BEST grappling sport for the modern public safety professional

[KingGuerrilla]

Roger Gracie is a good example of big guy hw style jiu jitsu that would be LEO applicable.

Plenty of trip take downs and heavy crushing mount control.

yeah thats deff the ticket, a low risk takedow plus top control at all costs.

post a video.

 

[KingGuerrilla]

I noticed a suspicious edit in this video and when the video resumes you can see the back of the cops shirt is filthy from being on the ground... looks like the cop lost top control but they edited that out

 

[maximus__]

Well I guess I understand your suspicion if there's a lot of people around here trying to push a pro judo anti BJJ message but I remember getting more out of Judo than BJJ for my public safety requirements because Judo taught me to focus on winning the takedown and BJJ concentrated on bottom newaza

its easier and safer to work newaza for the insurance company and bjj is super pouplar thats why so many cops use it... it's a simple question of availability

its actually difficult to find a judo program unless you're in one of America's largest cities and they're mostly based on IJF criteria so what I'm talking about is pretty rare, Judo as a martial art specifically tailored for the law enforcement professional

and the notion that a cop is going to be trying to score an ippon throw on a suspect is absolutely laughable so it's troll like to bring it up... they're going to concentrate on using lapel and anatomical holds to win the takedown and then keep their suspect pinned to the ground until backup arrives or they comply with the restraint and allow the cop to cuff them

bjj teaches you to pull guard judo teaches you to win the takedown

No i think you are a troll because of your join date and post count. BJJ vs Judo is just stupid. I think we are at the point now where it's just grappling and those names define what type of competition you are competing in at the time.

Pulling guard is just as stupid as going for an ippon throw. So is shooting a traditional double leg with your knee contacting the mat on concrete.

Are you that guy that got banned a while ago talking about how heavyweight athletes need to be trained differently? I actually agree with you in some ways if you are.

I think BJJ is better because it allows you to go past that pin and compliance stage you mention. It teaches you heaps of ways to place the arms in positions to secure someone.

Most of the time it's someone untrained. Your average blue to purple belt should have good enough basic takedowns by then to deal an untrained individual. All you need to think about is that day 1 white belt and how easy it is to do anything you want to them.

 

[Kforcer]

So is shooting a traditional double leg with your knee contacting the mat on concrete.

That's really not a huge deal. I've done it plenty of times when me and friends used to get into impromptu wrestling contests. Sometimes I skinned my knee a little, but obviously, skinning your knee is not such a big deal if you're concerned with someone trying to beat you. I think people who mess up their knee by shooting a double on the concrete could be doing something wrong with their double in the first place.

 

[maximus__]

That's really not a huge deal. I've done it plenty of times when me and friends used to get into impromptu wrestling contests. Sometimes I skinned my knee a little, but obviously, skinning your knee is not such a big deal if you're concerned with someone trying to beat you. I think people who mess up their knee by shooting a double on the concrete could be doing something wrong with their double in the first place.

It's the extra 30-40 pounds of kit. Try shooting that double with a weight vest on and it changes things a bit.

I am Australian so my double is shit haha

 

[Kforcer]

It's the extra 30-40 pounds of kit. Try shooting that double with a weight vest on and it changes things a bit.

I am Australian so my double is shit haha

Fair enough, fair enough. I will add that, the older I get, the less interesting skinning my knees sounds. Actually, it stopped being interesting sometime in my early 20's.

 

[KingGuerrilla]

No i think you are a troll because of your join date and post count. BJJ vs Judo is just stupid. I think we are at the point now where it's just grappling and those names define what type of competition you are competing in at the time.

Pulling guard is just as stupid as going for an ippon throw. So is shooting a traditional double leg with your knee contacting the mat on concrete.

Are you that guy that got banned a while ago talking about how heavyweight athletes need to be trained differently? I actually agree with you in some ways if you are.

I think BJJ is better because it allows you to go past that pin and compliance stage you mention. It teaches you heaps of ways to place the arms in positions to secure someone.

Most of the time it's someone untrained. Your average blue to purple belt should have good enough basic takedowns by then to deal an untrained individual. All you need to think about is that day 1 white belt and how easy it is to do anything you want to them.

Judo taught as a martial art basically encompasses anatomical and Lapel grips with an overall ethos of winning the takedown at all costs and then encompasses every and all aspects of BJJ except the leg locks and has literally perfected hold Downs at an Olympic level

I don't see how anything you're going to learn in a BJJ Club is going to be as good as that especially with the guard pulling bottom boy routine they're always trying to play.

I'm just a mediocre b-level wrestler who helped out at my local high school and I'm treated like Alexander Karelin at the BJJ Club

Old school Gracie Jiu-Jitsu seem to really prioritize winning the takedown but that has been lost on the modern iteration of what you see people like Gordon Ryan doing

I used to remind people that Royce Gracie shot a double like a madman and Only Resort it to guard when he was getting his ass kicked

 

[KingGuerrilla]

That's really not a huge deal. I've done it plenty of times when me and friends used to get into impromptu wrestling contests. Sometimes I skinned my knee a little, but obviously, skinning your knee is not such a big deal if you're concerned with someone trying to beat you. I think people who mess up their knee by shooting a double on the concrete could be doing something wrong with their double in the first place.

You're not really supposed to hit your knee on the ground when you shoot unless you've been forced to by your opponent. There's a couple slides and Dives but in general the harder you hit your knee down the worse your shot is...good point

 

[KingGuerrilla]

It's the extra 30-40 pounds of kit. Try shooting that double with a weight vest on and it changes things a bit.

I am Australian so my double is shit haha

I never figured out why Australian wrestling is so bad, for God's sake you've got Japan and India not that far away and they are some of the greatest wrestling countries on Earth! With Australia's Public school system one would think they'd have Judo wrestling and boxing available for free.

I guess if I lived there all I would do is bodyboard, is that the trouble?

 

[maximus__]

Judo taught as a martial art basically encompasses anatomical and Lapel grips with an overall ethos of winning the takedown at all costs and then encompasses every and all aspects of BJJ except the leg locks and has literally perfected hold Downs at an Olympic level

I don't see how anything you're going to learn in a BJJ Club is going to be as good as that especially with the guard pulling bottom boy routine they're always trying to play.

I'm just a mediocre b-level wrestler who helped out at my local high school and I'm treated like Alexander Karelin at the BJJ Club

Old school Gracie Jiu-Jitsu seem to really prioritize winning the takedown but that has been lost on the modern iteration of what you see people like Gordon Ryan doing

I used to remind people that Royce Gracie shot a double like a madman and Only Resort it to guard when he was getting his ass kicked

My argument to that would be that the ruleset encourages aggressive turtling as opposed to sweeps to get back on top. The ground game of most decent judo players is much weaker in comparison just due to the nature of the focus in training. As i said earlier they might hit that takedown but you just placed yourself in the position of the superior grappler. The pins are fine but nothing worse than a good BJJ player can also do. I definitely agree a good level of takedown is needed though.

You mentioned earlier you are 300 pounds. You are almost 2 of me as I weigh about 170. I would probably not engage in takedowns with you either unless I knew you well and that I could trust you to take me down safely. That may be why people don't generally play on the feet with you. I think you would find a 300 pound wrestler or BJJ person might be more willing, but there are not many of them out there. If you were my size I guarantee you would have a similar experience as I have that people will wrestle just as much as pull guard.

No argument that the takedown is very important in grappling. I don't pull guard unless I am massively outweighed or working on seated guard. I prefer body locks, singles and generally chasing the back to land an easy takedown that is gentle for everyone involved.

 

[maximus__]

I never figured out why Australian wrestling is so bad, for God's sake you've got Japan and India not that far away and they are some of the greatest wrestling countries on Earth! With Australia's Public school system one would think they'd have Judo wrestling and boxing available for free.

I guess if I lived there all I would do is bodyboard, is that the trouble?

There is more money in Australian Football or AFL. Certain states play our brand of Rugby also. People of all sizes can be successful in these sports.There isn't much money in wrestling and most of our best are imports from better wrestling countries.

 

[KingGuerrilla]

There is more money in Australian Football or AFL. Certain states play our brand of Rugby also. People of all sizes can be successful in these sports.There isn't much money in wrestling and most of our best are imports from better wrestling countries.

what school sports are available in Australian public systems?

 

[KingGuerrilla]

My argument to that would be that the ruleset encourages aggressive turtling as opposed to sweeps to get back on top. The ground game of most decent judo players is much weaker in comparison just due to the nature of the focus in training. As i said earlier they might hit that takedown but you just placed yourself in the position of the superior grappler. The pins are fine but nothing worse than a good BJJ player can also do. I definitely agree a good level of takedown is needed though.

You mentioned earlier you are 300 pounds. You are almost 2 of me as I weigh about 170. I would probably not engage in takedowns with you either unless I knew you well and that I could trust you to take me down safely. That may be why people don't generally play on the feet with you. I think you would find a 300 pound wrestler or BJJ person might be more willing, but there are not many of them out there. If you were my size I guarantee you would have a similar experience as I have that people will wrestle just as much as pull guard.

No argument that the takedown is very important in grappling. I don't pull guard unless I am massively outweighed or working on seated guard. I prefer body locks, singles and generally chasing the back to land an easy takedown that is gentle for everyone involved.

Good takedowns are critical and the ground game is easier to learn, I'd love Brazilian jiu-jitsu if it had more emphasis on the takedown but it dosent

I find a 180-220-pounder much more difficult to deal with then the heavyweights because they are fast enough to move yet strong enough to affect their holds.

big guys are easy to hold down it's the smaller one ones that can twist away and gain position wearing you down

 

[maximus__]

what school sports are available in Australian public systems?

AFL, Rugby, Cricket and Soccer would be the main ones. They actually use BJJ and grappling techniques in the AFl and NRL these days.
AFL

NRL

Cricket

Soccer you should know well enough.

 

[Mavrilicious]

You're not really supposed to hit your knee on the ground when you shoot unless you've been forced to by your opponent. There's a couple slides and Dives but in general the harder you hit your knee down the worse your shot is...good point

I'm not surr where this knee touching the ground idea came from. Maybe from teaching the basic fundamental shot but I'm with you. It slows down your shot

 

[rmongler]

I'm not surr where this knee touching the ground idea came from. Maybe from teaching the basic fundamental shot but I'm with you. It slows down your shot

It's basically a braindead way to get 8 year olds to change levels rather than bend over.

This matters if you want to put junior varsity county champion trophies on your coaching resume, but less so if your want is to prepare those kids for athletic success later in life.

 

[KingGuerrilla]

It's basically a braindead way to get 8 year olds to change levels rather than bend over.

This matters if you want to put junior varsity county champion trophies on your coaching resume, but less so if your want is to prepare those kids for athletic success later in life.

There's probably a hundred different variations of the penetration step and it does seem to be unique to wrestling



Was kind of sad that wrestling could never settle on universal terminology though so I refer to the double in many different ways

theys-a:

snatch double
diving double
shot double
double off single knee down
double off both knees down
brasager (far knee block) thats a type of double
head inside double
head outside double
head down double (that one hurts)

 

[Matsukaze]

I believe it was Renzo that said he started teaching / training the double leg differently when he hurt his knee shooting a double on the street

 

[jack36767]

When the hell will people who’ve been around grappling a long time realize that there is the “normal” local yokel type of technique taught and a wide array of technique and movements that aren’t taught or known to average hs coach.

I keep seeing people who should know better ignore the fact that what is taught at most high schools is not what is taught, or only one part of by the high tier/elite coaches

 

[KingGuerrilla]

When the hell will people who’ve been around grappling a long time realize that there is the “normal” local yokel type of technique taught and a wide array of technique and movements that aren’t taught or known to average hs coach.

I keep seeing people who should know better ignore the fact that what is taught at most high schools is not what is taught, or only one part of by the high tier/elite coaches

Most high school wrestling coaches are simply an interested dad trying to help out the kids. My high school wrestling coach was a complete moron who didn't know anything about grappling and taught out of a book, he literally never stepped onto the mat.