Economy Australia pays $50 Billion for diesel submarines.

rob mafia said:
lolz. i either never heard of this hilarious deal or forgot all about it. fucking australia. they'll lose to emus by sea, as well.
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Australians about to get their new naval force crushed by saltwater crocs imo.
 
Diesel for defense of their island actually makes more sense. They're harder to detect by sonar or any other method than nuclear, and many models actual win "dog-fights" with nuclear subs more often. Diesels just have to run on batteries when underwater and that severely cripples their remain underwater time. But for attackers or seeker subs, they're perfectly fine and preferred.

The biggest benefit of a nuclear submarine is its ability to stay underwater for practically as long as sailors have food and fresh water. The reason this is a benefit is that they can sit parked and hidden outside a country with an armed nuclear missile. Talk about deterences.

So, if not wanting subs for nuclear weapon purposes, diesel really does make more sense.
 
HockeyBjj said:
Diesel for defense of their island actually makes more sense. They're harder to detect by sonar or any other method than nuclear, and many models actual win "dog-fights" with nuclear subs more often.
The biggest benefit of a nuclear submarine is its ability to stay underwater for practically as long as sailors have food and fresh water. The reason this is a benefit is that they can sit parked and hidden outside a country with an armed nuclear missile. Talk about deterences.
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Retired US Submariner here. We did some war games with various diesel boats, they are very difficult to detect. I had a chance to tour some Norwegian boats and was impressed. They are magnitudes smaller, as were their armaments. But their purpose was littoral defense, with projected underway times of days, not months.
As far as limitation on Nuclear boats, fresh water is indeed a crucial asset. That's why we make our own. Steam distilling, vapor distilling, and reverse osmosis type units replenish on-board supplies on a daily basis. No fun when units break and showers are secured.
 
Cyrano200 said:
Retired US Submariner here. We did some war games with various diesel boats, they are very difficult to detect. I had a chance to tour some Norwegian boats and was impressed. They are magnitudes smaller, as were their armaments. But their purpose was littoral defense, with projected underway times of days, not months.
As far as limitation on Nuclear boats, fresh water is indeed a crucial asset. That's why we make our own. Steam distilling, vapor distilling, and reverse osmosis type units replenish on-board supplies on a daily basis. No fun when units break and showers are secured.
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Yikes, I can smell this post.
 
Cyrano200 said:
Retired US Submariner here. We did some war games with various diesel boats, they are very difficult to detect. I had a chance to tour some Norwegian boats and was impressed. They are magnitudes smaller, as were their armaments. But their purpose was littoral defense, with projected underway times of days, not months.
As far as limitation on Nuclear boats, fresh water is indeed a crucial asset. That's why we make our own. Steam distilling, vapor distilling, and reverse osmosis type units replenish on-board supplies on a daily basis. No fun when units break and showers are secured.
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Thanks. Appreciate the insight from someone who actually knows and has experience with the topic. Pretty rare haha
 
squeezewax said:
What a joke!
We are getting 12 DIESEL powered subs! Delivery will start in 2034! The final one will arrive around 2057! Can you believe that?

No nuclear subs for us, no way, we want diesel! China must be really scared of our navy! We can't even defend our coastline at the moment.

In 2009 we were told the most urgent need is for new submarines, the PM signed on the deal today, 2019, wow that's really urgent. If we back out we will have to pay millions to the French.

Many experts are saying these submarine are totally unsuitable and that we should have nuclear powered subs. However so many Aussie hate the word nuclear.
As someone on tv said today, it's like someone in 1900 ordering the latest Zeppelin and getting the final delivery after WWII!
It's embarrassing, and i bet America would rather we had made a better choice too.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02...red-by-french-during-submarine-talks/10797920
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there was an article saying how we offered to give you Los Angeles class subs.

But because you're pm didnt want further modernize your nuclear capabilities yall said no. Would have been better, this deal is fucking stupid. Thats way to damn much
 
GhostZ06 said:
there was an article saying how we offered to give you Los Angeles class subs.
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Are there any advantages of nuclear submarines over diesel besides power projection?
 
Rod1 said:
Are there any advantages of nuclear submarines over diesel besides power projection?
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A nuclear submarine is a submarine powered by a nuclear reactor.
The performance advantages of nuclear submarines over "conventional" (typically diesel-electric) submarine are considerable.
Nuclear propulsion, being completely independence of air, frees the submarine from the need to surface frequently, as is necessary for conventional submarines.
The large amount of power generated by a nuclear reactor allows nuclear submarines to operate at high speed for long periods of time; and the long interval between refueling grants a range limited only by consumables such as food.
Current generations of nuclear submarines never need to be refueled throughout their 25-year lifespans.
The high cost of nuclear technology means that relatively few states have fielded nuclear submarine.
  1. Extreme underwater endurance - it typically has fuel to last a decade or more. Water and oxygen can be produced on board. Endurance is presently limited by the food store and the sanity of the crew. There is a question about the chemicals used to remove carbon dioxide from the air. Overtime, CO2 can build up to a toxic level, regardless of the amount of oxygen available. Chemicals are used to “scrub” CO2 from the air. I am not positive, but I believe there is a way to “recharge” these chemical scrubbers (i.e. Force the chemical to release the CO2 to be available for reuse. CO2 gets ejected from the sub.).
  2. Lots of power - The tremendous power on tap allows a nuclear sub to travel above 30 kts continuously. Most diesel-electric subs have a top speed of a little over 20 kts and then, only for a short time.
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https://defenseissues.net/2013/03/03/aip-vs-nuclear-submarines/


also here...

basically AIP's are totally gonna get man handled in blue water. Now im not sure, but american nuclear subs are extremely advanced, i mean the seawolf was so advanced we couldn't afford it, we ended up only building 3.
 
GhostZ06 said:
https://defenseissues.net/2013/03/03/aip-vs-nuclear-submarines/


also here...

basically AIP's are totally gonna get man handled in blue water. Now im not sure, but american nuclear subs are extremely advanced, i mean the seawolf was so advanced we couldn't afford it, we ended up only building 3.
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The only "manhandling" seems to be the lack of range and speed, if we go by your particular article it seems that the AIPs are better for what a sub was designed to do mainly due to stealth.
 
Rod1 said:
The only "manhandling" seems to be the lack of range and speed, if we go by your particular article it seems that the AIPs are better for what a sub was designed to do mainly due to stealth.
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well if it got dragged out to sea in open ocean i think its combat effectiveness would go down alot
 
GhostZ06 said:
well if it got dragged out to sea in open ocean i think its combat effectiveness would go down alot
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Why? The only downside would be being forced to return home after a while.
 
GhostZ06 said:
possibily, but most of the capabilities of submarines is super classified. those new columbia classes that are being developed will have some Weird hybrid between electric and nuclear...
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Yeah, but i doubt that the US would share its latest tech with Australia, also Australia doesnt has nukes.

For the purpose of ship hunting it seems that diesel-electric that the advantage due to stealth.
 
Rod1 said:
For the purpose of ship hunting it seems that diesel-electric that the advantage due to stealth.
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significantly slower though, they can't chase down a 30kt ship in the open ocean. luckily the area is riddled with choke points, but that requires getting there ahead of the enemy
 
lol just lol even brazil is building nuclear submarines, get with the times you skint bogan buggers
 
flashNsmash said:
significantly slower though, they can't chase down a 30kt ship in the open ocean. luckily the area is riddled with choke points, but that requires getting there ahead of the enemy
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But arent submarines at full speed easily detected?
 
Rod1 said:
But arent submarines at full speed easily detected?
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generally yeah, but surface combatants operating at high speed can't deploy their towed arrays either. i meant that nuke boats generally have more latitude to make an intercept whereas diesel-electric boats can be caught out of position against a fast target like a carrier battle group
 
squeezewax said:
What a joke!
We are getting 12 DIESEL powered subs! Delivery will start in 2034! The final one will arrive around 2057! Can you believe that?

No nuclear subs for us, no way, we want diesel! China must be really scared of our navy! We can't even defend our coastline at the moment.

In 2009 we were told the most urgent need is for new submarines, the PM signed on the deal today, 2019, wow that's really urgent. If we back out we will have to pay millions to the French.

Many experts are saying these submarine are totally unsuitable and that we should have nuclear powered subs. However so many Aussie hate the word nuclear.
As someone on tv said today, it's like someone in 1900 ordering the latest Zeppelin and getting the final delivery after WWII!
It's embarrassing, and i bet America would rather we had made a better choice too.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02...red-by-french-during-submarine-talks/10797920
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2034...that is a long ways away. By then Sherdog would be fossilized and we would all be playing checkers , cards and bingo.

Edit, didn't realize this is an old thread.
 
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