Elections Biden Surges to 14-Point Lead Over Trump After First Debate

Can Trump come back this big, this late in the campaign?


  • Total voters
    450
sorry criminal “referral”



https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...s-criminal-referral-to-doj-alleging-thousands

“A Justice Department official, who spoke to the Post on the condition of anonymity to discuss a move that could lead to an investigation, confirmed that the department had received the referral and that officials were "looking into it."

{<shrug}


How are you going to cope when nothing comes of this and Biden is still president? Are you going to claim election fraud no matter what the outcome is?
 
How are you going to cope when nothing comes of this and Biden is still president? Are you going to claim election fraud no matter what the outcome is?
He's incapable of admitting he was wrong lol
 
I just voted 'yes'

Timely? No. Controversial? Not really. Fun? eh, not as fun as I had hoped.

I believe in Donaljay Turmp. Make courts great again. Steal China!
 
You are claiming something happened

im claiming that they are claiming something happened and are going to court over it.

4cd.gif
 
Crow Eating Post

Although I am immensely relieved at Joe Biden winning the Presidency, I am here to admit that the polls flat sucked. No other way to put it.

I defended polling after 2016... and I generally DO believe it got a bad rap. Polling in 2016, besides in a few key states, was not bad. Polling in 2018 was pretty good. I was confident that 2020 polling would be even better. I was very wrong.

The final RCP average had Biden up by 7.2 points. He won by 3.1. This is a big, fat miss. What made it even worse, though, was the state level misses were absolutely inexcusable. How did Susan Collins not lead in a single poll all election cycle and end up with a 10 point win in Maine? I get that there may be "shy Trump voters" (a phenomenon that I had dismissed, but now will have to take very seriously)... but there are "shy Susan Collins voters"? Really? And the FINAL kick in the nuts was that the polls were all off in the same direction. In 2016, Hillary actually outperformed her polls in some places, such as Arizona and Texas. In 2020, polls underestimated Trump support pretty much across the board.

My Grades:

The Polls: D

After all the bad things I said about the polls, I can't give them an F. Why? Although they were OFF BIG in terms of how close the race was going to be, they actually told the correct narrative; Joe Biden was likely to win the Presidency by taking back the industrial Midwest. This is exactly what happened. Further, they told us that he had expanded the map and was playing offense in some Trump states. Polls said he had a shot at flipping North Carolina, Arizona, Georgia, Texas, and Florida. This was true in three out of those five places. So, a very bad day for the polls, but not quite an unmitigated disaster.

Nate Silver/ fivethirtyeight: C-

Nate Silver's model is only as good as the information that gets fed into it. That being said, just like the polls, he told the right story overall. He said that Biden was ahead of Hillary's pace and that there would have to be an even greater polling error than 2016 in order for Trump to have a shot, but he would still be an underdog. It turns out that there was an even greater polling error than 2016, and Trump did have a shot, but he was still and underdog and lost.

Further, there is some posthumous vindication for Silver's 2016 call. Silver gave Trump approximately a 30% chance of winning in 2016. Biden ended up outperforming Hillary by just one point in the popular vote. That one point, however, Translated into winning FIVE more states. In other words, it shows just how statistically unlikely Trump's win in 2016 was.

My beef with Nate Silver is that he is going to really have to rethink how he grades and weights pollsters. Many of the pollsters that he gave an A grade to for their methods had the worst misses. Other pollsters who he did not include because he deemed their methods unscientific (Trafalgar) were actually more accurate than the "highly scientific" gold standard pollsters. What does this say about the state of polling in 2020? Well, I have several theories, but this post is already too long, so I will save them and just say, in a word: it's a mess.


In conclusion, there is an old question that comes up every once in a while in the WR: have you ever changed your mind on anything related to politics due to new information? I can say, yes. 2020 changed the confidence I will have in polls drastically. 2016 really didn't... and I don't think it should have. But 2020 is a different story.

All that being said, I still think I like this election better than @Starman

bork1}bork1}bork1}bork1}
 
Last edited:
I won’t be able to do it because of these bogus yellows, but please make a thread called “Oof! Polls wrong again! Trump wins re-election!” or something similar, and tag the idiot who made this thread along with all the other obnoxious leftists who have insisted on embarrassing themselves here.
Spot on!
 
Crow Eating Post

Although I am immensely relieved at Joe Biden winning the Presidency, I am here to admit that the polls flat sucked. No other way to put it.

I defended polling after 2016... and I generally DO believe it got a bad rap. Polling in 2016, besides in a few key states, was not bad. Polling in 2018 was pretty good. I was confident that 2020 polling would be even better. I was very wrong.

The final RCP average had Biden up by 7.2 points. He won by 3.1. This is a big, fat miss. What made it even worse, though, was the state level misses were absolutely inexcusable. How did Susan Collins not lead in a single poll all election cycle and end up with a 10 point win in Maine? I get that there may be "shy Trump voters" (a phenomenon that I had dismissed, but now will have to take very seriously)... but there are "shy Susan Collins voters"? Really? And the FINAL kick in the nuts was that the polls were all off in the same direction. In 2016, Hillary actually outperformed her polls in some places, such as Arizona and Texas. In 2020, polls underestimated Trump support pretty much across the board.

My Grades:

The Polls: D

After all the bad things I said about the polls, I can't give them an F. Why? Although they were OFF BIG in terms of how close the race was going to be, they actually told the correct narrative; Joe Biden was likely to win the Presidency by taking back the industrial Midwest. This is exactly what happened. Further, they told us that he had expanded the map and was playing offense in some Trump states. Polls said he had a shot at flipping North Carolina, Arizona, Georgia, Texas, and Florida. This was true in three out of those five places. So, a very bad day for the polls, but not quite an unmitigated disaster.

Nate Silver/ fivethirtyeight: C-

Nate Silver's model is only as good as the information that gets fed into it. That being said, just like the polls, he told the right story overall. He said that Biden was ahead of Hillary's pace and that there would have to be an even greater polling error than 2016 in order for Trump to have a shot, but he would still be an underdog. It turns out that there was an even greater polling error than 2016, and Trump did have a shot, but he was still and underdog and lost.

Further, there is some posthumous vindication for Silver's 2016 call. Silver gave Trump approximately a 30% chance of winning in 2016. Biden ended up outperforming Hillary by just one point in the popular vote. That one point, however, Translated into winning FIVE more states. In other words, it shows just how statistically unlikely Trump's win in 2016 was.

My beef with Nate Silver is that he is going to really have to rethink how he grades and weights pollsters. Many of the pollsters that he gave an A grade to for their methods had the worst misses. Other pollsters who he did not include because he deemed their methods unscientific (Trafalgar) were actually more accurate than the "highly scientific" gold standard pollsters. What does this say about the state of polling in 2020? Well, I have several theories, but this post is already too long, so I will save them and just say, in a word: it's a mess.


In conclusion, there is an old question that comes up every once in a while in the WR: have you ever changed your mind on anything related to politics due to new information? I can say, yes. 2020 changed the confidence I will have in polls drastically. 2016 really didn't... and I don't think it should have. But 2020 is a different story.

All that being said, I still think I like this election better than @Starman

bork1}bork1}bork1}bork1}
props to you for figuring these simple numbers out. the fact that trump got nearly 70 million votes, blew these polls out the water. he exceeded his own numbers in 2016 by 10% and still lost..... that's a big improvement, but the electoral college dont work that way.
 
Crow Eating Post

Although I am immensely relieved at Joe Biden winning the Presidency, I am here to admit that the polls flat sucked. No other way to put it.

I defended polling after 2016... and I generally DO believe it got a bad rap. Polling in 2016, besides in a few key states, was not bad. Polling in 2018 was pretty good. I was confident that 2020 polling would be even better. I was very wrong.

The final RCP average had Biden up by 7.2 points. He won by 3.1. This is a big, fat miss. What made it even worse, though, was the state level misses were absolutely inexcusable. How did Susan Collins not lead in a single poll all election cycle and end up with a 10 point win in Maine? I get that there may be "shy Trump voters" (a phenomenon that I had dismissed, but now will have to take very seriously)... but there are "shy Susan Collins voters"? Really? And the FINAL kick in the nuts was that the polls were all off in the same direction. In 2016, Hillary actually outperformed her polls in some places, such as Arizona and Texas. In 2020, polls underestimated Trump support pretty much across the board.

My Grades:

The Polls: D

After all the bad things I said about the polls, I can't give them an F. Why? Although they were OFF BIG in terms of how close the race was going to be, they actually told the correct narrative; Joe Biden was likely to win the Presidency by taking back the industrial Midwest. This is exactly what happened. Further, they told us that he had expanded the map and was playing offense in some Trump states. Polls said he had a shot at flipping North Carolina, Arizona, Georgia, Texas, and Florida. This was true in three out of those five places. So, a very bad day for the polls, but not quite an unmitigated disaster.

Nate Silver/ fivethirtyeight: C-

Nate Silver's model is only as good as the information that gets fed into it. That being said, just like the polls, he told the right story overall. He said that Biden was ahead of Hillary's pace and that there would have to be an even greater polling error than 2016 in order for Trump to have a shot, but he would still be an underdog. It turns out that there was an even greater polling error than 2016, and Trump did have a shot, but he was still and underdog and lost.

Further, there is some posthumous vindication for Silver's 2016 call. Silver gave Trump approximately a 30% chance of winning in 2016. Biden ended up outperforming Hillary by just one point in the popular vote. That one point, however, Translated into winning FIVE more states. In other words, it shows just how statistically unlikely Trump's win in 2016 was.

My beef with Nate Silver is that he is going to really have to rethink how he grades and weights pollsters. Many of the pollsters that he gave an A grade to for their methods had the worst misses. Other pollsters who he did not include because he deemed their methods unscientific (Trafalgar) were actually more accurate than the "highly scientific" gold standard pollsters. What does this say about the state of polling in 2020? Well, I have several theories, but this post is already too long, so I will save them and just say, in a word: it's a mess.


In conclusion, there is an old question that comes up every once in a while in the WR: have you ever changed your mind on anything related to politics due to new information? I can say, yes. 2020 changed the confidence I will have in polls drastically. 2016 really didn't... and I don't think it should have. But 2020 is a different story.

All that being said, I still think I like this election better than @Starman

bork1}bork1}bork1}bork1}
This was Trafalgar's final electoral map:
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Rasmussen had Biden winning Florida and Trump winning Arizona. Also, they had Trump at 47% approval rating in Sept.

I'm not saying that these polls shouldn't be included in a model, but they weren't really all that more accurate at the end of the day.
 
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