International Australia to Buy Nuclear Attack Submarine from US; France Furious Over Betrayal

[Ruprecht]

To reaffirm - we should have told them first.

However, they should have known they fucked it up.

The original deal was $50B, and it had almost doubled.
DCNS, who was the French partner, were hacked and 22,000 documents relating to their Scorpene submarines were released. These submarines were being built for India.
The French regularly failed to meet project milestones to the point where our Defence Minister refused to meet the French Naval group when they visited Australia.
90% of jobs were contracted to be made locally. This was then reduced to 60%, and then pushed back again by the French.

Basically the fucked it to the amount of tens and tens of billions of dollars and unable to meet milestones. Australia had been openly talking about its disappointment for a long time and the French should not be surprised the pin was pulled.

No doubt they oversold their ability to convert a nuclear design to a conventional design and produce it locally. Not to mention the original agreement was made before life-of-ship reactors were a thing from my understanding (edit: I was wrong. They entered service in 2004), let alone something that the US would be willing to transfer technology for. That's a massive upgrade of capability for what's estimated as about a 5 year delay from when the first Barracudas would have been produced.
There hasn't really been any explanation for the lack of transparency though.
Not only in relation to the submarines, but the obvious shift in strategy towards China.

 

[BIKES!]

The irony of that is usa wouldn't exist without the French...

I don’t know if providing supplies holds the same
weight as conquering their enemy and saving their nation…

 

[grimballer]

1st the afghanistan exit and now this...

i guess that what it means when they say "adults are back" and "working with our allies".

btw gotta love all the usual tds hacks that came to defend this move

 

[aunshi189]

Biden just pissed off France. I heard they pulled their ambassador. That's a fucking crazy event.

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...adors-to-us-australia-in-protest-of-submarine

Internationally... Biden is a train wreck for the U.S.A.

Everything that guy has touched turns to shit.

What's the point of the UK even being a part of this pact if we're not getting to piss off the French as much as well?

 

[Anewt]

I don’t know if providing supplies holds the same
weight as conquering their enemy and saving their nation…

Ummm... do you know how well wars tend to go without supplies?

Also being integral to the founding and a lot of the principles coming from the French has quite a bit of weight.

Also, it happened in the past... do you think most things that happened in the past should hold weight to now?

it's a 2 way street.. if you feel France should shut up for your countries past " actions ". Do you feel America owes a debt for its negative actions ?

Personally the actions of even the enemies of the allies have and rightfully so stopped being used as a cudgel to hold over them.. why should Americans expect their good history to carry weight at the same time saying their negative history shouldn't?

 

[BIKES!]

Ummm... do you know how well wars tend to go without supplies?

Also being integral to the founding and a lot of the principles coming from the French has quite a bit of weight.

Also, it happened in the past... do you think most things that happened in the past should hold weight to now?

it's a 2 way street.. if you feel France should shut up for your countries past " actions ". Do you feel America owes a debt for its negative actions ?

Personally the actions of even the enemies of the allies have and rightfully so stopped being used as a cudgel to hold over them.. why should Americans expect their good history to carry weight at the same time saying their negative history shouldn't?

You are taking this the wrong way. I’m just saying France is a bunch of white flag waving pussies and I could care less about their support in today’s world. Sure there was a time where they were relevant but I have zero respect for how they have been governing the last 40 years…

 

[Mike Hagger]

Australia/UK > France

Good work though dems, even Trump didn’t have France literally pack their shit and leave. That’s embarrassing.

 

[Darkballs]

The delicate sounds of the left eating itself.

How does this work as the left eating itself?

We made a deal which seems to be in the greater national security interest (aren't you guys always claiming Obama is soft on China?), by giving bigger-dicked submarines to the Aussies and screwing France out of a multi-billion dollar deal. Now I get why France would be pissed, but why are you throwing a fit? I don't see liberals complaining about this deal. Just you twats, and you can't even think of a sensible angle to go about it.

 

[CaptHANDSUP]

You could say that in a way this is the French waving the white flag again as they are already folding in the fight against the spread of autocracy into developed countries.

Very spineless to not take a strong stance against the ccp by staying united with nato powers in a time like this.

 

[MMA Time Soldier]

Not even the public spat over Iraq in 2003 or Trump's presidency had caused France to lose its shit like this. Great job Murica! How's the whole "adults back in the room" thing going?

Aukus: France recalls envoys amid security pact row - BBC News


France recalls its ambassadors to US and Australia in submarine deal backlash (france24.com)

White Privilege Joe Biden destroying American diplomacy and making more enemies to further the pockets of his political cronies and corporations

 

[A Lurker]

No. It's how it was handled. Their is clearly a better way to work with our closest allies, or at least there used to be.

Disingenuous hackery.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

this is very bad.

 

[X Factor]

How far ahead are US nuclear subs, technologically, as compared to other subs around the world would you say? And who is Rickover?

It’s kinda of hard to say really, not very many countries currently have nuclear subs, and the capability as well as upkeep ranges for a countries preferences and budget. Diesel electric offer different strategic advantages with some big downsides in range vs nuclear. Nuclear is generally seen as better overall because of its advantages in things like speed and fuel.

There are many, many, many, other technologies on subs other then the propulsion aspect like Sonor, radar, photonics masts, etc, etc. in my biased opinion I think US has an edge in most aspects especially from an operator capability point of view.

Hyman Rickover was the father of nuclear powered subs in the US Navy. He basically spear headed the efforts into nuclear powered ships.
I would recommend a book called “Blind mans bluff”

 

[Fluffernutter]

Awaiting a deal being reached between US airlines and Airbus so that everyone saves face.

 

[A Lurker]

Honestly fuck France on this one. Giving elite subs to Australia pisses off China so I'm for it

Correct Answer

 

[A Lurker]

Awaiting a deal being reached between US airlines and Airbus so that everyone saves face.

This post should technically be in the stonks thread

 

[Fluffernutter]

This post should technically be in the stonks thread

Why? These are two heavily subsidized industries that can be used to save diplomatic face between the US and France.

It's politics, not economics.

Next, Congress will look to "update" the Fly America Act.

 

[Brueskie]

I'm about as far from being a supporter of the Biden administration as one can be, but I approve of this deal and I have no problem with the way it was handled. This is less about submarines and more about a geopolitical realignment to counter China. France's attitude towards China has been soft, bordering on appeasement, which disqualifies them from any Indo-Pacific partnership.

 

[ViD]

Has it already been said that it was Russian orchestrated distress in the West ?

 

[Ruprecht]

It’s kinda of hard to say really, not very many countries currently have nuclear subs, and the capability as well as upkeep ranges for a countries preferences and budget. Diesel electric offer different strategic advantages with some big downsides in range vs nuclear. Nuclear is generally seen as better overall because of its advantages in things like speed and fuel.

There are many, many, many, other technologies on subs other then the propulsion aspect like Sonor, radar, photonics masts, etc, etc. in my biased opinion I think US has an edge in most aspects especially from an operator capability point of view.

Hyman Rickover was the father of nuclear powered subs in the US Navy. He basically spear headed the efforts into nuclear powered ships.
I would recommend a book called “Blind mans bluff”

I would think the biggest downside in terms of nuclear powered subs would be the requirement for a nuclear industry that can support it, and if the US is willing to offer life-of-ship powerplants which can circumvent that, I can see why it would bother China. Although India's nuclear submarines were developed in cooperation with Russia and I really can't see Japan deciding to change strategy because of this.