Boxing vs. MMA the double standards and the benefits to how boxing is run

[jeff7b9]

I love both sports. The boxing vs MMA thing is retarded. plenty of room at the table for everyone, and kickboxing and submission grappling.

Barring rare exception, which usually consists of one guy being SO far out of his prime that he shouldn’t have been granted a license, the boxer wins in boxing and mma wins mma. It isn’t rocket science, they train for a rule set and will be better at what they are prepared for.

The problem is that the world has realized “hey, we can make a quick buck if we just throw all respect for the sport out the window and just book whoever has the most Instagram follower/whatever fights will generate the most twitter arguments.“

 

[Jonny Ninja]

In general you see far more competitive, and better fights in MMA imo

The ufc has the majority of the best fighters, and the best in the other organisations aspire to get there. That makes the match making far easier in MMA. The top guys actually have to fckin fight each other (in most cases) to get a shot at the title.
That just doesn’t happen in boxing. Add to that fights that should happen, often don’t, or are made way too late (Manny/floy as an example). As a boxing fan it pisses me off tbh

 

[Iceferg]

In general you see far more competitive, and better fights in MMA imo

The ufc has the majority of the best fighters, and the best in the other organisations aspire to get there. That makes the match making far easier in MMA. The top guys actually have to fckin fight each other (in most cases) to get a shot at the title.
That just doesn’t happen in boxing. Add to that fights that should happen, often don’t, or are made way too late (Manny/floy as an example). As a boxing fan it pisses me off tbh

Get what you're saying but Fedor never fought in UFC. Khabib vs. GSP isn't happening.

I think UFC doesn't sign up some good talent because they don't fit in with the organisation, might be their personality, style etc

I would say about 30+% of the top fighters in each division on average are operating outside the UFC at any given time and out those that are it will be a lengthy contractual dispute to get in so we miss a lot of prime MMA fights because of that system too.

Just like loads of casuals lap up everything Eddie Hearn says in boxing same in MMA.

 

[DoctorDeelon]

Boxing vs. MMA I'm a huge fan of both more so boxing admittedly but I think the way MMA fans are trolling at the moment is silly. I think MMA is the sport that might be stagnating let me explain.

1) Canelo vs. Yildrim - Canelo is fighting Yildrim, who's a gatekeeper. MMA fans are mocking but who did Khabib win the title against Al IaQuinta same thing.

2) UFC have 2 champions in a lot of weight classes with interim title now but UFC isn't the only MMA champion there are other organisations too. So there are multiple MMA champions most organisations don't let them leave whilst they're champion and they never unify.

3) Yeah Paul brothers are making bank boxing. CM Punk fought in the UFC. Aaron Chalmers fought in Bellator. How is this a talking or laughing point. The biggest MMA star ever got his biggest purse in a boxing match.

I'm a big fan of Canelo but there's no defending this fight. Iaquinta was a last minute stand-in, they set this Yildrim fight up in advance.

As boxing fans, we have to ask ourselves how a guy coming off a loss gets to be a mandatory challenger (aka a #1 contender) for a world title. It's ridiculous.

He could have fought a guy like Andrade - who hasn't proven himself on the top level but is a promising undefeated fighter. At least that would have been defendable. But this is just a gross mismatch that has no place in boxing. There's no defense for it.

 

[Iceferg]

I'm a big fan of Canelo but there's no defending this fight. Iaquinta was a last minute stand-in, they set this Yildrim fight up in advance.

As boxing fans, we have to ask ourselves how a guy coming off a loss gets to be a mandatory challenger (aka a #1 contender) for a world title. It's ridiculous.

He could have fought a guy like Andrade - who hasn't proven himself on the top level but is a promising undefeated fighter. At least that would have been defendable. But this is just a gross mismatch that has no place in boxing. There's no defense for it.

He's in this position because promoters bribe sanctioning bodies. The FBI caught this on footage once.

End of though, this is a stay busy fight. Smith and Saunders in the space of 6 months I can't complain. This is just the cherry on top.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Benavidez is WBC number 1 mate. The rankings are bent anyway usually controlled by promoters. Benavidez vs. Canelo is actually a very good fight in my opinion.

Which rankings, the sanctioning bodies' or the independent rankings? Like I said before boxing doesn't have centralized rankings so there's no single central authority. Instead it has multiple independent rankings that are decentralized. The advantage to this type of infrastructure is that a shady powerful promoter, manager, or network exec can't simply go to one source (or rankings site) and influence all the rest. A total compromise becomes far less feasible as they'd all have to be in collusion. There's no single point of compromise in the current ecosystem because they're organizationally separate and independently run entities. Generally any rankings manipulation that could potentially occur would inherently be limited in scope if not entirely isolated to a single org/entity.

Historically there have been major incidents, mostly related to the sanctioning bodies' rankings (WBA/WBC/IBF/WBO), but they're still organization-specific. There's been corruption and conflicts of interest but it's really not surprising given how long they've been around (WBA & WBC in particular). Nowadays there's more transparency and accountability than in the past. If a popular site's rankings or sanctioning body's rankings aren't sensible to you, or anything appears to be suspicious, then you can check their work. They all publish transparency reports detailing the changes made and explanations are usually provided. Rankings movement can easily be tracked and scrutinized and peculiarities that are discovered can be reviewed by the general public. Don't like a particular sanctioning body's ranking? The fighter or his team can formally appeal it. If the org appears to have violated their own policy then there are potential legal ramifications to help keep them in check along with public pressure/negative PR.

As for the independent rankings, the most popular ones in use today are BoxRec's, The Ring's, TBRB's and ESPN's. BoxRec's are computerized, it has several quirks, but they're objective. Manipulating BoxRec's would only be possible by them making undisclosed changes to their algorithm or opting out of its use without informing the public. And, since they've previously published their ranking algorithm to provide verifiability, it would allow any such changes to be detected. You can literally take their published data (rankings) and run it through the algorithm yourself to verify their rankings' integrity. If any discrepancies exist you'd be able to spot them. The TBRB's rankings are subjective but they're a much more reputable alternative to The Ring's. The org was specifically formed to address the matter of trusted/uncompromised rankings.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

See you say IaQuinta was fringe top 10 by that you mean in the UFC. Probably 2 or 3 guys in Bellator that can beat and another 1 or 2 elsewhere. So you're backing my point up that he's on the same level as Yildirim I don't get the hate though not like boxing fans were doing this about Khabib vs. IaQuinta.

As for how MMA is run MMA needed a company like UFC to get it off the ground. I don't want to see that happen in boxing. There's a few promoters trying to do it now. Al Haymon has tried it and Eddie Hearn has been talking about it. Can't see anyone succeeding. Boxing is already established might have a few problems with how it's run now and then but I don't want to see all the power fall in one person's hands.

No. Iaquinta was fringe Top 10 across the sport not just in the UFC. Sherdog only ranks the Top 10 contenders per division but they had Iaquinta listed under their noteworthy contenders below the Top 10 at the time he fought Khabib. Fight Matrix had Iaquinta ranked #13, which is still fringe Top 10 / inside the Top 15. I've seen Iaquinta ranked anywhere from #11 to #13 depending on the source used for rankings.

Yildirim isn't ranked higher in his respective sport than Iaquinta was in his at the time he fought Khabib. I'm not talking about a sanctioning body ranking but comparing their actual world rankings. If you asked a boxing hardcore to list their current Top 10/15 Super Middleweights Yildirim wouldn't be one of them. If you'd asked an MMA hardcore to list their Top 10/15 Lightweights at the time Iaquinta fought Khabib, in April 2018, they'd all list him.

 

[Iceferg]

No. Iaquinta was fringe Top 10 across the sport not just in the UFC. Sherdog only ranks the Top 10 contenders per division but they had Iaquinta listed under their noteworthy contenders below the Top 10 at the time he fought Khabib. Fight Matrix had Iaquinta ranked #13, which is still fringe Top 10 / inside the Top 15. I've seen Iaquinta ranked anywhere from #11 to #13 depending on the source used for rankings.

Yildirim isn't ranked higher in his respective sport than Iaquinta was in his at the time he fought Khabib. I'm not talking about a sanctioning body ranking but comparing their actual world rankings. If you asked a boxing hardcore to list their current Top 10/15 Super Middleweights Yildirim wouldn't be one of them. If you'd asked an MMA hardcore to list their Top 10/15 Lightweights at the time Iaquinta fought Khabib, in April 2018, they'd all list him.

I never said he was ranked higher I said it's roughly the equivalent. Yildirim is roughly about top 15 plus it's just a tune up fight.

 

[Iceferg]

Which rankings, the sanctioning bodies' or the independent rankings? Like I said before boxing doesn't have centralized rankings so there's no single central authority. Instead it has multiple independent rankings that are decentralized. The advantage to this type of infrastructure is that a shady powerful promoter, manager, or network exec can't simply go to one source (or rankings site) and influence all the rest. A total compromise becomes far less feasible as they'd all have to be in collusion. There's no single point of compromise in the current ecosystem because they're organizationally separate and independently run entities. Generally any rankings manipulation that could potentially occur would inherently be limited in scope if not entirely isolated to a single org/entity.

Historically there have been major incidents, mostly related to the sanctioning bodies' rankings (WBA/WBC/IBF/WBO), but they're still organization-specific. There's been corruption and conflicts of interest but it's really not surprising given how long they've been around (WBA & WBC in particular). Nowadays there's more transparency and accountability than in the past. If a popular site's rankings or sanctioning body's rankings aren't sensible to you, or anything appears to be suspicious, then you can check their work. They all publish transparency reports detailing the changes made and explanations are usually provided. Rankings movement can easily be tracked and scrutinized and peculiarities that are discovered can be reviewed by the general public. Don't like a particular sanctioning body's ranking? The fighter or his team can formally appeal it. If the org appears to have violated their own policy then there are potential legal ramifications to help keep them in check along with public pressure/negative PR.

As for the independent rankings, the most popular ones in use today are BoxRec's, The Ring's, TBRB's and ESPN's. BoxRec's are computerized, it has several quirks, but they're objective. Manipulating BoxRec's would only be possible by them making undisclosed changes to their algorithm or opting out of its use without informing the public. And, since they've previously published their ranking algorithm to provide verifiability, it would allow any such changes to be detected. You can literally take their published data (rankings) and run it through the algorithm yourself to verify their rankings' integrity. If any discrepancies exist you'd be able to spot them. The TBRB's rankings are subjective but they're a much more reputable alternative to The Ring's. The org was specifically formed to address the matter of trusted/uncompromised rankings.

All the sanctioning bodies are bent. Oscar De La Hoya owns Ring magazine and is a major promoter too.

Personally I like the decentralised system in boxing. Say in MMA what happens when Dana leaves the UFC if some clueless idiot takes over.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Get what you're saying but Fedor never fought in UFC. Khabib vs. GSP isn't happening.

I think UFC doesn't sign up some good talent because they don't fit in with the organisation, might be their personality, style etc

I would say about 30+% of the top fighters in each division on average are operating outside the UFC at any given time and out those that are it will be a lengthy contractual dispute to get in so we miss a lot of prime MMA fights because of that system too.

Just like loads of casuals lap up everything Eddie Hearn says in boxing same in MMA.

i don’t think they are great examples dude. Gsp has pretty much been retired for years, and now so is khabib. And in boxing terms they are over 2 weight classes apart

When fedor was in his heyday, the ufc wasn’t even the premier MMA organisation. Now it is, and as per my previous post, the best fighters that aren’t in the ufc, aspire to be. And is fans naturally question why talented fighters like Michael page, chose to beat up cans in the 2nd division. The reality is he’s not interested in being the best. That’s unusual for a fighter, in a sport where a loss is just a loss, which is why so many gravitate to the ufc
Another big part of boxing’s problem is how damaging a single loss can be! Fighters and promoters are scared to take any risks, at our detriment

Fedor chose not to fight in the ufc (for whatever reason, it may have been completely justified), but he still fought a whose who of HW fighters. Now look at wilder, who was champion for about 10 fights and hand picked everyone of them apart from a couple of laughable mandatories. That is my issue right there. As a ufc champion (unless you’re McGregor), you have to earn the right to fight the champion, by knocking other top guys off. And then when your champion you don’t get to pick and choose. In the current HW division in boxing, guys like dillian Whyte, Anthony Joshua and povetkin are the exception to the rule. Most in the top 10 beat up on guys much lower in the rankings, wait it out and take a safe path till they get their title shot. Fights like Dubois vs Joyce/hrgovic vs Hunter should he the norm, not the exception

the sad thing is I love boxing, even more than football. I probably watch more MMA at the moment purely down to better, or generally more competitive fights

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Boxing vs. MMA I'm a huge fan of both more so boxing admittedly but I think the way MMA fans are trolling at the moment is silly. I think MMA is the sport that might be stagnating let me explain.

1) Canelo vs. Yildrim - Canelo is fighting Yildrim, who's a gatekeeper. MMA fans are mocking but who did Khabib win the title against Al IaQuinta same thing.

2) UFC have 2 champions in a lot of weight classes with interim title now but UFC isn't the only MMA champion there are other organisations too. So there are multiple MMA champions most organisations don't let them leave whilst they're champion and they never unify.

3) Yeah Paul brothers are making bank boxing. CM Punk fought in the UFC. Aaron Chalmers fought in Bellator. How is this a talking or laughing point. The biggest MMA star ever got his biggest purse in a boxing match.

I think the biggest thing is that in MMA the promoters are their own sanctioning body. That makes for more competitive fights being made but it's at the expense of the fighters. It limits the fighter's options in selecting an opponent and the organization also keeps most of the money.

 

[Iceferg]

i don’t think they are great examples dude. Gsp has pretty much been retired for years, and now so is khabib. And in boxing terms they are over 2 weight classes apart

When fedor was in his heyday, the ufc wasn’t even the premier MMA organisation. Now it is, and as per my previous post, the best fighters that aren’t in the ufc, aspire to be. And is fans naturally question why talented fighters like Michael page, chose to beat up cans in the 2nd division. The reality is he’s not interested in being the best. That’s unusual for a fighter, in a sport where a loss is just a loss, which is why so many gravitate to the ufc
Another big part of boxing’s problem is how damaging a single loss can be! Fighters and promoters are scared to take any risks, at our detriment

Fedor chose not to fight in the ufc (for whatever reason, it may have been completely justified), but he still fought a whose who of HW fighters. Now look at wilder, who was champion for about 10 fights and hand picked everyone of them apart from a couple of laughable mandatories. That is my issue right there. As a ufc champion (unless you’re McGregor), you have to earn the right to fight the champion, by knocking other top guys off. And then when your champion you don’t get to pick and choose. In the current HW division in boxing, guys like dillian Whyte, Anthony Joshua and povetkin are the exception to the rule. Most in the top 10 beat up on guys much lower in the rankings, wait it out and take a safe path till they get their title shot. Fights like Dubois vs Joyce/hrgovic vs Hunter should he the norm, not the exception

the sad thing is I love boxing, even more than football. I probably watch more MMA at the moment purely down to better, or generally more competitive fights

Good points but Lima is good. MVP is decent. Few fights I would like to see cross promotion that we won't. Askren spent a long time out UFC his best years coz Dana didn't like him.

Yeah personally MMA is going alright I think Dana White is doing a good job but when he goes it could be in a lot of trouble.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I never said he was ranked higher I said it's roughly the equivalent. Yildirim is roughly about top 15 plus it's just a tune up fight.

I wouldn't have Yildirim near my Top 15 and I don't know anybody else besides you who would. He lost his last fight (though it was a technical decision) and hasn't fought in two years. Both times he stepped up in his career he lost. He hasn't accomplished anything noteworthy at all at the world level.

All the sanctioning bodies are bent. Oscar De La Hoya owns Ring magazine and is a major promoter too.

Personally I like the decentralised system in boxing. Say in MMA what happens when Dana leaves the UFC if some clueless idiot takes over.

The sanctioning bodies are in bed with the promoters in general but if they decide to manipulate their own rankings they'll have plenty of people questioning their moves. It'll be spotted by the public as usual. The fans mostly use the independent rankings while the fighters themselves are often the ones who use the sanctioning bodies' rankings if they're ranked in any of the Big 4 organizations.

As for Oscar owning Ring Magazine, all the hardcores in this forum know this. He bought it in 2006/2007. Some questionable decisions were made in 2012 which prompted the TBRB to form. The people in charge of the website (Ring TV) and Ring Magazine now won't tolerate any influence from Oscar or they'll leave. Doug Fischer is the editor-in-chief, I know him personally, and he told Oscar that to his face a few years ago before he was promoted. He runs the show over there now. I know all the staff at The Ring and at this time the rankings are fine, there's nothing suspicious about them. If you're still skeptical then just take them with a grain of salt when it comes to Golden Boy fighters in the rankings and that's all you have to do. Or, again, use the TBRB's rankings instead. I use both.

 

[Iceferg]

I wouldn't have Yildirim near my Top 15 and I don't know anybody else besides you who would. He lost his last fight (though it was a technical decision) and hasn't fought in two years. Both times he stepped up in his career he lost. He hasn't accomplished anything noteworthy at all at the world level.

The sanctioning bodies are in bed with the promoters in general but if they decide to manipulate their own rankings they'll have plenty of people questioning their moves. It'll be spotted by the public as usual. The fans mostly use the independent rankings while the fighters themselves are often the ones who use the sanctioning bodies' rankings if they're ranked in any of the Big 4 organizations.

As for Oscar owning Ring Magazine, all the hardcores in this forum know this. He bought it in 2006/2007. Some questionable decisions were made in 2012 which prompted the TBRB to form. The people in charge of the website (Ring TV) and Ring Magazine now won't tolerate any influence from Oscar or they'll leave. Doug Fischer is the editor-in-chief, I know him personally, and he told Oscar that to his face a few years ago before he was promoted. He runs the show over there now. I know all the staff at The Ring and at this time the rankings are fine, there's nothing suspicious about them. If you're still skeptical then just take them with a grain of salt when it comes to Golden Boy fighters in the rankings and that's all you have to do. Or, again, use the TBRB's rankings instead. I use both.

Well like I said he's beat Periban, Edwards, Mock who are all half decent. Edwards beat Badou Jack, Periban drew against Bika in a world title fight. Mock is ancient but had been on a good run for years.

He had only lost twice prior to this fight both to world class opposition. Yes he's not won since 2018 but all you MMA fans are being very selective with that remember there has been a situation going on which has made it hard to make fights.

Leon Edwards hasn't fought since 2019. End of the day Yildirim is definitely on roughly the same level IaQuinta but most MMA are hypocritical about boxing.

Look at everything I said in video I got it all right.

 

[podsox]

khabib was suppose to fight tony. the al fight was on 2 days notice

 

[jeff7b9]

Get what you're saying but Fedor never fought in UFC. Khabib vs. GSP isn't happening.

I think UFC doesn't sign up some good talent because they don't fit in with the organisation, might be their personality, style etc

I would say about 30+% of the top fighters in each division on average are operating outside the UFC at any given time and out those that are it will be a lengthy contractual dispute to get in so we miss a lot of prime MMA fights because of that system too.

Just like loads of casuals lap up everything Eddie Hearn says in boxing same in MMA.

Khabib vs GSP is not a great fight that got away or was kept from the fans.

1- they are in different weight classes.

2- GSP is LONG RETIRED. He has 1 fight in the last 7-8 years.

3- GSP’s Prime was 8-10 years ago.

 

[intrepid brawler]

Boxing vs. MMA I'm a huge fan of both more so boxing admittedly but I think the way MMA fans are trolling at the moment is silly. I think MMA is the sport that might be stagnating let me explain.

1) Canelo vs. Yildrim - Canelo is fighting Yildrim, who's a gatekeeper. MMA fans are mocking but who did Khabib win the title against Al IaQuinta same thing.

2) UFC have 2 champions in a lot of weight classes with interim title now but UFC isn't the only MMA champion there are other organisations too. So there are multiple MMA champions most organisations don't let them leave whilst they're champion and they never unify.

3) Yeah Paul brothers are making bank boxing. CM Punk fought in the UFC. Aaron Chalmers fought in Bellator. How is this a talking or laughing point. The biggest MMA star ever got his biggest purse in a boxing match.

your whole outlook is even-handed, objective and logical... goes against everything people are about.

 

[Cariñito]

No. Iaquinta was fringe Top 10 across the sport not just in the UFC. Sherdog only ranks the Top 10 contenders per division but they had Iaquinta listed under their noteworthy contenders below the Top 10 at the time he fought Khabib. Fight Matrix had Iaquinta ranked #13, which is still fringe Top 10 / inside the Top 15. I've seen Iaquinta ranked anywhere from #11 to #13 depending on the source used for rankings.

Yildirim isn't ranked higher in his respective sport than Iaquinta was in his at the time he fought Khabib. I'm not talking about a sanctioning body ranking but comparing their actual world rankings. If you asked a boxing hardcore to list their current Top 10/15 Super Middleweights Yildirim wouldn't be one of them. If you'd asked an MMA hardcore to list their Top 10/15 Lightweights at the time Iaquinta fought Khabib, in April 2018, they'd all list him.

Boxrec had Yildirim ranked at 10 I believe before the Canelo fight

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Boxrec had Yildirim ranked at 10 I believe before the Canelo fight

BoxRec did but that's not a sensible ranking for a guy coming off a loss (Dirrell) and having not fought in two years. All the other popular independent rankings didn't have him in their lists but they only rank the Top 10.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

I'm a big fan of Canelo but there's no defending this fight. Iaquinta was a last minute stand-in, they set this Yildrim fight up in advance.

As boxing fans, we have to ask ourselves how a guy coming off a loss gets to be a mandatory challenger (aka a #1 contender) for a world title. It's ridiculous.

He could have fought a guy like Andrade - who hasn't proven himself on the top level but is a promising undefeated fighter. At least that would have been defendable. But this is just a gross mismatch that has no place in boxing. There's no defense for it.

Andrade has his own mandatory to take care of so that’s not even on the table unfortunately