Chinese virus from a Wuhan laboratory?

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No, and a tiny bit of research shows that we checked.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature

The tiniest bit of effort to be informed. Literally anything beyond pure facebook as your news sourc .
They were testing on bats looking for new coronaviruses in the Wuhan virology lab. Just because it came from nature, doesn't mean it wasnt leaked from a lab.

There's now reports from an independant news publication in Bejing that the scientists in the lab discovered the genome on 27th Dec, but were told to hand over or delete their findings. https://www.nationalreview.com/news...in-december-over-coronavirus-sars-connection/

And it's not the first time a coronsvirus has leaked from a lab in China. https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-07/02/content_344755.htm

Plus there have been leaks of other kinds from labs around the world, so it's plausable that the source was a bat in the lab and patient zero was a lab technician living in Wuhan (who happened to visit the wet market).
 
I think people are mixing "it came from a lab" with "it was made in lab". It's very possible from the video I posted the Chinese discovered a new virus in nature and brought it back to the lab to study it. Then with their know shity safety procedures it escape the lab.


I had no idea H1N1 was a lab escape flu! It went exctinct, but escaped a lab in 1977. In China.

China fucking sucks.
 
Alright let's go Occam's razor here.

Wuhan has several facilities that study coronavirus.

Sometimes they collect specimens from wild bats, return them to the lab, and study.

One of these facilities is less than 1/4 mile from the market where this bullshit began?

Just take a step back and think about it. I mean c'mon. The planet is large. These 2 places are spitting distance apart. They want us to think it began at point A, when the fact is that specimens are being studied at point B.

Quite a coincidence, eh?
 
I call BS. when's the last time china invented anything?

If it we trace it to a lab in china it just means they stole it from a lab in the US.
 
I didn't know that either. I'll look it up.
"H1N1 virus reappeared in 1977, in the Soviet Union and China. Virologists, using serologic and early genetic tests, soon began to suggest the cause of the reappearance was a laboratory escape of a 1949-50 virus, and as genomic techniques advanced, it became clear that this was true. By 2010, researchers published it as fact: “The most famous case of a released laboratory strain is the re-emergent H1N1 influenza-A virus which was first observed in China in May of 1977 and in Russia shortly thereafter.” The virus may have escaped from a lab attempting to prepare an attenuated H1N1 vaccine in response to the U.S. swine flu pandemic alert."
 
The video doesn't say that.
It references publickly available information from Chinese scientists, academia and the Wuhan lab itself.
Then I'm not sure why I was told to watch it in response to a post where I said exactly that scenario is not likely
 
Look around for Chinese videos on YT from Laowhy86.
After that you will believe.

I watched his video on the source of the coronavirus. It is very interesting and not what i expected. I think that the most significant claim is the seeming disappearance and suspected death and cremation of one of the lab workers, Huang Yan Ling, who is alleged to be patient 0. The rest of the video involves similarly unverifiable claims, that while admittedly appear suspicious and offer some weight to the case that sars2 was a lab escape, cannot be considered to provide a standard of evidence that would push this theory ahead of the counter belief that the virus did not originate from the lab.
 
They were testing on bats looking for new coronaviruses in the Wuhan virology lab. Just because it came from nature, doesn't mean it wasnt leaked from a lab.

There's now reports from an independant news publication in Bejing that the scientists in the lab discovered the genome on 27th Dec, but were told to hand over or delete their findings. https://www.nationalreview.com/news...in-december-over-coronavirus-sars-connection/

Plus there have been leaks of other kinds from labs around the world, so it's plausable that the source was a bat in the lab and patient zero was a lab technician living in Wuhan (who happened to visit the wet market).

The original article that your link cites is a great find and contains a fair amount of detail on the timeline that I found quite insightful (just to clarify however, the full genome was reported on jan 1; the 26th dec was only a partial identification)

With regards to the research on bat coronaviruses, i dont think that they would have been looking for new c-viruses in the bats, rather i think the research would be focused on the properties of the viruses and why they are so highly prevalent in bats. (this is supported by the Wuhan lab job advert that the Laowhy86 YT video shows). Furthermore, there is too much genetic variation from the closest matched known bat c-virus to consider a bat as the likely direct source of sars2. [1,100 nucleotide variations; compare this with sars1 virus where the intermediate host civet had only 202 nucleotide variations Ref.].That this genetic variation is seen in a pattern typical of c-virus evolution, further prefers a period of sustained natural selection in a high population density and not in a lab.
 
I watched his video on the source of the coronavirus. It is very interesting and not what i expected. I think that the most significant claim is the seeming disappearance and suspected death and cremation of one of the lab workers, Huang Yan Ling, who is alleged to be patient 0. The rest of the video involves similarly unverifiable claims, that while admittedly appear suspicious and offer some weight to the case that sars2 was a lab escape, cannot be considered to provide a standard of evidence that would push this theory ahead of the counter belief that the virus did not originate from the lab.
Its not just what happened through those days but everything else.
Its hard to claim what is factual or not and definitely It can goes both ways but when you watch older video of him and his partner about how the populace act sometimes ,its not hard to believe someone wanted to make some extra or just straight away did something really stupid.
 
The original article that your link cites is a great find and contains a fair amount of detail on the timeline that I found quite insightful (just to clarify however, the full genome was reported on jan 1; the 26th dec was only a partial identification)

With regards to the research on bat coronaviruses, i dont think that they would have been looking for new c-viruses in the bats, rather i think the research would be focused on the properties of the viruses and why they are so highly prevalent in bats. (this is supported by the Wuhan lab job advert that the Laowhy86 YT video shows). Furthermore, there is too much genetic variation from the closest matched known bat c-virus to consider a bat as the likely direct source of sars2. [1,100 nucleotide variations; compare this with sars1 virus where the intermediate host civet had only 202 nucleotide variations Ref.].That this genetic variation is seen in a pattern typical of c-virus evolution, further prefers a period of sustained natural selection in a high population density and not in a lab.
Well researchers do look for new coronaviruses in bats, but there's not much of a reason to bring them to the lab for that purpose. You can just swab them in the field.

As one researcher noted, while SARS CoV-2 genome similarity is 96% to SARS-1, that 4% could be decades of evolution. If it did come from a bat, its almost more parsimonious that it jumped to another host and back because of the unknown origin of the sequences not before seen in bat coronaviruses.

Its also quite weird if it was under study and accidentally released that we don't have a sequence for it.
 
No, and a tiny bit of research shows that we checked.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature

The tiniest bit of effort to be informed. Literally anything beyond pure facebook as your news sourc .

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.liv...man-made-in-wuhan-lab/amp-11587303649821.html

Nobel scientist says it was definitely made in a lab.

"French Nobel prize winning scientist Luc Montagnier has sparked a fresh controversy by claiming that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab, and is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus."
 
Well researchers do look for new coronaviruses in bats, but there's not much of a reason to bring them to the lab for that purpose. You can just swab them in the field.

Yes i was responding to the claim that they were testing the bats in the lab to look for new coronaviruses, which i dont think is the work being carried out, as you point out, they will go to the habitats and sample there. In fact, heres the exact sampling method used in a paper about bat coronaviruses authored by one of the scientists who worked in the Wuhan lab (Zheng-Li, Shi):

Sample collection.
The animal surveillance program was conducted from the summer of 2012 to the autumn of 2015 in three southern provinces (Guangdong, Guangxi, and Sichuan) of China. Alimentary specimens were collected using procedures described previously (18). All specimens were collected using disposable swabs and protective gloves that were changed between samples for preventing cross contamination and were immediately placed in viral transport medium. All samples were kept in liquid nitrogen or dry ice before transportation to the laboratory for RNA extraction. Source

As one researcher noted, while SARS CoV-2 genome similarity is 96% to SARS-1, that 4% could be decades of evolution. If it did come from a bat, its almost more parsimonious that it jumped to another host and back because of the unknown origin of the sequences not before seen in bat coronaviruses.

Its also quite weird if it was under study and accidentally released that we don't have a sequence for it.

This could be close to what actually occured, as a genetic analysis of a new sars-like corona virus that was discovered in Malayan Pangolins that were found dead in late October last year in Guangdong, has placed that virus as the lowest common ancestor of both sars2 and the 96% bat Cv [Source]. However, seeing that there is still so much genetic diversity from this bat virus to sars2 (especially significant in the receptor profile that is the crucial determinant of an effective host), it suggests the involvement of another host to give the virus a profile that would make it highly efficient to bind to human cell receptors. All of this is to say that there appears to have been a lot of fluidity between hosts before sars2 emerged.
 
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https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.liv...man-made-in-wuhan-lab/amp-11587303649821.html

Nobel scientist says it was definitely made in a lab.

"French Nobel prize winning scientist Luc Montagnier has sparked a fresh controversy by claiming that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab, and is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus."
Dude's almost 90, isn't working in the field, so it isn't like he has special insight. Even if he was drawing the 'it came from a lab' from some insight into the genomic evidence, it's way beyond the science to add details like 'to make a vaccine against HIV'. There's no way to confirm that from the evidence, so its obvious he's just spitballing.

He's like James Watson, did brilliant work a while back, got a nobel prize, then just spouted weird shit for the final decade or two. In Luc's case he just wants to stick it to Macron and also believes in homeopathy.
 
I didn’t realize virus escapes from labs were so common. This is frightening, and combined with all that I’ve read in this thread has convinced me the lab escape theory is the most plausible explanation. (BTW, there is a rebuttal in the link worth reading.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4611044/


Rozo and Gronvall, in “The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate” (1), confirmed the laboratory origin of the 1977 influenza pandemic and judged it was unintentional, but they concluded that its “relevance to GoF research is greatly diminished if the 1977 epidemic was the result of a vaccine trial or vaccine development gone awry; these are both more plausible explanations than a single laboratory accident.”

Separating the risks of vaccine development from those of basic gain-of-function (GoF) research is inappropriate, because GoF research seeks to discover antigenic and genomic changes that facilitate human-to-human transmission and/or augment virulence, with the aim of preemptively producing vaccines. Clearly, if and when such changes are identified, candidate viruses possessing novel potential pandemic traits would be sent to vaccine laboratories for further development, prior to their appearance in nature. Because it is unlikely that such traits would be unique, and because the natural appearance of any particular trait is unpredictable, a stable of multiple potentially pandemic virus lineages, and artificial hybrids thereof, could enter the vaccine development laboratories, multiplying the opportunities for novel GoF viruses to escape. This emphasizes rather than diminishes the implications of the 1977 H1N1 escape, since the 1949-1950 H1N1 virus progenitor of the 1977 virus was likely in vaccine development preemptively because of the unrealized 1976 threat of a swine flu pandemic.

I disagree with the authors’ statement: “it remains likely that to this date, there has been no real-world example of a laboratory accident that has led to a global epidemic.” The 1977 H1N1 virus caused a global epidemic, and as Rozo and Gronvall themselves concluded, it originated in a microbiology laboratory and its release was unintentional. Which laboratory is responsible matters little in the GoF debate.

Rozo and Gronvall also stated that, “in 1977, influenza research was performed without modern biosafety regulations and protective equipment, making the lab accident hypothesis much less relevant to the modern GoF debate.” However, the current record of containment of high-consequence pathogens is hardly reassuring.

My review of 11 relevant events (2) found that escapes of high-consequence pathogens causing community infections typically occur from state-of-the-art laboratories, including six outbreaks of severe acute respiratory syndrome and one of foot-and-mouth disease since 2003.

Since 2014, four extramural escapes of high-consequence pathogens have originated from prestigious U.S. laboratories. Virulent anthrax and avian influenza virus sent from the CDC (3) and anthrax sent from Dugway Proving Ground (4) by public carriers entered nonsecure areas of other laboratories. Activities at the select agent laboratory at the Tulane National Primate Research Center remain suspended after Burkholderia pseudomallei, the agent of melioidosis, escaped containment and caused multiple primate infections in an outdoor primate facility (5, 6).

The incidence of laboratory accidents that offer an exit path for high-consequence pathogens into the community through worker infection is unsettlingly high. In 2010, the most recent year for which data have been reported (7), the CDC received 96 reports of releases (intramural breaches of containment) of select agents from state-of-the-art select agent-approved laboratories. In these elite laboratories, a breach of containment happens about twice weekly.
 
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