to the atf, it's open for 2 weeks for comments.

If enough letters and outrage for it exist it can help us. It did when they considered banning green tips as AP rounds.
 
RerouteToRemain said:
In the meantime send a letter to the atf, it's open for 2 weeks for comments.

If enough letters and outrage for it exist it can help us. It did when they considered banning green tips as AP rounds.
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Yeah I got my letter in already.

For everyone else.....
Read this......
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...r-classifying-weapons-with-stabilizing-braces

Then go here and click comment button.......
https://beta.regulations.gov/document/ATF-2020-0001-0001
 
Here is something I can offer those that still want a shorter weapon, but do not want the $200 SBR tax stamp, and want two grips......

Make a Non NFA “Other” weapon off a virgin receiver.
Barrel more than 12”
OAL 26” or more
VFG

upload_2020-12-22_10-53-8.jpeg

So it’s not a pistol with a barrel more than 12” inches so two hand grips are legal.

No stock or brace makes it not a Rifle since it can’t be shouldered.

More than 26” OAL makes it not an AOW.

Make them while you still can. I’m sure these are gonna be looked at soon as well. A nice tight sling makes up for a lack of shouldering, and the two hand grips tame recoil which is minimal to begin with.
 
FyrFytr998 said:
Here is something I can offer those that still want a shorter weapon, but do not want the $200 SBR tax stamp, and want two grips......

Make a Non NFA “Other” weapon off a virgin receiver.
Barrel more than 12”
OAL 26” or more
VFG

View attachment 821455

So it’s not a pistol with a barrel more than 12” inches so two hand grips are legal.

No stock or brace makes it not a Rifle since it can’t be shouldered.

More than 26” OAL makes it not an AOW.

Make them while you still can. I’m sure these are gonna be looked at soon as well. A nice tight sling makes up for a lack of shouldering, and the two hand grips tame recoil which is minimal to begin with.
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lol

Common sense gun laws at work.
 
I left my comment on that ATF page the MAC and others keep linking.

Got a little wordy but also included, at least twice "you're enforcement, not a legislative body. Stay in your lane"
 
@Gregolian must have tore them a new one.....the DoJ issued a retraction of the guidance and comments after Congress got involved.

(Billing Code: 4410-FY-P)
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
Docket No. 2020R-10W
Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with “Stabilizing Braces”; Withdrawal
of Guidance
AGENCY: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, Department of
Justice.
ACTION: Notice; withdrawal.
SUMMARY: The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (“ATF”) is
announcing the withdrawal of a notice and request for comments entitled “Objective
Factors for Classifying Weapons with ‘Stabilizing Braces’,” that was published on
December 18, 2020.
DATES: The withdrawal is effective [INSERT DATE OF PUBLICATION IN THE
FEDERAL REGISTER].
ADDRESSES: This Notice also will be made available on the ATF Web site
(www.atf.gov).
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Andrew Lange, Office of Regulatory
Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and
Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Ave. NE, Mail Stop 6N-518,
Washington DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070 (this is not a toll-free number).
SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION:

Upon further consultation with the Department of Justice and the Office of the
Deputy Attorney General, ATF is withdrawing, pending further Department of Justice
review, the notice and request for comments entitled “Objective Factors for Classifying
Weapons with ‘Stabilizing Braces’,” that was published on December 18, 2020. 85 FR
82516. As explained in the notice, the proposed guidance was not a regulation. The
notice informed and invited comment from the industry and public on a proposed
guidance prior to issuing a final guidance document.
The withdrawal of the guidance does not change any law, regulation, or other
legally binding requirement.

December 23, 2020 Marvin G. Richardson

Associate Deputy Director
 
FyrFytr998 said:
@Gregolian must have tore them a new one.....the DoJ issued a retraction of the guidance and comments after Congress got involved.

(Billing Code: 4410-FY-P)
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
Docket No. 2020R-10W
Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with “Stabilizing Braces”; Withdrawal
of Guidance
AGENCY: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, Department of
Justice.
ACTION: Notice; withdrawal.
SUMMARY: The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (“ATF”) is
announcing the withdrawal of a notice and request for comments entitled “Objective
Factors for Classifying Weapons with ‘Stabilizing Braces’,” that was published on
December 18, 2020.
DATES: The withdrawal is effective [INSERT DATE OF PUBLICATION IN THE
FEDERAL REGISTER].
ADDRESSES: This Notice also will be made available on the ATF Web site
(www.atf.gov).
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Andrew Lange, Office of Regulatory
Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and
Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Ave. NE, Mail Stop 6N-518,
Washington DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070 (this is not a toll-free number).
SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION:

Upon further consultation with the Department of Justice and the Office of the
Deputy Attorney General, ATF is withdrawing, pending further Department of Justice
review, the notice and request for comments entitled “Objective Factors for Classifying
Weapons with ‘Stabilizing Braces’,” that was published on December 18, 2020. 85 FR
82516. As explained in the notice, the proposed guidance was not a regulation. The
notice informed and invited comment from the industry and public on a proposed
guidance prior to issuing a final guidance document.
The withdrawal of the guidance does not change any law, regulation, or other
legally binding requirement.

December 23, 2020 Marvin G. Richardson

Associate Deputy Director
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I dropped a comment on the comments you could leave and outlined how their “objective” guidelines weren’t objective at all as I can shoot a 16” AR with one hand but say Paige Van Zant might struggle just from a size perspective and that you shoot handguns nowadays with two hands on it.

Pretty sure I also highlighted that they’re enforcement, not legislation and should stay in their lane. I said it twice.

I almost included a line about the agency that committed Waco and had a program get a border patrol agent shouldn’t dictate what civilians can do with firearms but deleted that paragraph.
 
One of the local gun manufacturers around me says his ATF source told him this is just for them to regroup and submit again when Biden takes over.

If this wasn't just a try at backdoor registration and tax money, the ATF could have easily rectified the brace issue by retracting it's stance on the shouldering of braces designed for one arm operation. This would have left braces legal and used as designed. But they went for the grand slam instead of a base hit and whiffed. Up until they made that letter saying you can shoulder a brace, no one cared about braces outside of how a weapon looks if you're able bodied. Let's not lie to ourselves.
 
FyrFytr998 said:
One of the local gun manufacturers around me says his ATF source told him this is just for them to regroup and submit again when Biden takes over.

If this wasn't just a try at backdoor registration and tax money, the ATF could have easily rectified the brace issue by retracting it's stance on the shouldering of braces designed for one arm operation. This would have left braces legal and used as designed. But they went for the grand slam instead of a base hit and whiffed. Up until they made that letter saying you can shoulder a brace, no one cared about braces outside of how a weapon looks if you're able bodied. Let's not lie to ourselves.
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still doesnt get them anywhere. People were shouldering braces before the ATF 'allowed' it to be a thing. The ATF has no meaningful way of regulating the process of use of an item anymore than a dildo manufacturer can ensure their double ended 18in Mandingo Platinum is 'only' used in a va-jay-jay.
 
Roaming East said:
still doesnt get them anywhere. People were shouldering braces before the ATF 'allowed' it to be a thing. The ATF has no meaningful way of regulating the process of use of an item anymore than a dildo manufacturer can ensure their double ended 18in Mandingo Platinum is 'only' used in a va-jay-jay.
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Not entirely true. The ATF could shadow ranges and ticket offenders it see, if it wanted to. Was done at a couple ranges in my state before the okay. These fuckers have a way of just popping up from time to time. It just wouldn't be practical to do it day in and out. And the fact that people were doing it anyways, proves their point that it was a workaround to paying $200 for an SBR tax stamp. Hence the reason they tried to go after them and make them NFA items.

Let's be honest and call a spade a spade. 95% of people that run braces don't do it due to a disability or small stature.
 
The ATF doesnt have the manpower to even begin to attempt to enforce that kind of thing.
Randomly put agents at a range to 'bust' them for shouldering a brace? Dude, the only people that even bother with stuff like that are range fudds who like to hassle you over stamps. I got an SOT and i LOVE to bring out the fun stuff when i know some piss offed old timer is going to be sharing my range space
 
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