International Did COVID come from a Lab in China? US Energy Dept asserts it was a lab leak [megathread]

[Hadron90]

Was not aware of this article, but it seems like it centres on a particular paper that doesnt appear to describe gain of function, as there was no increase in pathogenesis, nor was this the intended goal. But as you allude to there are two separate considerations: the accountability of NIH if it was; the likelihood of such experiment being the origin of the virus.

They explicitly increase its pathogenesis. That's what the mutations they make are. They alter it to increase its binding affinity to human ACE2 receptors.

 

[The Audience]

Are you just in straight up denial?

They combined a spike gene from one coronavirus with genetic information from another coronavirus creating a novel lab generated SARS (and MERS) coronavirus that they demonstrated to exhibit enhanced pathogenicity in humanized mice.

How is that not GOF?

Havent found the mouse study yet in the release, but in general, we already knew that coronavirus research at the lab was funded by NIH. Is the charge (as suggested by someone above) that they did so to skirt the ban on gain on function work? This ban was applied to 'dual use' research which involves select agents; at the end of the release the protocols are detailed:

You may consider then whether the experiments such as with humanised mice you mention were gain of function outwith the scope of the ban. There seems to be some debate about that from what i see, but even if you consider that yes these are definitely gain of function experiments, I dont think this gives any insight into the origin of covid, because these experiments were with viruses that are only distantly related -with a shared ancestor hundreds of years ago. Again, nobody was looking at viruses in the covid lineage until the pandemic.

 

[The Audience]

They explicitly increase its pathogenesis. That's what the mutations they make are. They alter it to increase its binding affinity to human ACE2 receptors.

Was looking at a different one

 

[Hadron90]

I dont think this gives any insight into the origin of covid, because these experiments were with viruses that are only distantly related -with a shared ancestor hundreds of years ago. Again, nobody was looking at viruses in the covid lineage until the pandemic.

You have no way of knowing that. There was never an investigation into it. The lab could have been very well working on these. In fact, its very likely they were since the nearest neighborhing wild virus to Covid was isolated and published only by this lab. So we know for sure that they had samples of much closer viruses on site.

EDIT to add more info: The nearest neighbor to Covid in nature found so far is RATG13, which was found in 2013 and published Jan. 2020 by the Wuhan Institute of Virology. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MN996532)

So the claim that its unlikely this lab is doing gain of function research on viruses like Covid is simply based on nothing. We know just off what they have published that they have samples of viruses nearer to Covid than any other lab in the world. And your point that they haven't published any GoF research on this line of coronaviruses doesn't mean much either, since it took them 7 years to publish a simple sequence on a strain they collected in 2013. They very well could have had unpublished research ongoing.

 

[ineverpost]

You have no way of knowing that. There was never an investigation into it. The lab could have been very well working on these. In fact, its very likely they were since the nearest neighborhing wild virus to Covid was isolated and published only by this lab. So we know for sure that they had samples of much closer viruses on site.

to me it is obvious this virus is from this lab. China is doing their typical "blame the foreigners" that they always do when they fuck up. Then you have a bunch of employees having to go to the hospital for flu symptoms. then you have the major outbreak that happens down the street.

 

[The Audience]

You have no way of knowing that. There was never an investigation into it. The lab could have been very well working on these. In fact, its very likely they were since the nearest neighborhing wild virus to Covid was isolated and published only by this lab. So we know for sure that they had samples of much closer viruses on site.

EDIT to add more info: The nearest neighbor to Covid in nature found so far is RATG13, which was found in 2013 and published Jan. 2020 by the Wuhan Institute of Virology. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MN996532)

So the claim that its unlikely this lab is doing gain of function research on viruses like Covid is simply based on nothing. We know just off what they have published that they have samples of viruses nearer to Covid than any other lab in the world. And your point that they haven't published any GoF research on this line of coronaviruses doesn't mean much either, since it took them 7 years to publish a simple sequence on a strain they collected in 2013. They very well could have had unpublished research ongoing.

'So we know for sure that they had samples of much closer viruses on site.' How can you know this? In most parts of the genome, RmYN02 is closer -which they didnt have. If anything, the fact that they sat on RaTG13 indicates that they didnt consider it significant to the direction of their research, which going by everything that they published, and the Intercept release, was very much focused on Sars-cov.

If they did have unpublished research on a sars-cov-2 like virus, it would break precedent to start doing gain of function experiments before they had even published the sequence. Given that these experiments are also subject to oversight [as the leaked cables illustrate], it seems unlikely that they would be sanctioned without first showing the need based on previously published work -of which there is none.

 

[Hadron90]

'So we know for sure that they had samples of much closer viruses on site.' How can you know this? In most parts of the genome, RmYN02 is closer -which they didnt have.

RATG13 is the single closet relative to Covid that has been identified. It was identified at the Wuhan lab. No one in the world has a virus closer to Covid than Wuhan did.

If anything, the fact that they sat on RaTG13 indicates that they didnt consider it significant to the direction of their research, which going by everything that they published, and the Intercept release, was very much focused on Sars-cov.

It doesn't have to be a "significant" portion of their research. It only takes one experiment gone wrong.

If they did have unpublished research on a sars-cov-2 like virus, it would break precedent to start doing gain of function experiments before they had even published the sequence.

What precedent? There is no rule that says you have to publish a sequence before you start doing research on it. Most people publish the sequence at the same time they submit their paper.

Given that these experiments are also subject to oversight [as the leaked cables illustrate], it seems unlikely that they would be sanctioned without first showing the need based on previously published work -of which there is none.

All we know is that the grant said the lab should seek permission for certain types of expiriments in the grant. We have no idea if the lab was doing that, how closely protocols were followed, or what the grant money was actually used for. Again, because no investigation has ever been performed. You keep assuming the best for absolutely no reason and based on nothing. Like if you were in charge of investigating Cherynobyl, you would have concluded its impossible there was a meltdown, because "the operators would have been trained and would have reacted appropriately to prevent one".

 

[ineverpost]

BTW, I absolutely would accept years of economic hardship if it meant checking communist China. I know the economic overlords won't but if there was ever a cause for some form of a cold war this is it. this is just the beginning. You think China doesn't dump toxic shit into the air and earth all the time? How do these liberals talk about climate change with a straight face? China is the #1 contributor to global warming and unleashing plagues on humanity. Not a peep out of Washington. At least Trump said their name. We need to take a hard line against them. America spent numerous wars supposedly defending against the commie threat (they were BS, I know) and now we have a literal communist threat and we are COWARDS.

 

[PUO3]

Blatant duck

 

[SBJJ]

https://news.yahoo.com/revealed-scientists-dismissed-wuhan-lab-140928767.html

So now that we know Fauci and his lackeys covered up the lab leak....what should be done with them?

 

[Chappi]

Wether it came from a wet market, got out of a lab or even if it was released on purpose doesn't really matter.
Either out of ignorance, stupidity or greed, at the end of the day people are to blame for it no matter what.

 

[MicroBrew]

TL : DR

- Wuhan scientists genetically engineered bat coronaviruses to more easily / readily infect humans.

- When Covid-19 struck, scientists were surprised at how the virus had developed a human specific adapation that made it more easily pathogenic.

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Wuhan scientists planned to release coronaviruses into cave bats 18 months before outbreak

Wuhan scientists were planning to release enhanced airborne coronaviruses into Chinese bat populations to inoculate them against diseases that could jump to humans, leaked grant proposals dating from 2018 show.

New documents show that just 18 months before the first Covid-19 cases appeared, researchers had submitted plans to release skin-penetrating nanoparticles containing “novel chimeric spike proteins” of bat coronaviruses into cave bats in Yunnan, China.

They also planned to create chimeric viruses, genetically enhanced to infect humans more easily, and requested $14million from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) to fund the work.

Papers, confirmed as genuine by a former member of the Trump administration, show they were hoping to introduce “human-specific cleavage sites” to bat coronaviruses which would make it easier for the virus to enter human cells.

When Covid-19 was first genetically sequenced, scientists were puzzled about how the virus had evolved such a human-specific adaptation at the cleavage site on the spike protein, which is the reason it is so infectious.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wuhan-scientists-planned-release-skin-145326380.html

 

[MicroBrew]

Peter Daszak wanted DARPA to fund the Wuhan lab's intentional release of a genetically modified coronavirus into Chinese bat populations . DARPA refused citing the great danger.

Daszak and Co. wanted to also modify the MERS virus to make it more pathogenic.MERS has a fatality rate of over 30%.

Daszak really should be at the Hague facing crimes against humanity charges.

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Peter Daszak and the EcoHealth Alliance (EHA) proposed injecting deadly chimeric bat coronaviruses collected by the Wuhan Institute of Virology into humanised and ‘batified’ mice, and much, much more.”

A Covid-19 researcher from the World Health Organisation (WHO), who wished to remain anonymous, said it was alarming that the grant proposal included plans to enhance the more deadly disease of Middle-East Respiratory Syndrome (Mers).

“The scary part is they were making infectious chimeric Mers viruses,” the source said.

“These viruses have a fatality rate over 30 per cent, which is at least an order of magnitude more deadly than Sars-CoV-2.

“If one of their receptor replacements made Mers spread similarly, while maintaining its lethality, this pandemic would be nearly apocalyptic.”

 

[MicroBrew]

NOTE: I know there is a megathread on the subject and I did post this latest news there but it doesn't seem like anyone noticed it. It's perfectly fine for a MOD to merge , but I wanted to make sure people noticed this breaking news, because it is big !

Article is behind a paywall, but if you reload and stop the page fully loading you can access the whole article. You might have to give it a few tries .

Wuhan scientists planned to release coronavirus particles into cave bats, leaked papers reveal
Documents reveal researchers applied for $14m to fund controversial project in 2018
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...lanned-releaseskin-penetrating-nanoparticles/

https://drasticresearch.org/

---

- US and Wuhan scientists sought DARPA funding in 2018 to modify bat coronaviruses that would easily infect humans.

Papers, confirmed as genuine by a former member of the Trump administration, show they were hoping to introduce “human-specific cleavage sites” to bat coronaviruses which would make it easier for the virus to enter human cells.

When Covid-19 was first genetically sequenced, scientists were puzzled about how the virus had evolved such a human-specific adaptation at the cleavage site on the spike protein, which is the reason it is so infectious.


- The American and Wuhan scientists intended to release the genetically modified virus into caves in Yunnan Province China.

- DARPA refused to fund the program stating there was a real danger of the virus escaping into the local population.


- This trove of documents was released by DRASTIC.
The documents were released by Drastic, the web-based investigations team set up by scientists from across the world to look into the origins of Covid-19.


- Daszak and Co. also stated in the funding proposal :
The proposal also included plans to mix high-risk natural coronavirus strains with more infectious but less dangerous varieties.


- Did the proposed attempt to make bat coronavirus especially pathogenic to humans go ahead?
Angus Dalgleish, Professor of Oncology at St Georges, University of London, who struggled to get work published showing that the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) had been carrying out “gain of function” work for years before the pandemic, said the research may have gone ahead even without the funding.

“This is clearly a gain of function, engineering the cleavage site and polishing the new viruses to enhance human cell infectibility in more than one cell line,” he said

----

- And you know what is worse ? Daszak and Co. wanted to genetically modify the far far more deadly MERS virus, which has a fatality rate over 30%. Sars-Cov-2 pales in comparison to MERS for death rate.

“Peter Daszak and the EcoHealth Alliance (EHA) proposed injecting deadly chimeric bat coronaviruses collected by the Wuhan Institute of Virology into humanised and ‘batified’ mice, and much, much more.”

A Covid-19 researcher from the World Health Organisation (WHO), who wished to remain anonymous, said it was alarming that the grant proposal included plans to enhance the more deadly disease of Middle-East Respiratory Syndrome (Mers).

“The scary part is they were making infectious chimeric Mers viruses,” the source said.

“These viruses have a fatality rate over 30 per cent, which is at least an order of magnitude more deadly than Sars-CoV-2.

“If one of their receptor replacements made Mers spread similarly, while maintaining its lethality, this pandemic would be nearly apocalyptic.”

 

[Poon Goon]

Sounds like someone should get fired or at least suspended without pay for a couple of weeks.

 

[Whippy McGee]

Fauci is the Godfather of the Wuhan CV-19 Virus.

 

[MicroBrew]

Sounds like someone should get fired or at least suspended without pay for a couple of weeks.

Sounds like a whole lot of folks need to be waterboarded.

Mods, I mean that tongue-in-cheek....

 

[Scrody]

Good stuff

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

So its all but confirmed at this point the outbreak is from a lab?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Let's say this is true and we all believed it? Then what?

Jack and shit would be my guess.