Opinion Complete and utter disgrace.....

I didn't say that it was all he was responsible for, but that is such a fucking dumb thing to say when George Bush and Dick Cheney and Obama are still people.

I said that Biden was more responsible for the war than almost anyone else. You named me one VP and two presidents (one of which Biden was the fucking VP for) that are more responsible.

You're going to have to do better than that to refute my point.
 
I said that Biden was more responsible for the war than almost anyone else. You named me one VP and two presidents (one of which Biden was the fucking VP for) that are more responsible.

You're going to have to do better than that to refute my point.

I only need one person to refute your point. George Bush.
 
So your argument is that Joe Biden is not one of the people most responsible for this war because George Bush is alive?

Absolutely. Every President after Bush was just trying to clean up the mess from the can the Bush administration kicked.
 
Absolutely. Every President after Bush was just trying to clean up the mess from the can the Bush administration kicked.

Wow. Only one person is responsible for the 20+ year war. Not the people who voted for it or expanded it for 8 years while serving in the #2 most powerful position of the country. Nope, just Bush, even after he left office.

Real rational.

Honest question: are you a troll, or earnestly this delusional and partisan?
 
Wow. Only one person is responsible for the 20+ year war. Not the people who voted for it or expanded it for 8 years while serving in the #2 most powerful position of the country. Nope, just Bush, even after he left office.

Real rational.

Honest question: are you a troll, or earnestly this delusional and partisan?

Bush started the war on false pretenses and rejected Taliban offers to turn over OBL before the invasion even started and refused their surrender even after the country was under our control.

Every administration after was just trying to reach a conclusion that the Bush administration intentionally avoided.
 
Whether you are a Biden fan or a hater, to say withdrawing the military PRIOR to 10's of thousands of civilians, and leave the few military persons who were violently under manned was not an EPIC mistake resulting in Deaths is just plain ignorant. There is no talking to someone that can't at least be honest. No one is arguing we should have had an exit strategy....No one is arguing other administrations (Including Bidens previous) made mistakes here. But THIS one that killed Marines, that got Afghans killed and tortured...This one is on Joe. And probably the one factor, besides his age that has ruined him. Add on his disrespectful pressers, and coldness, as well as looking at his watch during the service of the fallen, he has shown his colors. Trumps was orange, Bidens is piss yellow.
 
Bush started the war on false pretenses and rejected Taliban offers to turn over OBL before the invasion even started and refused their surrender even after the country was under our control.

Every administration after was just trying to reach a conclusion that the Bush administration intentionally avoided.

Did the guy who voted for the war and continued it as vice president for 8 years have a pretty big hand in the war, would you say? Or is Biden not one of the most responsible people for this war because George Bush sucks?

Honestly, this is just embarassing at this point. I am not a smart man, but even I'm smart enough to know when someone is grasping at ego. It's okay to be wrong about this. Biden can be one of the people most responsible for this war, and the republicans can be cunts too.
 
Did the guy who voted for the war and continued it as vice president for 8 years have a pretty big hand in the war, would you say? Or is Biden not one of the most responsible people for this war because George Bush sucks?

Honestly, this is just embarassing at this point. I am not a smart man, but even I'm smart enough to know when someone is grasping at ego. It's okay to be wrong about this. Biden can be one of the people most responsible for this war, and the republicans can be cunts too.

Being responsible for the war and being responsible for trying to end the war and then finally ending the war, are two very different things.
 
Being responsible for the war and being responsible for trying to end the war and then finally ending the war, are two very different things.

Holy fuck you have to be a troll. I've seen you post in other threads and I know that you're a reasonably intelligent person. There is absolutely no way that you don't comprehend how George Bush can be the most responsible for this war, but someone who voted for the war and extended it for 8 years as vice president can be one of the most responsible parties to this war.

I'm done with this discussion. You're either trolling me (if so, excellent work) or you are one of the dumbest smart people on this board.
 
Whether you are a Biden fan or a hater, to say withdrawing the military PRIOR to 10's of thousands of civilians, and leave the few military persons who were violently under manned was not an EPIC mistake resulting in Deaths is just plain ignorant. There is no talking to someone that can't at least be honest. No one is arguing we should have had an exit strategy....No one is arguing other administrations (Including Bidens previous) made mistakes here. But THIS one that killed Marines, that got Afghans killed and tortured...This one is on Joe. And probably the one factor, besides his age that has ruined him. Add on his disrespectful pressers, and coldness, as well as looking at his watch during the service of the fallen, he has shown his colors. Trumps was orange, Bidens is piss yellow.

Trump drew down the forces in Afghanistan from 15,500 to 2,500 before Biden took office without taking any civilians or allies out. He also hamstrung the visa process for Afghan allies his entire Presidency.
 
Holy fuck you have to be a troll. I've seen you post in other threads and I know that you're a reasonably intelligent person. There is absolutely no way that you don't comprehend how George Bush can be the most responsible for this war, but someone who voted for the war and extended it for 8 years as vice president can be one of the most responsible parties to this war.

I'm done with this discussion. You're either trolling me (if so, excellent work) or you are one of the dumbest smart people on this board.

I don't think Biden is likely in the top 10 most responsible for the war.

He did end it though which is nice.
 
I don't think Biden is likely in the top 10 most responsible for the war.

He did end it though which is nice.

That's all you had to say. We could have talked about that instead of spending two pages arguing semantics and pretending like more than one person can't be responsible for something. It kind of sucks because that's a conversation that we probably both would have enjoyed, but now I have to head into work.

Either way, thanks for the convo. I'm sure we'll spar on another thread down the road. Until then, stay safe and live well! Have a good one dude.
 
Trump drew down the forces in Afghanistan from 15,500 to 2,500 before Biden took office without taking any civilians or allies out. He also hamstrung the visa process for Afghan allies his entire Presidency.

So it was bad that Trump drew down forces from 15k to 2500. But good that Biden withdrew the last 2500.
 
I'd also put McCain, Lieberman and Lindsay Graham above Uncle Joe.

Saddest thing I ever witnessed was leftists embracing War Crimes McCain simply because he disliked fat orange man.
 
So it was bad that Trump drew down forces from 15k to 2500. But good that Biden withdrew the last 2500.

Personally, no, it's fine. We should have been out a long time ago.

But, if you think we should have done more to save more supplies and people, then you should absolutely take issue with Trump's dealings with the Taliban without involving the Afghan government. The impossible time table set and the lack of effort between signing the agreement and leaving office.
 
The Left allowed the Democrats to cheat and steal the election for Biden.

This wouldn't have happened this way under Trump

Really? How exactly did the Democrats cheat and steal the election?
 
and continued it as vice president for 8 years have a pretty big hand in the war, would you say?

He didn't continue it as VP. In fact it's been reported that he tried to convince Obama to stop listening to the generals who were requesting a troop surge which Obama did anyways. He was only the VP he can't stop the war as the VP only the President can. When he became President he stopped the war.
 
Trump drew down the forces in Afghanistan from 15,500 to 2,500 before Biden took office without taking any civilians or allies out. He also hamstrung the visa process for Afghan allies his entire Presidency.
Why are you defending him? HE is the president, not Trump.....He withdrew, not Trump......Do you think he could have set up a system over a period of time to get civilians out? Do you think, you know as President, he could have set up a system for asylum for little girls and women being murdered? Do you think he could have sent a few units to help get people out, like any sane person would do? Because you know Trump can't do that since he isn't in office....Do you think Biden could have done something about the billions in military craft? Trump isn't in office is he? It's fucking amazing, keep blaming Trump....just wonder when that expires for people like you.....By the way I can't stand Trump.....but he is NOT the president. Biden came in and decided he was reversing everything Trump did...even said he was going to....So this is his bed to lie in...Just like his fucked up son and shady dealings are his to bear, his behavior in press conferences, his disrespect to the fallen, his dementia....None are the Orange mans.....
 
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