Can a human be able to run 100m in less than nine seconds one day?

[LEWIS540]

Technology, footwear, steroids etc have all contributed to it.

......and they will continue to do so as they continue to advance.

We're already pushing the limits of our existence.

People have been saying that for centuries.

 

[therealdope]

the strong wind at her back also gave her a deeper voice
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/FLO-JO+DID+USE+DRUGS+TO+WIN;+Steroids+transformed+her+says+training...-a060559543

"Rumor that she was on something"???? Seriously? SHe was doped to death's door -- LMAO.

 

[therealdope]

Remember watching a documentary on Carl Lewis and he spent the whole time throwing shit at Ben Johnson, Usain Bolt and everyone else in between.

Meanwhile it showed how in his 20s his feet grew 2 sizes and he needed to wear braces to correct his teeth due to his jaw changing shape.

The USOC buried literally hundreds of positive tests in the 1980s. Santa Monica track club came to being when OOC doping came in. THey moved just far enough away from UCLA to not be tested.

Look into Dr. Wade Exum, he spilled the beans.

 

[therealdope]

Pretty sure it is strongly suspected/known that her WR was wind assisted, but was allowed to stand due to a faulty reader (which recorded +0.0 on a windy day). Granted she also ran 3-4 other unbelievable () times around that time, too.


Edit:

-In the first race of the quarterfinals of the U.S. Olympic Trials, she stunned her colleagues when she sprinted 100 meters in 10.49 seconds, a new world record. Since 1997 the International Athletics Annual of the Association of Track and Field Statisticians has listed this performance as "probably strongly wind assisted, but recognized as a world record".

-
Flojo's 100m World Record (10.49 sec)

An unexpected outcome of the work on wind assistance was the discovery that Florence Griffith-Joyners' 100m world record was an illegal (wind-assisted) performance. Flojo recorded 10.49 seconds in the quarterfinals at the 1988 US Olympic Trials. This performance broke the existing world record by a whopping 0.27 seconds, and no other sprinter has come anywhere near the mark since. However, the official wind reading was considered 'highly suspect' by those who witnessed the race. The September 1988 issue of Track & Field News had a column titled "Everyone Knows it's Windy", which included the comment: "It's hard to say which number caused the bigger gasp at the Trials, Florence Griffith Joyners' 10.49 at the finish-line time indicator, or the 0.0 which popped up on the mid-straight wind board".



The doubts about the official wind reading (0.0) were confirmed by a study of the 100m races at the Trials. Plots of race time versus wind reading were examined for deviations from the expected relation. The wind reading for Flojo's 10.49 race was clearly anomalous. For all competitors in this race (not just Flojo), the race time indicated that the wind reading should have been between +5.0 and +7.0 m/s. The 10.49 performance was definitely wind-assisted. The real world record should be the 10.61 performance that Flojo set in the final at the 1988 US Olympic Trials.



Unfortunately, the IAAF has not yet corrected the world record list. The April 1994 issue of Track & Field News had a column in support of the findings, and since 1997 the International Athletics Annual of the Association of Track and Field Statisticians has listed Florence Griffith-Joyner's 10.49 performance as "probably strongly wind assisted, but recognised as a world record". In the 2003 edition of IAAF World Records, Richard Hymans concludes "this is a world record which should not have been ratified".



Note: Many of those involved in running the 1988 US Olympic Trials were opposed to the 10.49 performance being submitted to the IAAF. However, the relevant paperwork was signed and the performance was ratified as a world record. It seems that common sense 'took a holiday' at this track meet.

Carl Lewis ran 9.78 at that same meet and it was not recognized as a record because of the wind. I guess the wind speed device stopped working for FloJo's race.

Her 21.34 is stupider than 10.49, FWIW.

 

[LEWIS540]

Carl Lewis ran 9.78 at that same meet and it was not recognized as a record because of the wind. I guess the wind speed device stopped working for FloJo's race.

Her 21.34 is stupider than 10.49, FWIW.

Indeed. Same with Bolt and his 200m. Remember him saying in 2009 he thought he could break 19 seconds for the 200m, though he obviously never came close.

Again imagine what a roided Bolt could do with a +5.0 wind.

I remember seeing one of the Americans (Gatlin I think) on some show where he ran a 100m with an artificial tail wind equivalent to +20.0 or something, and he ran it sub 9.5.....not sure how legit that really was though.

Edit:

 

[franklinstower]

For a long time, no one could run under 10 seconds. The WR holder 80 years ago probably wouldn't even qualify for the Olympics today.

People evolve.

Steroids evolve.

 

[senri]

The USOC buried literally hundreds of positive tests in the 1980s. Santa Monica track club came to being when OOC doping came in. THey moved just far enough away from UCLA to not be tested.

Look into Dr. Wade Exum, he spilled the beans.

I'm sure good ol Conte would tell you some good stories back in the day too.

 

[senri]

Steroids evolve.

Not really, they just keep changing the formula of the drugs to offset the current testing procedures, only thing left to enhance is at the molecular level so CRISPR among other gene doping techniques will be the new age game in town,. To WADAs credit they have gotten a whole lot better at the current testing paradigm ever since the Russian scandal broke due to the whistleblower from the Icarus documentary leading actions on trying to set things right. His techniques and knowledge allowed them to update the organization up to a point that would eventually implicate so many athletes. This wold force many countries to pullback on whatever protocol they once had mastered to an art. You see the consequences of this a lot in weightlifting. China still has an advantage considering the CCP is heavily invested in athletic programs and have a whole intricate system around it, not too mention they are the manufacturers of many of the pharmaceutical drugs dispensed out to the world.

 

[therealdope]

Not really, they just keep changing the formula of the drugs to offset the current testing procedures, only thing left to enhance is at the molecular level so CRISPR among other gene doping techniques will be the new age game in town,. To WADAs credit they have gotten a whole lot better at the current testing paradigm ever since the Russian scandal broke due to the whistleblower from the Icarus documentary leading actions on trying to set things right. His techniques and knowledge allowed them to update the organization up to a point that would eventually implicate so many athletes. This wold force many countries to pullback on whatever protocol they once had mastered to an art. You see the consequences of this a lot in weightlifting. China still has an advantage considering the CCP is heavily invested in athletic programs and have a whole intricate system around it, not too mention they are the manufacturers of many of the pharmaceutical drugs dispensed out to the world.

Yup. By the late 60s training methods for speed (and several other things) had been worked out. The idea of records continuing to be broken as an evolution of sport is misguided. If anything, records are now broken by freaks rather than an evolution of training. It's amazing how long some records have stood over the last 50 yrs. Look at the men's 400m, it's been broken only twice in 51 yrs and the last time was 23 yrs ago.

Modern drug testing makes it much tougher to cheat in huge amounts. Just look at how stagnant times are in 5000 and 10000m running since they brought in the biopassport. If anything, times have significantly slowed in the past 20 yrs - LOL.

Cycling touts modern training methods, yet power data from the most recent Veulta shows that the third place guy was putting out power that some riders were able to do 30 yrs ago.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Epstein brings up a lot of good points, but he's also an idiot who tried to argue that Jesse Owens would have been as fast as Usain Bolt given the same equipment, so take anything he says with a grain of salt, because that's laughably ignorant.

Did you see (you probably didn’t because not Canadian) when they had our little bronze medalist run on a dirt track, from out of a hole, with old track shoes on? He was over 11 seconds. I doubt he was as fast as he was when getting bronze, but it certainly showed a big, big difference in times.


As for this human evolution thing, people in here talking about thousands of years of progress. This is all new. People only started having enough leisure time to train for a sport full time 100 years ago, and that is only in the big sports in the affluent nations. That’s why there are Swedes who held running records - the black Americans were still working 16 hours a day.

The last century has been a process of finding what works mechanically and diet wise, discovering the right talent for the sport and affording them the luxury of training, and also adapting equipment. That is why there has been such a huge spike, but it has been flatlining in developed sports for a while, now, and will plateau entirely.

Bolt is probably an actually exception and the best runner ever, though.

But look at Olympic lifting - Russians in the 80s still hold the best clean and jerk. It isn’t about human evolution as much as it is the financial drive of a large nation to succeed in a sport (like, we haven’t devolved from landing on the moon, either, it’s just not got the push), AND that nation having a large number of people suited to that sport (ie. China is driving lifting now, but they aren’t as suited to it as the Russians were)

Someone will eventually beat Taranenko’s lift, but then you have to wonder how he and Pisarenko would have responded had that happened when they were prime (iron sharpens iron).

But, methods will slowly improve back to that program, and there will be some new trick, and someone with the right genetics, discovered by the right coach in a position of affluence will beat it. Then we can argue about equipment and who had the better steroids.

Anyways, it will be fractional, small percentage, not this otherworldly human advancement thing. If you people really think marathon runners, for example, have gone from 3.5 hours to 2 hours since the 1896 olys due to human evolution, ask yourself if the Greek who did the first marathon walked it like a sloth. It had to take him days, right?

 

[LEWIS540]

Look at the men's 400m, it's been broken only twice in 51 yrs and the last time was 23 yrs ago.

Nah, that South African fellah broke it at the last Olympics.

And the 1968 WR, like Bob Beaman's long jump, was an absolute anomaly greatly assisted by the high altitude venue (and hi-tech track). Something like 15 WRs were broken at that event, many of them obliterated.

 

[senri]

Did you see (you probably didn’t because not Canadian) when they had our little bronze medalist run on a dirt track, from out of a hole, with old track shoes on? He was over 11 seconds. I doubt he was as fast as he was when getting bronze, but it certainly showed a big, big difference in times.


As for this human evolution thing, people in here talking about thousands of years of progress. This is all new. People only started having enough leisure time to train for a sport full time 100 years ago, and that is only in the big sports in the affluent nations. That’s why there are Swedes who held running records - the black Americans were still working 16 hours a day.

The last century has been a process of finding what works mechanically and diet wise, discovering the right talent for the sport and affording them the luxury of training, and also adapting equipment. That is why there has been such a huge spike, but it has been flatlining in developed sports for a while, now, and will plateau entirely.

Bolt is probably an actually exception and the best runner ever, though.

But look at Olympic lifting - Russians in the 80s still hold the best clean and jerk. It isn’t about human evolution as much as it is the financial drive of a large nation to succeed in a sport (like, we haven’t devolved from landing on the moon, either, it’s just not got the push), AND that nation having a large number of people suited to that sport (ie. China is driving lifting now, but they aren’t as suited to it as the Russians were)

Someone will eventually beat Taranenko’s lift, but then you have to wonder how he and Pisarenko would have responded had that happened when they were prime (iron sharpens iron).

But, methods will slowly improve back to that program, and there will be some new trick, and someone with the right genetics, discovered by the right coach in a position of affluence will beat it. Then we can argue about equipment and who had the better steroids.

Anyways, it will be fractional, small percentage, not this otherworldly human advancement thing. If you people really think marathon runners, for example, have gone from 3.5 hours to 2 hours since the 1896 olys due to human evolution, ask yourself if the Greek who did the first marathon walked it like a sloth. It had to take him days, right?

Sprinting is odd in that if you change the running platform, they will be fast but not as fast as the fastest historical sprinter that ran specifically on that same track. The brain adapts to a specific precise display of movement at the elite level. An example of this are sprinters who are adapted to running a lot of headwinds but do not run particularly faster in tailwinds or neutral wind races, because the body has adapted to apply force in a way that only gives them an advantage in sprinting on a headwind. Same for dirt tracks and the like, the body senses the vector forces are off and the coordination of the adapted muscles and nervous system cannot deliver the precise symphony of motion to apply it's possessed power on the vector forces of the ground properly. Sprinter thus runs slower. You see it all the time, this phenomena is why sprinters get confused when they don't run particularly faster after getting very strong in the weightroom.


It's not so much evolution that you are seeing in todays sports but more the talent pool exponentially increasing in humanity that leads coaches to being able to find the most favorable person with the right body type and exceptional nervous system development. The world is getting richer and more people are being born.

As for weightlifting, they are starting to figure out something Charlie Francis figured out with his athletes... Less is more.... With this knowledge they are starting to further increase the potential of lifters naturally and even more so doping if they can get away with it. And again the potential of lifters are increasing due to many more people doing the sport, favorable body types who are talented are doing well at the sports among those with exceptional ability like Lasha who will surpass Taranenko's clean and jerk soon enough....

 

[Bunk Moreland]

@senri

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Never mind.

 

[Madmick]

Did you see (you probably didn’t because not Canadian) when they had our little bronze medalist run on a dirt track, from out of a hole, with old track shoes on? He was over 11 seconds. I doubt he was as fast as he was when getting bronze, but it certainly showed a big, big difference in times.

As for this human evolution thing, people in here talking about thousands of years of progress. This is all new. People only started having enough leisure time to train for a sport full time 100 years ago, and that is only in the big sports in the affluent nations. That’s why there are Swedes who held running records - the black Americans were still working 16 hours a day.

The last century has been a process of finding what works mechanically and diet wise, discovering the right talent for the sport and affording them the luxury of training, and also adapting equipment. That is why there has been such a huge spike, but it has been flatlining in developed sports for a while, now, and will plateau entirely.

Bolt is probably an actually exception and the best runner ever, though.

But look at Olympic lifting - Russians in the 80s still hold the best clean and jerk. It isn’t about human evolution as much as it is the financial drive of a large nation to succeed in a sport (like, we haven’t devolved from landing on the moon, either, it’s just not got the push), AND that nation having a large number of people suited to that sport (ie. China is driving lifting now, but they aren’t as suited to it as the Russians were)

Someone will eventually beat Taranenko’s lift, but then you have to wonder how he and Pisarenko would have responded had that happened when they were prime (iron sharpens iron).

But, methods will slowly improve back to that program, and there will be some new trick, and someone with the right genetics, discovered by the right coach in a position of affluence will beat it. Then we can argue about equipment and who had the better steroids.

Anyways, it will be fractional, small percentage, not this otherworldly human advancement thing. If you people really think marathon runners, for example, have gone from 3.5 hours to 2 hours since the 1896 olys due to human evolution, ask yourself if the Greek who did the first marathon walked it like a sloth. It had to take him days, right?

True. Before this, historically most of the people who were able to devote full days to physical development were soldiers or entertainers. In fact, few know that Bruce Jenner is regarded as the first amateur athlete in history to train full-time. Before then, you were either making money in prizes, or you were working. Nobody was subsidized as an amateur to train full time. Today, that's routine. It's one of the reasons efforts to keep the Olympics as pure as it once was aren't realistic. The competitors aren't training after their shifts, anymore. They're not amateurs. To call them semi-professional is the most charitable term one can afford, but let's be real, they're pros. It makes me a bit sad, TBH.

Don't read too much into Russians still holding the best lifts. What you say about nations pinning their egos on medals is true, but this only works for fringe/passion sports that aren't big draws. Sports that do have strong professional infrastructures with fans can't be bought by Communist nations looking to "prove" that socialism isn't a shitshow. It's like governments fighting the drug cartels. There's too much money. Thus, there's too much much talent & effort. Notice the medals in the Olympics. Sure, the Chinese do great in Diving, Kayaking, Shooting, Rhythmic Gymnastics, and any of the other fringe sports where athletes still depend on stipends or non-profit sponsorship models. You notice them running roughshod over soccer, basketball, baseball, tennis, cricket, golf, or the combat sports? Of course not. Can't be bought that cheaply.

Also, I think those records would already be dead if Oly lifters today were as free as strongmen and powerlifters to pursue records without having to pretend anyone cares about keeping the sport clean. I don't think the anti-doping bodies in the 70's and 80's had any clue wtf they were doing. It was an afterthought. Anti-doping was a joke, and the Soviets were juicing their athletes like Derby ponies. Oly lifting also is competing with many more strength sports that have grown in popularity since then, or materialized overnight; so not just Strongman and Powerlifting, but CrossFit, Parkour, Rock Climbing/Ninja Warrior/Obstacle Courses, etc. These are all gym sports depending on high levels of strength that compete for attention.

 

[Clippy]

Are you allowed to have genetic / mechanic enhancements?

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

True. Before this, historically most of the people who were able to devote full days to physical development were soldiers or entertainers. In fact, few know that Bruce Jenner is regarded as the first amateur athlete in history to train full-time. Before then, you were either making money in prizes, or you were working. Nobody was subsidized as an amateur to train full time. Today, that's routine. It's one of the reasons efforts to keep the Olympics as pure as it once was aren't realistic. The competitors aren't training after their shifts, anymore. They're not amateurs. To call them semi-professional is the most charitable term one can afford, but let's be real, they're pros. It makes me a bit sad, TBH.

Don't read too much into Russians still holding the best lifts. What you say about nations pinning their egos on medals is true, but this only works for fringe/passion sports that aren't big draws. Sports that do have strong professional infrastructures with fans can't be bought by Communist nations looking to "prove" that socialism isn't a shitshow. It's like governments fighting the drug cartels. There's too much money. Thus, there's too much much talent & effort. Notice the medals in the Olympics. Sure, the Chinese do great in Diving, Kayaking, Shooting, Rhythmic Gymnastics, and any of the other fringe sports where athletes still depend on stipends or non-profit sponsorship models. You notice them winning running roughshod over soccer, basketball, baseball, tennis, cricket, golf, or the combat sports? Of course not. Can't be bought that cheaply.

Also, I think those records would already be dead if Oly lifters today were as free as strongmen and powerlifters to pursue records without having to pretend anyone cares about keeping the sport clean. I don't think the anti-doping bodies in the 70's and 80's had any clue wtf they were doing. It was an afterthought. Anti-doping was a joke, and the Soviets were juicing their athletes like Derby ponies. Oly lifting also is competing with many more strength sports that have grown in popularity since then, or materialized overnight; so not just Strongman and Powerlifting, but CrossFit, Parkour, Rock Climbing/Ninja Warrior/Obstacle Courses, etc. These are all gym sports depending on high levels of strength that compete for attention.

Yes.
About the lifters/fringe sports.

This is sort of my point - people aren’t evolving rapidly, but financing, interest, coaching and talent pools are. The lifters show this, as the sport actually went backwards. Not due to human devolution, but to the aforementioned points.

If we go into a big war, and men are in short supply afterwards, and the focus is on farming and industry again (you know more about this stuff than I do, but I am saying our perch of affluence could change drastically) then it will Ben back to part time athletes, and we will also see crazy gaps between those at the top and the contenders again. Also, multi sport, unbeatable athletes like Jim Thorpe.

 

[therealdope]

Nah, that South African fellah broke it at the last Olympics.
.

Oh shit Wayde van Niekerk. Speaking of freaks of freaks, the only person in history to run Sub 10, sub 20 and sub 44.

 

[senri]

Oh shit Wayde van Niekerk. Speaking of freaks of freaks, the only person in history to run Sub 10, sub 20 and sub 44.

I want to study the properties of his flesh......

 

[Fedorgasm]

In don't think it will ever be broken because I just don't think humans are going to be around all that much longer. AI will be our be destruction.