Can we talk about the 400m sprint?

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I used to think that the 800m was a great cardio addition for combat sports, but I am more and more sold on the 400m. In terms of pure anaerobic output, I feel like it sort of matches the intensity of the deep-water part of a tough round. I also find that in addition to the above, it mobilises muscles and sollicits general mobility, flexibility and balance. In other words, I would surmise that it has tremendous carry-over to general fitness as it pertains to fighting.

So since they reopened the track next to my house (it was closed due to COVID), I have been trying the 400m once or twice per week for a couple of months or so. I improved my PR time from like 1:35 to 1:19. I know that sounds pretty pathetic but I was never a runner, nor do I have a runner's build (I have dat dagestani build with short-ish limbs and big rib cage, FML). So I am pleased with that progression, even if I know that it will flatten out pretty soon.

I am thinking about allocating a little more training time to try to converge towards 1:00 PR and see how much I can improve.
FYI I am 41 Y-O, decent overall shape, run 5K a couple of times a week consistently.

So let's discuss the 400m - I am interesting in hearing the thoughts of the knowledgable posters here.

 

[Stuart0502]

Energy demands of running;

"The relative contribution of the aerobic energy system to the 200-, 400-, 800-, and 1500-m events was 29%, 43%, 66%, and 84%, respectively"

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.654.4991&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Energy demands of 3 X 2 amateur boxing;

"relative contributions of 77% aerobic, 19% anaerobic alactic, and 4% anaerobic lactic./The results indicate that the metabolic profile of amateur boxing is predominantly aerobic. They also highlight the importance of a highly developed aerobic capacity as a prerequisite of a high activity rate during rounds and recovery of the high-energy phosphate system during breaks as interrelated requirements of successful boxing.

https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijspp/9/2/article-p233.xml

400 meters repeats are a great workout for developing cardio for MMA imo but 400 meters runners themselves would have a more developed anaerobic lactic system and a greatly under developed aerobic system compared to the energy demands of a fight. Most of the running 400 meters runners do is geared to speed development and is actually less than 400 meters in isolation from what I've seen.

 

[SandisLL]

The test values for sport sambo if I correctly remember were time for running: 30m, 60 m, maybe also 100m, 200m ( not sure ), 3000m and longer distance running + lifting etc like stuff.
While for training it is better to adjust individual program tailored for you, bearing in account your tests results. It is like they test you and you get some programm for you, then after month/ two they test you again, adjust your program etc. then again after some time the same thing: control tests and program again might be adjusted for you individually.

For am boxing I had gas tank enough for 6*3min rounds very fast sparring before am boxing debut ( I had am KB a bit under belt before this ). I then was 17 y.o.

There are some research papers :
Overview of a typical 12-week preparatory phase for professional boxing. | Download Scientific Diagram (researchgate.net)







Effects of Sparring Load on Reaction Speed and Punch Force During the Precompetition and Competition Periods in Boxing | Request PDF (researchgate.net)





(PDF) Optimising strength development in boxers: Determination of peak impulse and rate of force development during a 'trap-bar deadlift' (researchgate.net)







(PDF) Strength and Conditioning for Professional Boxing: Recommendations for Physical Preparation (researchgate.net)



I didn't had evaluated these in depth cos had read up them when this covid stuff appeared.

 

[SandisLL]

S/C - fitness training I think better should be tailored for guy individually.
If I remember, I once had posted some parts from test normatives for am boxers and some piece from norm for military lads. Military norms pieces were under NATO standard, for boxers: from some EU but with roots in SU system ( fed norms not soviet norms ).
Like running, pull ups, push ups etc norms.

I somewhere had tables with test norms for SU sport sambo sport classes for this, I don't know where I had put this manual and book. Sh********* this was valuable stuff.
If I will remember books titles etc in detail, I will lurk in some electrornic libraries. Maybe, cos I'm lazy.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Energy demands of running;

"The relative contribution of the aerobic energy system to the 200-, 400-, 800-, and 1500-m events was 29%, 43%, 66%, and 84%, respectively"

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.654.4991&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Energy demands of 3 X 2 amateur boxing;

"relative contributions of 77% aerobic, 19% anaerobic alactic, and 4% anaerobic lactic./The results indicate that the metabolic profile of amateur boxing is predominantly aerobic. They also highlight the importance of a highly developed aerobic capacity as a prerequisite of a high activity rate during rounds and recovery of the high-energy phosphate system during breaks as interrelated requirements of successful boxing.

https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijspp/9/2/article-p233.xml

400 meters repeats are a great workout for developing cardio for MMA imo but 400 meters runners themselves would have a more developed anaerobic lactic system and a greatly under developed aerobic system compared to the energy demands of a fight. Most of the running 400 meters runners do is geared to speed development and is actually less than 400 meters in isolation from what I've seen.

Good stuff thanks for posting. 3 remarks:
- I think it is pretty clear that boxing demands more aerobic output over a fight than MMA or wrestling on average, which in turn will demand more anaerobic output.
- I don't think that it would be a good idea to replace aerobic (loing distance, low intensity cardio) training with only the 400m for any combat sport. The spirit of my post is to add it to one's routine, of course.
- I also really like thee cross over in athletic abilities from the 400m to other combat sports in terms of efficiency of movements, flexibility, strength, balance, etc.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

While for training it is better to adjust individual program tailored for you, bearing in account your tests results. .

But as an individual component of an overall tailored program, I think the 400m makes total sense, does it not? I mean it's extremely simple, short and can be done as part of one's road routine, can it not?
If I was suggesting for example to go full-Diaz and start training for triathlons (not saying it is a good or bad idea), one could opine that it takes too much resources away from combat training in time, preparation, etc. But the simplicity of the 400m is one of its advantages, IMO.

But this is where it becomes pure speculation from my side: I feel like almost every quality developed in serious 400m preparation will cross-over well to combat, especially striking.

 

[SandisLL]

But as an individual component of an overall tailored program, I think the 400m makes total sense, does it not?

Might make sense. Running distances and programs for training are usually 2 worlds: one is flowchart program, another is tailored.
I for example had replaced long distance running with swimming when I had bad leg ( leg ended before gas tank had get desired workload ).

Some fitness S/C programs does have running 200-300-400-500-600meters on daily basis.
For explosive speed short distances like 30m, 60 m are common thing in running programs.
In general they are running different distances, like if you are running 30 m and 60 m, you might do also these 400m or 600 m in the same day, maybe even also to add to this longer distance running.
boxing, KB, tennis: for explosive speed are more common 30m, 60 m distances running. Btw backward running too.
For long term gas tank different distances are used ofc.

These S/C, fitness coaches if they are good, in general are paid because they are able not only copy paste some program but their job is to tailor this to you.
Like boxers training: common is to do boxing training from flowchart until the boxer reaches some level and then continue to adjust for him with bearing in mind his weak and strong sides.

 

[Stuart0502]

Good stuff thanks for posting. 3 remarks:
- I think it is pretty clear that boxing demands more aerobic output over a fight than MMA or wrestling on average, which in turn will demand more anaerobic output.
- I don't think that it would be a good idea to replace aerobic (loing distance, low intensity cardio) training with only the 400m for any combat sport. The spirit of my post is to add it to one's routine, of course.
- I also really like thee cross over in athletic abilities from the 400m to other combat sports in terms of efficiency of movements, flexibility, strength, balance, etc.

Yeah I would agree with that.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Might make sense. Running distances and programs for training are usually 2 worlds: one is flowchart program, another is tailored.
I for example had replaced long distance running with swimming when I had bad leg ( leg ended before gas tank had get desired workload ).

Some fitness S/C programs does have running 200-300-400-500-600meters on daily basis.
For explosive speed short distances like 30m, 60 m are common thing in running programs.
In general they are running different distances, like if you are running 30 m and 60 m, you might do also these 400m or 600 m in the same day, maybe even also to add to this longer distance running.
boxing, KB, tennis: for explosive speed are more common 30m, 60 m distances running. Btw backward running too.
For long term gas tank different distances are used ofc.

These S/C, fitness coaches if they are good, in general are paid because they are able not only copy paste some program but their job is to tailor this to you.
Like boxers training: common is to do boxing training from flowchart until the boxer reaches some level and then continue to adjust for him with bearing in mind his weak and strong sides.

In my case I am a 41YO, desk jockey dad that can realistically not plan more than 3-4x / week of sport, with an average very, very grouped around 2x / week. So the key word here is "simplicity". I need something which is easy to track and where I can document my results in order to stay motivated. Otherwise I will not consistently keep at it. Hence the introduction of the 400m, which for me, is pretty high intensity already. That and training vertical jumps touching the basketball panel at the very same track, lol.

Oh and yes I also like running backwards. When I run my 5ks I often switch to side running, backwards running, etc.

 

[SandisLL]

Overall since 400m is not long distance, you might experiment.
Run these short distances, then rest properly, then these 400m, maybe between this some other exercises.
Since you will not be too tired after 400m, you might rest after this and do longer running distances if this is in your work plan.

I usually had used 30m and 60 m running ( ofc after warmup ), after this did something else and only then longer distance runs after this ( in the same session/ day ). Not each day lomg distance running.

I had found some stuff when I was young, some from this stuff was running up on stairs. The longer distance, the better it was. Like if 4 floor building versus 10 fl and 10 fl is not 18 fl.
Was usable for KB, however this was for me. Ppl are not equal.
Looks that you are younger than I, 2 years younger than I.

 

[RemyR]

I think it’s great. Sets of short, full on sprints are amazing for combative sports. Just don’t overdo it (unless you are training to be a sprinter)

And as a guy close to 40 myself I prefer sprints to long distance running as I feel it’s less punishing overall on body. I have to use a low impact machine if I’m doing long duration cardio.

sprints, burpees, and kettlebell work are stuff I wish I did more of when I was younger.

edit: I feel like 200m sprints would be enough but that’s just me

 

[KnightTemplar]

I've never tried 400 metre sprints. The longest I've ever sprinted was up a 250 metre hill. And really, "sprint" is a misnomer. It actually broke down as,

100 Metres: full out sprint.

100 - 200 Metres: jog.

Last 50 metres: just above walking pace. While whimpering

 

[SandisLL]

I've never tried 400 metre sprints. The longest I've ever sprinted was up a 250 metre hill.

You mean up hill?
It is different thing rather than running on flat surface.

 

[KnightTemplar]

You mean up hill?
It is different thing rather than running on flat surface.

Yeah, up hill. It's supposed to be safer than sprinting on the flat, as the shorter stride reduces impact.

 

[Disco]

When I boxed we (as a club) did a lot of hill sprints to prepare for fight night. One time the coach took a mini van and put it in neutral and made us push it up.

 

[dittohead84]

Yeah the 400m is a nice mix of power and stamina. The last 100m can be an absolute bitch if you went off too fast, or inefficient with your energy as some prick would say. I love athletics

 

[biscuitsbrah]

I personally love the 800 because it takes me about 3 minutes more or less. Perfectly mimics an amateur fight lol

 

[gspieler]

Just for reference: https://exrx.net/Sports/EnergyGraphs

 

[SandisLL]

Hence the introduction of the 400m, which for me, is pretty high intensity already.

Maybe try 400 m distances and keep time records for these runs.
After 10-20 days you will feel your shape, time journal etc alike things.

I sometimes might rack 3000 m run easily, I never was any kind of medalist level of course, approx 12 min 50 sec for 3000 m run this week.
If it is good day for leg. If it is really bad day leg is starting to go gone after 1500m.
For gas tank 3000m workload for me is easy for cardio, so I usually attempt to replace this with something else. swimming long distances etc alike stuff.
For 60m distances I do not use time check anymore cos I'm old, 43.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Maybe try 400 m distances and keep time records for these runs.
After 10-20 days you will feel your shape, time journal etc alike things.

I sometimes might rack 3000 m run easily, I never was any kind of medalist level of course, approx 12 min 50 sec for 3000 m run this week.
If it is good day for leg. If it is really bad day leg is starting to go gone after 1500m.
For gas tank 3000m workload for me is easy for cardio, so I usually attempt to replace this with something else. swimming long distances etc alike stuff.
For 60m distances I do not use time check anymore cos I'm old, 43.

I already track my time. My best is around 1m19s. I wonder how much I can lower it and what could be a good objective.