Demetrious Johnson vs elite kickboxers

Kanka said:
Who is an average kickboxer? I really don't think he has a good chance against most solid kickboxers.

Take some fighters who range in the top 10-30 at 70 kg such as Dmitry Varets, Dylan Salvador, Davit Kiria, Anatoly Moiseev, Marouan Toutoh, Josh Jauncey, Jonay Risco, Sergey Kulyaba, Victor Nagbe, Enriko Kehl, Nordin Ben Moh, Dzhanis Zuev, Khayal Dzaniev etc and I would in most cases still put the money on the kickboxer.

McGregor advantages
+ Accurate hands
+ Good fight IQ


McGregor disadvantages
- Poor low kicks and mid kick
- Poor teep
- Poor knees
- Weak power in hands when boxing gloves are on
- Poor stance for kickboxing, can not block properly
- Weak cardio, will gas after 3 rounds

Most of the fighters above, as long as they don't get knocked out would most likely outscore him. Even if he gets a knockdown, in kickboxing, fights do not get stopped as easily as in MMA. Fighters could get knocked down and still come back and beat him.
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Fair points. What about a prime Jose Aldo?
 
He would probably do better than you'd expect him to, but I don't think he'd be successful against the best of the best at his weight. Being totally honest though, if he dedicated himself to it (and was a bit younger) I wouldn't be shocked to see him in the top 15.

If Semmy Schilt had never transitioned from MMA to kickboxing, I'm sure we'd have a hard time picturing him being successful against Badr Hari, Aerts and the like, but he beat them all. Alistair Overeem also had success too + Dustin Jacoby was respectable. The idea that possibly the greatest MMA fighter ever to compete, might be pretty good in kickboxing isn't crazy to me.

achoo42 said:
Fair points. What about a prime Jose Aldo?
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What's interesting about Aldo was his toughest fights were against Korean Zombie and Max Holloway who were both dedicated strikers. He was more of an anti-wrestler who made you shoot at him so he could stuff you and then beat you up, than he was a guy who was great in kickboxing exchanges (though he was obviously good there). I would have loved to see him cross over, purely because he's so good defensively, I think if he dedicated to it he probably would have been quite good.
 
AndyMaBobs said:
He would probably do better than you'd expect him to, but I don't think he'd be successful against the best of the best at his weight. Being totally honest though, if he dedicated himself to it (and was a bit younger) I wouldn't be shocked to see him in the top 15.

If Semmy Schilt had never transitioned from MMA to kickboxing, I'm sure we'd have a hard time picturing him being successful against Badr Hari, Aerts and the like, but he beat them all. Alistair Overeem also had success too + Dustin Jacoby was respectable. The idea that possibly the greatest MMA fighter ever to compete, might be pretty good in kickboxing isn't crazy to me.



What's interesting about Aldo was his toughest fights were against Korean Zombie and Max Holloway who were both dedicated strikers. He was more of an anti-wrestler who made you shoot at him so he could stuff you and then beat you up, than he was a guy who was great in kickboxing exchanges (though he was obviously good there). I would have loved to see him cross over, purely because he's so good defensively, I think if he dedicated to it he probably would have been quite good.
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Though i agree with most of what you're saying, Holloway fought the shadow of Aldo. Aldo was his brutal best in WEC and when he entered UFC. A few years later he was a timid shell afraid to kick anyone.
 
Nova44 said:
Though i agree with most of what you're saying, Holloway fought the shadow of Aldo. Aldo was his brutal best in WEC and when he entered UFC. A few years later he was a timid shell afraid to kick anyone.
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So I see what you're saying, but I don't think this is actually true, at least not for the first fight with Max.

Holloway exploited habits that Aldo always had, and that fight likely would have gone the same way regardless. That being said though while leg kick Aldo is the most exciting Aldo, I'd still say his game was built more around exploiting wrestlers than stand up fighters, as he had similar trouble with Mendes and KZ who were both happy to actually strike with him in a technical way. That being said I'd imagine those sort of issues might not have existed if he dedicated himself to training purely in kickboxing
 
AndyMaBobs said:
So I see what you're saying, but I don't think this is actually true, at least not for the first fight with Max.

Holloway exploited habits that Aldo always had, and that fight likely would have gone the same way regardless. That being said though while leg kick Aldo is the most exciting Aldo, I'd still say his game was built more around exploiting wrestlers than stand up fighters, as he had similar trouble with Mendes and KZ who were both happy to actually strike with him in a technical way. That being said I'd imagine those sort of issues might not have existed if he dedicated himself to training purely in kickboxing
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That fight may have played out the exact same, there's no way of knowing to be honest. But even in Aldo's fights vs Edgar and all the fights afterwards Aldo just stopped using what got brought him to the dance, i remember watching and thinking "Did he injure himself in training?" and many people wondered if he'd thrown a kick in training and it got checked and hurt him psychologically, i know when i was sparring once and i threw a body kick and the guy took 2 steps back and elbowed my foot as it came in, my foot near broke and i was scared to throw kicks even when it healed. A lot of people suspected something similar for Aldo but it wasn't just one fight, he stopped his kicks, he lost his killer instinct, he just looked so different.

Like i've said though it could have played out the same, but Aldo (to me) was his best in WEC and gradually went down each year.
 
Nova44 said:
That fight may have played out the exact same, there's no way of knowing to be honest. But even in Aldo's fights vs Edgar and all the fights afterwards Aldo just stopped using what got brought him to the dance, i remember watching and thinking "Did he injure himself in training?" and many people wondered if he'd thrown a kick in training and it got checked and hurt him psychologically, i know when i was sparring once and i threw a body kick and the guy took 2 steps back and elbowed my foot as it came in, my foot near broke and i was scared to throw kicks even when it healed. A lot of people suspected something similar for Aldo but it wasn't just one fight, he stopped his kicks, he lost his killer instinct, he just looked so different.

Like i've said though it could have played out the same, but Aldo (to me) was his best in WEC and gradually went down each year.
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I think he just started playing it safe, he knew he was the best defensive fighter out there and because he was so hard to hit I think he started trying to coast more, if I had to guess, I think it might have been because he didn't have the cardio for 5 round fights, which might have been why he got more conservative
 
achoo42 said:
DJ is faster than almost any MT fighter but he definitely seems less powerful.
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Not too familiar with DJ’s MMA fights but he looks quite hobbyist here;



I don’t think there are many full time pro’s fighting below 70kg who would be slower than that on the pads.
 
Stuart0502 said:
Not too familiar with DJ’s MMA fights but he looks quite hobbyist here;



I don’t think there are many full time pro’s fighting below 70kg who would be slower than that on the pads.
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Don't do it DJ, it ain't worth it.
 
not in a kickboxing fight, he spends a lot of energy moving around. It would be easy for an experienced kickboxer to handle the fighter.
 
achoo42 said:
McGregor won a couple of rounds against Mayweather. I think he'd be able to beat the average professional boxer/kickboxer.
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mcgregor is a c level boxer
and kickboxing, also c-level. didn't he just get knocked out by another mma guy, poirier?

imagine what pikeur, noiri, allzov, petrosian would do to this guy
 
baconCrunch said:
mcgregor is a c level boxer
and kickboxing, also c-level. didn't he just get knocked out by another mma guy, poirier?

imagine what pikeur, noiri, allzov, petrosian would do to this guy
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Idk how good Poirier is in terms of pro boxing but by MMA standards, he is an elite striker
 
MM wasn't ever the most fundamentally sound striker in MMA. His speed allowed him to get away with a lot of errors and MM was also one of the best ever chaining and mixing up grappling threats with his striking which is why he was one of the greatest. He wouldn't have that same transition threat in kickboxing/muay thai. He'd have little to no chance against the names mentioned
 
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