Bellator 260 June 11th Lima vs Amosov

[tehMoose]

I mean, technically true but Usman >> Lima and I love Douglas as a dude and a fighter.

How do we know that? Lima would kill those 4 LWs Usman fought pretty easily as well and those past prime fighters he fought.

Burns dropped him. Imagine if Lima hit him.

Usman can win a boring UD sure, he will never finish Lima. I'm not sure Usman can survive 5 rounds with Lima tho

 

[Hellowhosthat]

How do we know that? Lima would kill those 4 LWs Usman fought pretty easily as well and those past prime fighters he fought.

Burns dropped him. Imagine if Lima hit him.

Usman can win a boring UD sure, he will never finish Lima. I'm not sure Usman can survive 5 rounds with Lima tho

Lima backs up against the cage and doesn't defend double unders, that's absolute suicide against Usman.

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

How do we know that? Lima would kill those 4 LWs Usman fought pretty easily as well and those past prime fighters he fought.

Burns dropped him. Imagine if Lima hit him.

Usman can win a boring UD sure, he will never finish Lima. I'm not sure Usman can survive 5 rounds with Lima tho

He'd have a punchers chance sure but Usman has never been knocked out and he's been facing big punchers his entire UFC run. I suspect it'd go like some combination of the Woodley and first Jorge fights.

 

[tehMoose]

Lima backs up against the cage and doesn't defend double unders, that's absolute suicide against Usman.

Have you seen his last few fights? Yeah he backs up against the cage but what will Usman do there? Foot stomps? LOL

Mousasi who finished plenty of LHWs and HWs couldn't do anything major to him. He said after first round he knew he couldn't finish Lima.

Usman is striking a lot more these days, that's not a good strategy against Lima

 

[Hellowhosthat]

He'd have a punchers chance sure but Usman has never been knocked out and he's been facing big punchers his entire UFC run. I suspect it'd go like some combination of the Woodley and first Jorge fights.

I think it would go exactly like that. I also think the same thing would happen against Colby, although I give Lima a good chance against anyone else (apart from maybe Khamzat if he's as good as I think he is)

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Have you seen his last few fights? Yeah he backs up against the cage but what will Usman do there? Foot stomps? LOL

Mousasi who finished plenty of LHWs and HWs couldn't do anything major to him. He said after first round he knew he couldn't finish Lima.

Usman is striking a lot more these days, that's not a good strategy against Lima

He'd repeatedly take him down over and over again. Lima doesn't have great TDD and Usman is an excellent cage wrestler. I think Lima makes it to the scorecards, but if I had to predict an outcome for that fight, I'd go with 50-45 Usman.

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

He'd repeatedly take him down over and over again. Lima doesn't have great TDD and Usman is an excellent cage wrestler. I think Lima makes it to the scorecards, but if I had to predict an outcome for that fight, I'd go with 50-45 Usman.

IMO he has great TDD but I think you need better then great TDD to stifle Usman. We're talking a dominant P4P guy who's bread and butter is his wrestling/top control.

I think Lima could be UFC champ in a different era, or to be specific he could probably have become champ in the Lawler/Hendricks era but Usman is just too much for him.

 

[tehMoose]

He'd repeatedly take him down over and over again. Lima doesn't have great TDD and Usman is an excellent cage wrestler. I think Lima makes it to the scorecards, but if I had to predict an outcome for that fight, I'd go with 50-45 Usman.

I agree Lima didn't have great TDD in past, but in his recent fights especially against Rory the second time, his TDD was crazy good

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I agree Lima didn't have great TDD in past, but in his recent fights especially against Rory the second time, his TDD was crazy good

Usman is a very different proposition when it comes to taking you down in that position than Rory is. Him and Colby are the best WW's in history at cage wrestling.

 

[careto]

In the past I might think Lima has a 40%-45% chance against Usman but after the Mousasi and Masvidal fights, I think Lima has more of a 10%-15% chance. Lima is my favorite WW but styles makes fights and Usman has a style designed to beat Lima. Colby and Khamzat would be very dangerous for Lima, too but I give Lima a better chance against them. Having said that, I dont think either of them finishes Lima; they would just control him.

 

[Kratos94]

How do we know that? Lima would kill those 4 LWs Usman fought pretty easily as well and those past prime fighters he fought.

Burns dropped him. Imagine if Lima hit him.

Usman can win a boring UD sure, he will never finish Lima. I'm not sure Usman can survive 5 rounds with Lima tho

You are delusional if you think Usman would have to survive against Lima. Usman would KO him clean and do anything with Lima. It really isn't close. Lima is a bad wrestler and a really overrated striker.

 

[Kratos94]

Amosov will be the best fighter he has fought in a while, Amosov would be a top 10 WW. Lima would not be.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

See I would be super excited for this card with all these good fights but it's not for another month because of the lengthy spacing and then I suspect when we get there a lot of big fights will be dropped for medical suspensions and positive covid tests so I'm not waiting with baited breathe, but this is a good card, and I'm very excited for Amosov.

 

[TheBiggestLittleTinyMan]

In the past I might think Lima has a 40%-45% chance against Usman but after the Mousasi and Masvidal fights, I think Lima has more of a 10%-15% chance. Lima is my favorite WW but styles makes fights and Usman has a style designed to beat Lima. Colby and Khamzat would be very dangerous for Lima, too but I give Lima a better chance against them. Having said that, I dont think either of them finishes Lima; they would just control him.

10 - 15%? Come on man, Usman's been impressive but style matters a lot. As far as body of work they're really pretty similar, and tbh Douglas' recent competition has been stronger. I know the latest UFC contender is by definition the most brutal vicious killer assassin we've yet seen, but Moose - Rory - MVP - Koreshkov easily stacks up with Usman's last few and Moose is obviously the most dangerous guy either has fought. Of course Moose won but Douglas took not much damage against a very powerful middleweight who is a strong wrestler and much more dangerous ground and pounder than Usman (as well as being a longer and cleaner boxer), and his counter-wrestling looked very strong after the first round (the fight overall was really not very one sided at all, Moose's biggest advantage was in cage control).

I might very narrowly favour Usman by decision, but Douglas poses a way more novel challenge to Usman than vice versa. Douglas has seen a ton of strong wrestlers and power punchers, Usman hasn't seen anybody with the huge power at range and kicking game of Douglas, and his hooks are also very dangerous. Guys who are used to having a (usually sizeable) length and size advantage like Usman very often struggle when the tables are turned, the one guy recently who he couldn't easily bully with his size and wrestling in Colby gave him a hell of a close fight.

 

[imbossing]

I mean, technically true but Usman >> Lima and I love Douglas as a dude and a fighter.

Dude soko got jacked up by mousasi

 

[kyokugen86]

I hope Mousasi vs. Tokov will be on this card.

 

[kyokugen86]

Bellator 260:

• Champ Douglas Lima vs. Yaroslav Amosov – for welterweight title

• Bobby King vs. Nick Newell
• Tywan Claxton vs. Justin Gonzales
• Lucas Brennan vs. Matt Skibicki
• Amanda Bell vs. Marina Mokhnatkina

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

Dude soko got jacked up by mousasi

Soko got jacked up a bunch of times

 

[careto]

10 - 15%? Come on man, Usman's been impressive but style matters a lot. As far as body of work they're really pretty similar, and tbh Douglas' recent competition has been stronger. I know the latest UFC contender is by definition the most brutal vicious killer assassin we've yet seen, but Moose - Rory - MVP - Koreshkov easily stacks up with Usman's last few and Moose is obviously the most dangerous guy either has fought. Of course Moose won but Douglas took not much damage against a very powerful middleweight who is a strong wrestler and much more dangerous ground and pounder than Usman (as well as being a longer and cleaner boxer), and his counter-wrestling looked very strong after the first round (the fight overall was really not very one sided at all, Moose's biggest advantage was in cage control).

I might very narrowly favour Usman by decision, but Douglas poses a way more novel challenge to Usman than vice versa. Douglas has seen a ton of strong wrestlers and power punchers, Usman hasn't seen anybody with the huge power at range and kicking game of Douglas, and his hooks are also very dangerous. Guys who are used to having a (usually sizeable) length and size advantage like Usman very often struggle when the tables are turned, the one guy recently who he couldn't easily bully with his size and wrestling in Colby gave him a hell of a close fight.

You bring up good points, however, Usman has shown a ton of improvement in his last fights and has been very impressive. I feel like Usman has a very diverse skill set and can catch you with anything these days. His jab against Durinho was masterful and the setting up his wrestling to blast Masvidal like that was just a thing of wonder. Dont get me wrong, Lima is the more exciting fighter and my personal favorite but I feel his path to victory is pretty clear: avoid the take down, leg kick you to death, and knocking his opponents TF out, whereas Usman is pretty unpredictable these days. He can wrestle you for 25 minutes or use his wrestling to set up a striking clinic.

 

[TheBiggestLittleTinyMan]

You bring up good points, however, Usman has shown a ton of improvement in his last fights and has been very impressive. I feel like Usman has a very diverse skill set and can catch you with anything these days. His jab against Durinho was masterful and the setting up his wrestling to blast Masvidal like that was just a thing of wonder. Dont get me wrong, Lima is the more exciting fighter and my personal favorite but I feel his path to victory is pretty clear: avoid the take down, leg kick you to death, and knocking his opponents TF out, whereas Usman is pretty unpredictable these days. He can wrestle you for 25 minutes or use his wrestling to set up a striking clinic.

He's used his power effectively the last few but those were against two styles that were very vulnerable to it. Jorge was very concerned with the takedown and using that to scramble defense and find power punches is pretty standard, his setup for it wasn't some arcane stuff, slap the left hand into the right straight. Good power but it's really a very common and simple setup, contrary to Rogan's claims about never being hurt Jorge has also been known to get a little lazy with his defense and eat hard punches when looking for his shots, he got dropped hard against Chiesa who's not a wizard with his hands (this was also during a phase where Jorge had a much more defensive style). I don't see it materializing against Lima that easily, and even with almost identical positioning it wouldn't have the same effect on Lima just because he'd be so much further away when they're standing at range. Against Burns the counter jab was a good choice against a banger with a high commitment in and out style; Burns was running right into it, but of course we saw this movement gave Usman some trouble early as well. Neither of those tools to me seem like a great choice against Lima, he'll be too far away to punish him with the jab (and it opens up the lead leg badly if he commits to it at range), and the blitzing power punches probably aren't going to land consistently unless he can bully him badly with the wrestling, and we saw how a guy with an amazing blitz in MVP fared. Usman had quite a lot of trouble controlling a guy who has struggled with strong wrestlers even at a lighter weight (he didn't even try to use his wrestling against Burns/Colby). I don't think him easily dominating the wrestling against Lima is a sure thing at all, especially since he'll have to try to enter from much further out than he's accustomed to. The main concern is Usman being able to stall him out in the clinch whenever he needs to, but it was also Jorge who he was able to do that to recently, Lima is another level of size and physicality compared to Masvidal.

That's what I mean by style and especially range being so important, using the ability to effectively take apart shorter stockier guys as a measuring stick on how they deal with tall long power strikers is iffy. Cowboy is one of the best ever at tearing apart shorter guys with his knees and kicking game, but against guys with similar height and length or that could attack from the same range as him he's often looked lost, even an extremely accomplished fighter like Jones suffers from this to an extent. When he was forced to stand at range against Colby, he showed a lot of vulnerability, if Lima can keep him there just for a significant part of the fight then there's a lot of opportunities for him to do damage, he's faced a lot of bangers there that gave him very little trouble.