Can we talk about the 400m sprint?

[Stuart0502]

I already track my time. My best is around 1m19s. I wonder how much I can lower it and what could be a good objective.

From the times I’ve seen most fighters post online I reckon elite fighters would run 400 meters in about 60 seconds and 800 metres in around 2:20 - 2:30.

For instance Demetrious Johnson said he runs 5k in around 17:46;



The correlation between 800 metres and 5k is usually a lot closer than people think. The 400 metres throws a spanner in the works because the physical abilities are so different. That said I don’t think most fighters have the running technique, co-ordination or do enough plyometrics to run it that fast (even though there are high school kids who go comfortably sub 60 seconds).

79 seconds for 400 meters is a decent time for a 41 year old Dad.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

79 seconds for 400 meters is a decent time for a 41 year old Dad.

Thank you Sir, that is nice of you to say. I doubt that I will reach 60s one day, but I am sure that I will crack the 70s soon, as so far I break my PR by 3s every time I run on average, lol. I am planning on training for it a bit more seriously.
Actually fuck that, my goal IS 60s, but I doubt that it is realistic.

EDIT: yes, I am not surprised that 27 Y-O (on average) pro athletes reach 60s on the 400m. I think really good times start below 60s for college age track athletes, but don't quote me on that.

 

[SandisLL]

I am not surprised that 27 Y-O (on average) pro athletes reach 60s on the 400m.

18 y.o top lad ( not a pro) from specialised sport school might reach this.
While I suggest that your result most likely is not bad bearing in mind age group maybe is good result.
'
I never had took for me 400 m running time. Sometimes for am 1 round gas tank is used like 300m running, sometimes like approx 2000m running workload in 2 min KB. Depends from lad you will get.

 

[SandisLL]

Running scale for 3000m if I remember was according from age group for military lads.
41-45
A= 15 min 7 sec
B = 15 min 54 sec
C
D I do not remember, I should lurk somewhere.
E ( pass ) 17min 30 sec.

18-27 y.o lads
A + level was 12 min 28 sec and lesser time.
Passs ( E ) approx 14 min 40- 29 sec.

I'm not so sure, special units does have different criteria, especially about swimming, running with weight on ( backpack and equipment etc additional things, also with body armor on ).

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

18 y.o top lad ( not a pro) from specialised sport school might reach this.
While I suggest that your result most likely is not bad bearing in mind age group maybe is good result.
'
I never had took for me 400 m running time. Sometimes for am 1 round gas tank is used like 300m running, sometimes like approx 2000m running workload in 2 min KB. Depends from lad you will get.

I honestly think I can reach 70s in a couple of months. Will keep you guys posted.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Yeah, up hill. It's supposed to be safer than sprinting on the flat, as the shorter stride reduces impact.

I've heard multiple times that mechanically running hills puts you into the "correct" running form.

It like automatically makes you chest up, driving knees up, plantar flexion and whatever the fuck etc. Also like you said, the incline itself just seems safer feel wise, seems like you're way less likely to tear something.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

BTW, Bahamas just won gold on the 400m, at 43.85.

FFS, 43s............

 

[KnightTemplar]

BTW, Bahamas just won gold on the 400m, at 43.85.

FFS, 43s............

That's actually close to my time...

...for the 100 Metres

 

[ChickenBrother]

From the times I’ve seen most fighters post online I reckon elite fighters would run 400 meters in about 60 seconds and 800 metres in around 2:20 - 2:30.

For instance Demetrious Johnson said he runs 5k in around 17:46;



The correlation between 800 metres and 5k is usually a lot closer than people think. The 400 metres throws a spanner in the works because the physical abilities are so different. That said I don’t think most fighters have the running technique, co-ordination or do enough plyometrics to run it that fast (even though there are high school kids who go comfortably sub 60 seconds).

79 seconds for 400 meters is a decent time for a 41 year old Dad.

It's impressive but not surprising DJ could run 5K in 17:46. That's lower level varsity cross country time (sport DJ did in high school along with wrestling). Coincidentally it was also my PR as a 16 yo, 135 lbs HS varsity cross country runner (I also did wrestling).

Anyone and everyone can improve their 5k time but at that distance, weight is a big factor. You rarely see guys >180 lbs run <18 min. But at any weight, breaking 18 min requires a lot of conditioning + good running form and ability.

Thank you Sir, that is nice of you to say. I doubt that I will reach 60s one day, but I am sure that I will crack the 70s soon, as so far I break my PR by 3s every time I run on average, lol. I am planning on training for it a bit more seriously.
Actually fuck that, my goal IS 60s, but I doubt that it is realistic.

EDIT: yes, I am not surprised that 27 Y-O (on average) pro athletes reach 60s on the 400m. I think really good times start below 60s for college age track athletes, but don't quote me on that.

Good luck improving your 400m, I'm sure you'll be hitting 70s soon!

But 60s is very fast for 400m. And given that 400m is closer to a sprint than the steady state cardio that is 800m and up, I also think it requires some genetic explosion/fast twitch on top of good conditioning.

For reference, I have shit genetics for sprinting and have always had a dogshit vert. I never ran a 400m in HS track (that was more the domain of the sprinters) but before the season started, I sometimes ran a lap just to gauge myself and could never break ~65s. During my one season of HS track, my best 800m was 2:26 and that was mediocre JV time.

Last year for shits and grins, as a 46 yo dad who hasn't been running lately, I went to the track and ran 400m in 75s. Felt like my lungs were going to explode. Definitely trainable but you need to be anaerobic for most of that lap.

 

[Stuart0502]

It's impressive but not surprising DJ could run 5K in 17:46. That's lower level varsity cross country time (sport DJ did in high school along with wrestling). Coincidentally it was also my PR as a 16 yo, 135 lbs HS varsity cross country runner (I also did wrestling).

Anyone and everyone can improve their 5k time but at that distance, weight is a big factor. You rarely see guys >180 lbs run <18 min. But at any weight, breaking 18 min requires a lot of conditioning + good running form and ability.

I remember reading DJ used to run in high school. You don’t really hear of running being a background for fighters even though the majority do run.

DJ is probably one of the best MMA fighters at running.

I remember hearing Nick Diaz ran a 10k in 35:XX.

I’d guess the average fighter in the UFC (170 and below) runs a 5k in around 18:XX or 19:XX with some of the slowest guys running it in about 22 minutes.

 

[SandisLL]

I’d guess the average fighter in the UFC (170 and below) runs a 5k in around 18:XX or 19:XX with some of the slowest guys running it in about 22 minutes.

I don't think that this might be main criteria : time for long distances running for any fighter.
Doesn't matters is he am or pro boxer, KBer, MT guy, MMA lad or grappler.
If they were medalist level runners, a lot of these had competed as a runners: world championship, Games.
Some countries might pay more for 5 th place at Olympic than UFC usually is paying for debut fight in UFC ( usually ).
& sponsors etc alike.
Some 5-7 countries does offer very decent premiums even for bronze at Olympics.
Some countries does pay almost nothing or nothing ( government premium payments as a gifts ).

Fighters doesn't have to run at medalists etc level as a runners.
There ofc is thing called gas tank. Usually ( not always ) beginner pro boxer or pro KBer does have tank enough to run at least 20000 meters without gas out. elite or high level ams too.

 

[SandisLL]

If someone might think that all amateurs are unpaid ( in general this is reality ) then yeah, in general you fight for free.
Except that some countries might pay for continental level championship gold medal approx 6000 bucks to lad under 19 y.o as one example. U19.
With addition that he does have elite level sparring and training camps for free you box with " amateurs " in such tournaments.
This money might be higher than majority of world's pros ever will get for a pro fight.
TOP 10-TOP50, a bit TOP100 in pros takes almost everything while in division might be 1000 or even 2000 pros.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I remember reading DJ used to run in high school. You don’t really hear of running being a background for fighters even though the majority do run.

DJ is probably one of the best MMA fighters at running.

I remember hearing Nick Diaz ran a 10k in 35:XX.

I’d guess the average fighter in the UFC (170 and below) runs a 5k in around 18:XX or 19:XX with some of the slowest guys running it in about 22 minutes.

Agree with @SandisLL that running ability isn't going to be a reliable indicator of conditioning level for MMA. Of course relative to your starting point, your individual run times should improve as you get more fit but natural running ability and relative bodyweight have a big impact and varies massively by individual.

Coming from a distance running background and having good genetics and form for running, I trained with a lot of wrestlers and Judo guys I could literally run circles around on the track who could destroy me and make me gas out on the mat.

If Nick Diaz at ~180+ lbs ran a true 10K (not on a treadmill) sub 36 min that is really damn impressive. That's 6.2 miles at <5:48 min/mile pace, same as breaking 18 min over 5K. Most guys can do a 10K at around their 5K pace + another minute or two. As a ~165 lbs adult (who lifted weights and didn't focus on running) I think my best 5K was around 19:00 flat and my best 10K was around 39 min. Maintaining <6 min/mile pace over multiple miles is very tough and you don't generally see that outside of dedicated runners with relatively low bodyweight.

 

[SandisLL]

Agree with @SandisLL that running ability isn't going to be a reliable indicator of conditioning level for MMA.

Well while I think that very good gas tank is desirable necessity for any combat athlete, running time like national level medals, not alone continental or world level is not mandatory here. Otherwise these champs had also medals in running, cups etc in high level tournaments, championships.

While good gas tank, yeah, is must have thing here.

Coming from a distance running background and having good genetics and form for running,

That's cool. I never was very fast runner, just durable guy.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Well while I think that very good gas tank is desirable necessity for any combat athlete, running time like national level medals, not alone continental or world level is not mandatory here. Otherwise these champs had also medals in running, cups etc in high level tournaments, championships.

While good gas tank, yeah, is must have thing here.



That's cool. I never was very fast runner, just durable guy.

In my non-scientific opinion based on training around combat sports for many years (and noticing how fast other guys are running relative to me, a former competitive runner), I think most guys in competition shape should be able to run 5K <20 min (less for lighter fighters). But I'd suspect there are fighters even at UFC level who can not run 5K <18 min without shedding muscle mass.

Distance running is highly trainable but ceiling varies by individual body mechanics, fast vs. slow twitch muscle composition and of course, bodyweight. So two fighters same weight might have equal gas tanks in their sport and be in condition to run 5K at anaerobic threshold. But one guy might do 5K in 17 min and the other guy in 20 min.

In sprinting, I believe there's an even larger genetic component. I strongly suspect most <30 year old men could not run 100m <12 seconds with any amount of training because they lack sufficient fast twitch muscle composition.

 

[Stuart0502]

According to Matt Rhea who is a sprint/strength coach for football players.

Changes in sprint mechanics account for 3% of variation in speed, 31% is variations in power, 5% is variations in body composition and 61% is from optimising muscle co-ordination.



I don’t completely understand muscle co-ordination but I suspect the same principle applies in martial arts.

 

[listrahtes]

I don’t completely understand muscle co-ordination but I suspect the same principle applies in martial arts.

Dont forget that Rhea is talking about athletes that have done extensive sprint coordination training.
They are elite at it and then he gets an extra 3% by refinement. But in general sprint "refinement" drills etc is the muscle coordination training you need to get faster.

I honestly think I can reach 70s in a couple of months. Will keep you guys posted.

You definitely can do that. Focus on motoric drills and never go full out in training. Thats the biggest mistake people often make. If I do want to focus on running at least 1h a week are running drills for muscle coordination. Skips, high knees, alternating the drills, straight leg, ground runnning, unilateral drills...and so on. Other than that your most important stabilising factor is the hip hinge you can research that and that your running posture is in place. If you dont know any of that I would recommend you let a professional do a video analysis and give you some pointers. Its worth the money as it also lowers your injury risk

 

[KnightTemplar]

I've heard multiple times that mechanically running hills puts you into the "correct" running form.

It like automatically makes you chest up, driving knees up, plantar flexion and whatever the fuck etc. Also like you said, the incline itself just seems safer feel wise, seems like you're way less likely to tear something.

It's something of a trade off; easier on the knees and hamstrings, but tougher on the Achilles tendon.

Also, I'm not sure what I did was Hill Sprints, as that term usually refers to relatively short distances. Usually 100 meters or less. My training sessions were probably more accurately described as Hill Repeats.

 

[Martial Sovereign]

I think 200m would be better as it's more power focused and you already run 5k OP. You should do Nordic Curls to protect your ACL and get more hammy action, and weighted foot (knee) lifts so you have quick feet and strong hip flexors to improve speed as well. Some jump rope for calves and low impact conditioning would be good too.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Is the 400m the inside or outside lane of the regulation track?