Caio Terra - "Technique Conquers All"

[yetanother]

There's been scientific testing done that suggests Chimps are about twice as strong as us, Gorilla about 5 or 6 times stronger and Orangutans somewhere in the middle but supposedly they're hard to train to actually lift weight for proper tests.

You're getting snapped like a twig by any of them with or without your roids buddy :-D

Probably by one doing simultaneous kimuras on your two arms with both hands and feet while flouting the accepted wisdom of 'no thumbs for the grip' use humans repeat.

I don't really believe the monkey strength studies conducted by Joe Rogan. If the apes are so strong how can people beat them up just with sticks. There are records of caveman hunting extinct super gorillas (bigger than modern ones) with spears and sharp rocks.

 

[Esile]

There's been scientific testing done that suggests Chimps are about twice as strong as us, Gorilla about 5 or 6 times stronger and Orangutans somewhere in the middle but supposedly they're hard to train to actually lift weight for proper tests.

I'm no expert but 5 or 6 times seems waaaay too little to be right, it doesn't make any sense considering their feats of strenght such as ripping trees apart with their bare hands and how insanely fast they can move despite their massive size, unless it means they are 5 or 6 times stronger than world class strenght athletes and not of regular people.
I have read some articles that say Gorillas are around 20 times stronger than an average man and it seems way more believable.

 

[Coconutwater]

By "size" I'm talking weight. Clearly there are pros and cons to being taller or shorter at the same weight, hence weight classes and not height classes. Of course there are diminishing returns with size above a certain weight, but generally speaking at comparable skill levels, being heavier grants an advantage which shouldn't be news to anyone.

I remember Galvao straight up saying having long limbs and good technique is an amazing attribute and the best body for BJJ, I agree. He had 3 or 4 reasons, the fulcrum change is one of them, it’s harder to tap someone with long ass arms or legs.

See Roger. Elite basics but tall AF compared to most, and he uses it well.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I remember Galvao straight up saying having long limbs and good technique is an amazing attribute and the best body for BJJ, I agree. He had 3 or 4 reasons, the fulcrum change is one of them, it’s harder to tap someone with long ass arms or legs.

See Roger. Elite basics but tall AF compared to most, and he uses it well.

Longer limbs are almost always an advantage in striking but in grappling at the same weight, I feel like limb length differences are close to a wash. Longer limbed guys (especially if they're flexible) can threaten subs from unconventional positions. But longer lever arm advantage works both ways - it's also easier for other guy to extend taller guy's long ass arms or legs. And at the same weight, a shorter guy will generally have more muscle mass, be a little stronger and be harder to submit. I'm thinking jacked manlets like Palhares, Paulo Filho and Sean Sherk from back in the day. All three have literally never been subbed in either MMA or sub grappling.

 

[rmongler]

All while they wear a shit eating grin

Amongst monkeys baring your teeth is a threat display.

 

[Foppa21]

When David Tua challenged Lennox Lewis for the heavyweight title in 2000, one of the commentators (I want to say it was Bob Sheridan but can't recall for sure) said something along the lines of "The good big guy almost always beats the good little guy. David Tua has to be exceptional today to win" in the build up. That's stuck with me ever since.

All things being equal the bigger guy wins. Caio Terra is exceptional at BJJ and even so he has limited success in the Open divisions. Mikey M has had the same limited success when he enters Open divisions.

I'd like to think that's probably the reason the Mendes Bros never entered entered Open divisions. Even they realised that as good as they are, they have limitations there

 

[mattemate]

Amongst monkeys baring your teeth is a threat display.

Sort of how sorority girls and real estate agents smile for photos?

 

[Coconutwater]

Longer limbs are almost always an advantage in striking but in grappling at the same weight, I feel like limb length differences are close to a wash. Longer limbed guys (especially if they're flexible) can threaten subs from unconventional positions. But longer lever arm advantage works both ways - it's also easier for other guy to extend taller guy's long ass arms or legs. And at the same weight, a shorter guy will generally have more muscle mass, be a little stronger and be harder to submit. I'm thinking jacked manlets like Palhares, Paulo Filho and Sean Sherk from back in the day. All three have literally never been subbed in either MMA or sub grappling.

Palhares doesn't get subbed in MMA because he's one of the rare BJJ based fighters and considered a legit submissions specialist, not some MMA fighter who worked on their sub game. If we're talking grappling, he largely doesn't get subbed because he's unusually strong, as in steroids to the nth degree strong, not simply strong. Hermes Franca, a small, stalky guy got subbed over 9 times, and he's supposed to be submission based. Gary Tonon, one of my favorite fighters was dismantled by Keenan's technique and IMO, long limbs which make it easy to quasi-gift rap opponents....

Like I said, Galvao is the perfect example of short and stalky, and he was going off on height, talking about how much harder it is for someone short to control and sub someone tall, assuming their skill is reasonably close. Wallid tapped Royce because Wallid was an active competitor, taught by Carlson and stayed to learn jiu-jitsu in Brazil while Royce went to America at 19 and only learned mainly from Rorion at that point. Ralek, Ryron, Rener, all tall guys, all giving shorter guys with more competition experience and great skill, tremendous fits. Ralek's match with Tonon took way long simply because Ralek looked like an NBA player compared to him.

You can pull on a tall guy's arm all day, but if his elbow joint is closer to your chest instead of near your crotch because he's a beanstalk, it's going to be hard to get that armbar. A chock may be easier on a lanky person who is tall, but try getting through their frames, a tall guy can frame you so much more effectively.

Roger can be on the bottom and literally reach around the opponent's back to grab THE OPPOSITE LAT to pull himself up and around to take the back, he's done this so many times.

I think Galvao nailed it with his descriptions on Flograppling, obviously it's just my opinion, we can agree to disagree.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Palhares doesn't get subbed in MMA because he's one of the rare BJJ based fighters and considered a legit submissions specialist, not some MMA fighter who worked on their sub game. If we're talking grappling, he largely doesn't get subbed because he's unusually strong, as in steroids to the nth degree strong, not simply strong. Hermes Franca, a small, stalky guy got subbed over 9 times, and he's supposed to be submission based. Gary Tonon, one of my favorite fighters was dismantled by Keenan's technique and IMO, long limbs which make it easy to quasi-gift rap opponents....

Like I said, Galvao is the perfect example of short and stalky, and he was going off on height, talking about how much harder it is for someone short to control and sub someone tall, assuming their skill is reasonably close. Wallid tapped Royce because Wallid was an active competitor, taught by Carlson and stayed to learn jiu-jitsu in Brazil while Royce went to America at 19 and only learned mainly from Rorion at that point. Ralek, Ryron, Rener, all tall guys, all giving shorter guys with more competition experience and great skill, tremendous fits. Ralek's match with Tonon took way long simply because Ralek looked like an NBA player compared to him.

You can pull on a tall guy's arm all day, but if his elbow joint is closer to your chest instead of near your crotch because he's a beanstalk, it's going to be hard to get that armbar. A chock may be easier on a lanky person who is tall, but try getting through their frames, a tall guy can frame you so much more effectively.

Roger can be on the bottom and literally reach around the opponent's back to grab THE OPPOSITE LAT to pull himself up and around to take the back, he's done this so many times.

I think Galvao nailed it with his descriptions on Flograppling, obviously it's just my opinion, we can agree to disagree.

You have some good examples and for sure those guys' games benefit from longer limbs. But Hermes Franca (if you're referring to the 5' 7" guy who lost to Sherk and then both suspended for steroids) has never been subbed in MMA. But I think it's hard to make generalizations based on guys at the elite level in either MMA or grappling. Galvao talking up being tall is kind of hilarious when you look at the success he's had as a jacked manlet. It's not like the tall guys aren't on gear as well.

Speaking only for myself as a 5' 8" 170 lbs nobody who's been training for a long time, IMO skill and weight have a bigger impact than relative limb length in grappling (at the same weight). Guys who beat my ass handily usually enjoy one or both of the first two. There is one particular guy at my gym with long ass arms and he loves sinking d'arces from f'ing 3 feet away. But his success with it is more on other guys not being used to his proportions. When I roll with him, I know to be careful pummeling for underhooks from HG (to deny his d'arce).

And stocky dudes can have great butterfly games. Marcelo comes to mind. I have a grinding pressure pass style and I have a harder time working it on shorter stocky dudes than lanky guys. I also tend to have more success defending subs than a lot of longer dudes with similar experience. But all of that could just be due to my particular game.

 

[Coconutwater]

You have some good examples and for sure those guys' games benefit from longer limbs. But I note that Hermes Franca (if you're referring to the 5' 7" guy who lost to Sherk and then both suspended for steroids) has never been subbed in MMA. But I think it's hard to make generalizations based on guys at the elite level in either MMA or grappling. Galvao talking up being tall is kind of hilarious when you look at the success he's had as a jacked manlet. It's not like the tall guys aren't on gear as well.

Speaking only for myself as a 5' 8" 170 lbs nobody who's been training for a long time, IMO skill and weight have a bigger impact than relative limb length in grappling (at the same weight). Guys who beat my ass handily usually enjoy one or both of the first two. There is one particular guy at my gym with long ass arms and he loves sinking d'arces from f'ing 3 feet away. But his success with it is more on other guys not being used to his proportions. When I roll with him, I know to be careful pummeling for underhooks from HG (to deny his d'arce).

And stocky dudes can have great butterfly games. Marcelo comes to mind. I have a grinding pressure pass style and I have a harder time working it on shorter stocky dudes than lanky guys. I also tend to have more success defending subs than a lot of longer dudes with similar experience. But all of that could just be due to my particular game.

Marcelo is my favorite, when he sparred Keenan, he had Keenan in tough spots but I remember hKeenan’s figure-4 from the back, MG was truly stuck IMO, because Keenan’s limbs fit perfectly around MG’s stomach, squeezing the diaphragm in a way short legs might never be able to do simply cuz they can barely get a decent figure 4 on. Same for slapping on triangles. I dunno…. I mean, shorter BJJ guys are certainly doing well in competiton, it’s not like you point and say it’s all tall champions.

 

[Daz2300]

I'm no expert but 5 or 6 times seems waaaay too little to be right, it doesn't make any sense considering their feats of strenght such as ripping trees apart with their bare hands and how insanely fast they can move despite their massive size, unless it means they are 5 or 6 times stronger than world class strenght athletes and not of regular people.
I have read some articles that say Gorillas are around 20 times stronger than an average man and it seems way more believable.

I think there is documented proof of a Gorilla lifting 1800lbs and based on size somebody calculated the largest Silverback male might be able to lift 4000lbs given their bone density is 5 times more than ours and their over developed upper bodies. Nobody has persuaded one to test the theory with sufficient bananas I guess

 

[Daz2300]

I don't really believe the monkey strength studies conducted by Joe Rogan. If the apes are so strong how can people beat them up just with sticks. There are records of caveman hunting extinct super gorillas (bigger than modern ones) with spears and sharp rocks.

Is this a windup, I'm not sure what Joe Rogan has to do with it and people also killed enormous whales with thrown harpoons in the past.

Being strong doesn't make them impervious to damage or bullet proof, they're animals not superheroes ffs

 

[mattemate]

In a pure IBJJF/ADCC fight with no biting IMHOa 120lbs orangutan would get wrecked by a big human grapplers, orangutans are fat so would be p4p a fuckton weaker than a roided out competitor, and there is a limit to the strength disadvantage you can overcome with just flexibility and feet dexterity if you have no technique.

Oh boy, here's another one. Why don't you reply? Scared of ape strength homie?

 

[ChickenBrother]

Oh boy, here's another one. Why don't you reply? Scared of ape strength homie?

All I know is that GSP's Ape Technique... puts people down.

 

[Thrawn33]

Checking in after an exhausting roll last night with a 230lb WB jacked cop in his late 20s...

My 200lb 41year old dad bod lanky ass got gorrilla'd a few times.

 

[yetanother]

Is this a windup, I'm not sure what Joe Rogan has to do with it and people also killed enormous whales with thrown harpoons in the past.

Being strong doesn't make them impervious to damage or bullet proof, they're animals not superheroes ffs

If you are 20x stronger than a human like some people claim that's superhero flinging small cars territory.

 

[winterbike]

You can't prove that.

 

[mattemate]

What if I AM? I have a prescription.

 

[Quebec Nick]

When David Tua challenged Lennox Lewis for the heavyweight title in 2000, one of the commentators (I want to say it was Bob Sheridan but can't recall for sure) said something along the lines of "The good big guy almost always beats the good little guy. David Tua has to be exceptional today to win" in the build up. That's stuck with me ever since.

All things being equal the bigger guy wins. Caio Terra is exceptional at BJJ and even so he has limited success in the Open divisions. Mikey M has had the same limited success when he enters Open divisions.

I'd like to think that's probably the reason the Mendes Bros never entered entered Open divisions. Even they realised that as good as they are, they have limitations there

At the end of the day, the best thing to do is to be as in shape as you can and optomize your bodytype

And always work on your skills

If you're a small guy it's the best you can do. You can't just moan and wish you were bigger

And yes sometimes you will skillfully surprise a bigger guy

 

[Lead]

A larger sized opponent should beat a smaller sized opponent most of the time if all things are equal in skill. I think what happens is you see a lot of lighter guys get more technical than larger practitioners because they have to in order to have any success. A move with say 10 details to it might require a 140lb person to get all 10 of the details right to pull it off, whereas a larger guy might get away with ignoring 7 of the 10 details because of their size compensating. So I’d say being larger can hamper your progress but if you find ways to train smart and truly get more and more technical, you should be beating others with your skill set but lighter in weight.