Do we need any more proof that punching power is upper body and tendons?

it is clear that yes legs and hip are involved but it is mainly upper body, infact not just core but chest and shoulder are involved.
Cool. I had learned body mechanics basics above HS level and this makes me to be entertained here.
I do not even talk here about fighting or your dreams.
I had learned body mechanics from professor who is also the same rank person regardless is he in U.S or U.K or EU or Russia or Japan.

I btw do know than some x posters here does have considerably higher than I do have formal and real level of education regards to body mechanics, more than 5 lads here.
You also had argued in grappling section vs guy who had served The Games on the mats.
This is till this extent of life here.
 
Agreed! In fact all punches are primarily driven by the posterior chain paricularly the gluteus hamstrings and calves in the delivery and the task of the upper body is primarily to stick the punch out and hold it there. This is seen not only in leg thrust which moves the lower body into the punch an d whiplashes the upper body to follow the lower body thus causing the punch to slam into the target with the force of the momentum of the entire body (dexter has translated from the Russian a useful study that shows this) but also drives from the floor the rotation of the trunk.

People who just start their training tend to use almost wholly arm power and then their core muscles before realising the integral part played by the lower body usually later. But that is why old school boxers like Joe Louis never bothered to train weights for their upper bodies - the real muscles driving the punches were a lot lower down!

This can be tested with hooks into the heavy bag - if one just throws the punch by merely trying to isolate the back muscles by eg sitting with one's feet stretched out on a bench vs driving the hook into the bag from the hips - the huge power difference is apparent.

Thanks for the reference to the book - I had never heard of it but reading the blurb it seems Thomas claims to hv taken on 20 challengers and easily beaten them at the age of nearly 60. Very impressive if that is the case...


Thomas is a unique perspective, as he was one of the last living examples of that now more or less extinct species of 'carnival fighter'; men who would sign on with shows traveling around the country, taking on all comers. '5 dollars to dance in the ring with our champion, 50 dollar prize if you can last five rounds!', that sort of thing.

You never could be too complacent when it came to dealing with some local tough fortified by liquid courage thinking he's got a genius idea to pull one over the house. Needless to say, he met with every trick outside the book over the course of a storied life. And when you need to go through a crowd-full of opponents in a day to make a living, one by necessity converges on a style of fighting that prioritizes safely quickly and efficiently packing them up.
 
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So- why do baseball players do so much lower body lifting then? Pitchers classically have huge legs & glutes. If legs and ass don't help deliver power, how does that make sense? I mean pitching is a great analogue to throwing a punch, it's an explosive athletic movement
 
So- why do baseball players do so much lower body lifting then? Pitchers classically have huge legs & glutes. If legs and ass don't help deliver power, how does that make sense? I mean pitching is a great analogue to throwing a punch, it's an explosive athletic movement

why are you looking at other men’s asses?
 
So- why do baseball players do so much lower body lifting then? Pitchers classically have huge legs & glutes. If legs and ass don't help deliver power, how does that make sense? I mean pitching is a great analogue to throwing a punch, it's an explosive athletic movement


Olympic throwing sports have settled this question down to a science a long time ago. Big throws take big bunda.
 
So- why do baseball players do so much lower body lifting then? Pitchers classically have huge legs & glutes. If legs and ass don't help deliver power, how does that make sense? I mean pitching is a great analogue to throwing a punch, it's an explosive athletic movement

Exactly. Just like punching there is trunk rotation in baseball pitching and its driven primarily by the largest muscle groups in the body that are in the legs. The glutes are not only the strongest and largest muscle group in the posterior chain it is the largest and strongest in the body period.

Likewise for shot put the kinetic chain starts from the ground and the lower body provides the main drive which the core then adds to and the arms and shoulders and chest muscles add final touch and direcitonalty.

Likewise for tennis as well where the leg muscles and hip muscles are vital for hip rotation and torso rotation to drive the tennis racquet trough the ball. The kinetic chain also starts from the ground and thus the legs.
 
Likewise for shot put the kinetic chain starts from the ground and the lower body provides the main drive which the core then adds to and the arms and shoulders and chest muscles add final touch and direcitonalty.
You are making more ignorant comparisons here. For a start Shot Put is a push vs a throw and they are not the same mechanically, as reflected in the different training and body types. Maybe no one taught you the basics never to 'push' your punches?
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You are making more ignorant comparisons here. For a start Shot Put is a push vs a throw and they are not the same mechanically, as reflected in the different training and body types. Maybe no one taught you the basics never to 'push' your punches?
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Please learn to read and comprehend and make proper comparisons properly before u comment and make yourself look even more foolish than u already look to everyone on this forum....

My comment was clearly on the nature of the kinetic chain. Shot put and boxing punching with the right cross both involve a powerful circular trunk rotation. Both kinetic chains start from the ground. (In fact all athletic movements done standijg up on the ground have kinetic chains that start from the ground and thus from the legs. U however are the only person who tries to start his chain from top down to the ground!)

Nowhere did I suggest that the punch and the shot put push throw are exactly the same. My comment was purely on the nature of both kinetic chains as being primarily driven by the legs exploding from the ground. The fact that a shot put is pushed rather than thrown makes no difference in respect to the nature of the kinetic chain as being driven primarily by the legs and hips from the ground which is what I actually made the comparison wth boxing about.

Given u have nothing to say about the kinetic chain itself I take it that u concede that point. Likewise your failure to comment on baseball pitching and tennis strokes must also be your concession that I am right there. The extra laughable part is thtat baseball pitching sure is throwing and not pushing and so of course u were completely silent on it !

If u want to discuss u should do so properly and not resort to try to score a point by raising a straw man point that others never even made...
 
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Thomas is a unique perspective, as he was one of the last living examples of that now more or less extinct species of 'carnival fighter'; men who would sign on with shows traveling around the country, taking on all comers. '5 dollars to dance in the ring with our champion, 50 dollar prize if you can last five rounds!', that sort of thing.

You never could be too complacent when it came to dealing with some local tough fortified by liquid courage thinking he's got a genius idea to pull one over the house. Needless to say, he met with every trick outside the book over the course of a storied life. And when you need to go through a crowd-full of opponents in a day to make a living, one by necessity converges on a style of fighting that prioritizes safely quickly and efficiently packing them up.

Not sure why any sane untrained person would want to fight someone like that for a few bucks. A moments thought would make one realise that he must be successful almost all the time and how many towns and villages he has fought in and won every fight. The local grog must be strong stuff to overcome that! If he is so successful at fighting for money alone that is certainly a guy u dont want to be mad at you and to fight for keeps thats for sure...
 
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3. All martial arts that I know of teach that strikes originate from the ground - which makes sense because it is rhe ground that we push and brace against. Aa a result the chain begins from the lower body that is in contact with the ground.
They teach rooting because the more you are planted the more is braced for impact yes. This is not the same as saying the punching action or force originates from the ground but that you are braced on impact. Obviously if you are to add legspring then you need to be on a hard surface.

4. According to the study by Khusainov (see https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/cuban-boxing-fundamentals.3780639/page-15) the punch begins with the movement of the lower body in the direction of the punch and whiplashes the upper body forward. The upper body erects the punch and the punch then slams into the target with all the force and momentum of the entire body behind it. The lower body therefore leads the punching action, not the upper body. Khusainov covered this for the forward motion but this ireality s true not only for the forward motion caused by the leg thrust but also in the turnk rotation that is powered by the hips and leg muscles in the posterior chain.
This is simply repeating the same data we have mentiontioned numerous times confirming the upper body as more significant a contribution than the legs.

"in the work of Khusyaynov (1983) it was established that the power characteristic of a strike is 39% dependent on the efforts of the leg muscles, 37% on the efforts of the muscles of the trunk, and 24% on the efforts of the muscles of the arm"

Or as they put it:

"1) repulsive extension of the leg;
2) rotational-translational movement of the body;
3) shock movement of the hand to the target."


There is no data I see showing the actual mechanics of the kinetic chain and it is definitely more complex than simply linear.
If a punch starts in the legs, how does one throw a punch on the ground?
Clearly syncing the entire kinetic chain is key but it does not change the fact that the punching action fundamentally starts at the arms and shoulder and it is about coordinating this movement with the torso and hip rotation and leg thrust to increase power.

7. The website u had tried to cite appears not to be about boxing at all but about general movement. The role of back muscles in assisting the rotation of spinal vertebrae is not in issue at all br what is in issue is what is the primary muscle groups responsible for driving the torso rotation behind punches which the article is of no assistance on whatsoever.
I had provided a video even showing the significant contribution of the upper body in torso rotation matching the studies shown but still you try to deny it. They even highlighted muscles involved in a swinging action which is directly relevent to a punch.
 
They teach rooting because the more yourare planted the more is braced for impact yes. This is not the same as saying the pinching action or force originates from the ground.


This is simply repeating the same data we have mentiontioned numerous times confirming the upper body as more significant a contribution than the legs.

"in the work of Khusyaynov (1983) it was established that the power characteristic of a strike is 39% dependent on the efforts of the leg muscles, 37% on the efforts of the muscles of the trunk, and 24% on the efforts of the muscles of the arm"

Or as they put it:

"1) repulsive extension of the leg;
2) rotational-translational movement of the body;
3) shock movement of the hand to the target."


There is no data I see showing the actual mechanics of the kinetic chain and it is definitely more complex than simply linear.
If a punch starts in the legs, how does one throw a punch on the ground?
Clearly syncing the entire kinetic chain is key but it does not change the fact that the punching action fundamentally starts at the arms and shoulder and it is about coordinating this movement with the torso and hip rotation and leg thrust.


I had provided a video even showing the significant contribution of the upper body in torso rotation mqtching the studies shown but still you try to deny it. They even highlighted muscles involved in a swinging action which is directly relevent to a punch.

Let me try one more to reason with u...

1. Why do u need to brace yourself against the ground? To be able to resist the equal and opposite forces that comes back under newtonian physics when u throw the punch? But how do u even generate the first force vector behind the punch in the first place? By pushing against the ground. Leg thrust is the single most important force contributor behind the punch because the leg is thrusting against the floor.

2. Why do u quote khusaynov but fail to address the main point he is making and that I was highlighting? Which is that the lower body starts the movement and leads the upper body ? It pulls the upper body forward in a whiplashing motion. Obviously this is only possible if the leg thrusts against the floor. And hence the ground and legs - not the arms and shoulder- is the start of the kinetic chain. The lower body power is then chained with the rest of the body to result on the punch hitting through the target. You are unable to see this because u have not trained in a boxing gym before and have never been taught how to punch boxing style.

3. The link u tried to show is about the general movement of the body - not about power movements that require deployment of the kinetic chain to drive a high load and explosive athletic activity. That is why all the sports I raised like baseball, tennis and shot put all require the deployment of the lower body to power the rotation.

4 Let me suggest a modified version of the experiment I suggested earlier since u don't know how to punch boxing style. I am assuming that u know how to throw a baseball or softball properly...

Sit with your feet stretched out before you on a bench. Now using solely the shoulder and waist rotation but leading with the shoulder, throw a baseball as far as u can.

Then stand with your feet on the ground and wind up with your hips and legs like how a baseball pitcher knows how to do and throw the baseball as far as u can.

I am sure u will find that u can throw considerably further with the latter method than the former.

This is because of the power of the legs and lower body and having a proper kinetic chain tying in with human biomechanics and the ground connection.

5. In fact it is impossible to have a kinetic chain going i u start from the top from your shoulders and try to engage the lower body from the top. This is because the lower body is your base. It is in contact with the ground. U have to start the chain from the base otherwise what is happening is that u r not engaging the power of the lower body at all in your punch and u r not pushing off against the ground first.

But once u start with the lower body the kinetic chain cascades upwards through the core through the shoulders and blasts through the punch. It is a CHAIN That naturally connects smoothly upwards into the punch.

However if u start from the shoulder what is happening is that u r not even able to engage the waist as a meaningful part of the chain. Instead the shoulders can only engage with the arm. The wave cannot flow down from the shoulder to the waist and then upwards again into the arm and then into the fist because it si the shoulder that connects to the arm physically. The force is thus much weaker.

If u start with the waist alone without the lower body u can at least engage the shoulders and then the arm and the punch because the wave goes from the waist into the shoulder and then into the arm and then the fist But u cannot engage the lower body and ucannot push off against the ground and all u r doing is sitting on the ground - like the experiment of sitting on the park bench. Where u start the chain is the beginning of the chain.

Look, it is not going to be the end of the world if u realise that u r wrong about something. That happens to people all the time. The difference is that the rational thing to do is to accept it and learn from it and move on, not to uselessly argue against what is patently true.
 
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Not sure why any sane untrained person would want to fight someone like that for a few bucks. A moments thought would make one realise that he must be successful almost all the time and how many towns and villages he has fought in and won every fight. The local grog must be strong stuff to overcome that! If he is so successful at fighting for money alone that is certainly a guy u dont want to be mad at you and to fight for keeps thats for sure...


Money was less debased back then so a dollar meant something different. Also ballpark napkin figures just made to illustrate what was talked about. Also also the thrill/spectacle of getting into a fight itself is part of the attraction. It's 'expected' to lose so what's the harm in trying? There's anyways a chance in one's mind when you're a hot blooded buck looking for outlets.
 
Let me try one more to reason with u...
1. Why do u need to brace yourself against the ground? To be able to resist the equal and opposite forces that comes back under newtonian physics when u throw the punch? But how do u even generate the first force vector behind the punch in the first place? By pushing against the ground. Leg thrust is the single most important force contributor behind the punch because the leg is thrusting against the floor.

You can also brace against the ground with the knees if doing gnp and also on your sides or back if on the ground. Leg thrust is an added factor when doing standing punches yes.

2. Why do u quote khusaynov but fail to address the main point he is making and that I was highlighting? Which is that the lower body starts the movement and leads the upper body ? It pulls the upper body forward in a whiplashing motion. Obviously this is only possible if the leg thrusts against the floor. And hence the ground and legs - not the arms and shoulder- is the start of the kinetic chain. The lower body power is then chained with the rest of the body to result on the punch hitting through the target.

The study didn't explicitly look at the sequence of the kinetic chain but rather tried to look at how much there is contribution from different regions. It's main conclusion is that more powerful punchers synchronize the body movements better including adding more leg force, although legs still a lesser contribution overall than upper body.

3. The link u tried to show is about the general movement of the body - not about power movements that require deployment of the kinetic chain to drive a high load and explosive athletic activity. That is why all the sports I raised like baseball, tennis and shot put all require the deployment of the lower body to power the rotation.
No, stop trying to escape and loophole your way out it comes across as desperate. The video shows the muscles involved in rotation including swinging actions , it is exactly relevent.

4 Let me suggest a modified version of the experiment I suggested earlier since u don't know how to punch boxing style. I am assuming that u know how to throw a baseball or softball properly...

Sit with your feet stretched out before you on a bench. Now using solely the shoulder and waist rotation but leading with the shoulder, throw a baseball as far as u can.

Then stand with your feet on the ground and wind up with your hips and legs like how a baseball pitcher knows how to do and throw the baseball as far as u can.

I am sure u will find that u can throw considerably further with the latter method than the former.

Another foolish example since any dimwit is aware that that the legs give additional power to the throw. The question is about if the legs are a more significant contributor which studies suggest otherwise.

5. In fact it is impossible to have a kinetic chain going i u start from the top from your shoulders and try to engage the lower body from the top. This is because the lower body is your base. It is in contact with the ground. U have to start the chain from the base otherwise what is happening is that u r not engaging the power of the lower body at all in your punch and u r not pushing off against the ground first.
No, this is false and shows an overly simplistic grasp of physics.

The kinetic chain connects and engages other body regions to the punch which still starts with the arms and shoulder.

To give a very basic example, imagine a stationary spring action dummy with an arm that shoots out on a spring to make a straight line punch.

Now imagine the same dummy is placed on a turntable that rotates at speed at the same time the arm springs out. Clearly the force from the arm spring is now multiplied but it doesn't mean the force no longer originates there, rather it is synchronized with the added rotation.
I'm sure you should be able to grasp this simple point.
 
You can also brace against the ground with the knees if doing gnp and also on your sides or back if on the ground. Leg thrust is an added factor when doing standing punches yes.



The study didn't explicitly look at the sequence of the kinetic chain but rather tried to look at how much there is contribution from different regions. It's main conclusion is that more powerful punchers synchronize the body movements better including adding more leg force, although legs still a lesser contribution overall than upper body.


No, stop trying to escape and loophole your way out it comes across as desperate. The video shows the muscles involved in rotation including swinging actions , it is exactly relevent.



Another foolish example since any dimwit is aware that that the legs give additional power to the throw. The question is about if the legs are a more significant contributor which studies suggest otherwise.


No, this is false and shows an overly simplistic grasp of physics.

The kinetic chain connects and engages other body regions to the punch which still starts with the arms and shoulder.

To give a very basic example, imagine a stationary spring action dummy with an arm that shoots out on a spring to make a straight line punch.

Now imagine the same dummy is placed on a turntable that rotates at speed at the same time the arm springs out. Clearly the force from the arm spring is now multiplied but it doesn't mean the force no longer originates there, rather it is synchronized with the added rotation.
I'm sure you should be able to grasp this simple point.

If u have any self awareness u should know that very little u say has any credibility on this forum and that when u post people roll their eyes and move on because they know u as a poster who would basically argue the equivalent of the world is flat against all comers all the way to the end and u would never admit u r wrong on anything.

You reveal your own lack of intellectual honesty by the way u argue and your personal insults (e.g. "dimwit") only confirms that u r only arguing for the sake of arguing and u r more interested in having the last word than knowing the truth and getting better.

So this really is me bowing out of this thread as I have said all that I need to say and u r not listening anyway. I leave u with the above and the following closing comments:-

1. What does ground and pound have to do with what we r talking about - which is the mechanics of a standing punch. U change the subject as if u r making a valid point but it is obvious what u r doing is trying to escape the jaws of the problem.

2. I am not talking about bracing at all - it is u who brought it up and I pointed out in reply that u only need to brace because of the force vector u produced in the first place when u threw the punch and that u need to push against the ground. So why r u not replying to qhat i said and instead returning to your bracing point and trying to change the subject?

3. The link u referred to has no relevance to hgh loaded activities that require deployment of the kinetic chain in order to drive them. I am sure u have already googled baseball and tennis and shot put and know that all those activities that I cited are driven by the powerful muscles of the legs and hips that are the most powerful in the body.

4. U r still even now avoiding mentioning the only part of the khusaynov study I was referring to which is the part that found that the lower body leads rhe upper body in the punch in a whiplashig motion. No doubt because it invalidates your thesis...

5. The mechanised example u cited is not a kinetic chain because it is not a chain at all.

A chain means the movement starts at one point and then cascades into the next body part that takes thta momentum and adds to it and passes it on to the next body part. What u described are two entirely independent motions powered by two different machines that have nothing to do with each other. Our whole body movements do not work like that. Unless u r an industrial robot u dont move like that either.

If u have the gumption, try my suggested experiment. U won't because u know I am right.
 
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This is incorrect, and yes you are trying to wriggle out of your initial position.

Leg thrust is not the primary means of power generation in punching power.

This is clear from the studies which attribute a lower percentage contribution from legs than the upper body mechanisms.


Your attempt to salvage your argument is to now claim that torso rotation primarily 'comes from the legs', which is false.

I also separated from the beginning leg thrust (leg power) from waist or torso rotation. The latter is a primarily upper body driven motion in any case, but regardless of contribution any from hip, the primary definition of leg power we including you have been using is of leg thrust/leg spring.

And it is very clear that while being the biggest single factor , legs are still lower than upper body contributions overall to punching power.

@TheMaster you need to just give in bro nobody is going to think of you differently if you just admit your wrong? Also you can’t put full rotation in a punch without legs in the proper footing so in other words everybody in here refuting you is right.
 
Please learn to read and comprehend and make proper comparisons properly before u comment and make yourself look even more foolish than u already look to everyone on this forum....

My comment was clearly on the nature of the kinetic chain. Shot put and boxing punching with the right cross both involve a powerful circular trunk rotation. Both kinetic chains start from the ground. (In fact all athletic movements done standijg up on the ground have kinetic chains that start from the ground and thus from the legs. U however are the only person who tries to start his chain from top down to the ground!)

Nowhere did I suggest that the punch and the shot put push throw are exactly the same. My comment was purely on the nature of both kinetic chains as being primarily driven by the legs exploding from the ground. The fact that a shot put is pushed rather than thrown makes no difference in respect to the nature of the kinetic chain as being driven primarily by the legs and hips from the ground which is what I actually made the comparison wth boxing about.

Given u have nothing to say about the kinetic chain itself I take it that u concede that point. Likewise your failure to comment on baseball pitching and tennis strokes must also be your concession that I am right there. The extra laughable part is thtat baseball pitching sure is throwing and not pushing and so of course u were completely silent on it !

If u want to discuss u should do so properly and not resort to try to score a point by raising a straw man point that others never even made...

@TheMaster is always silent when someone says anything that properly refuted his shit. Idk what his ethnic background is but my people are the same way sometimes don’t know why but it is what it is.
 
If u have any self awareness u should know that very little u say has any credibility on this forum and that when u post people roll their eyes and move on because they know u as a poster who would basically argue the equivalent of the world is flat against all comers all the way to the end and u would never admit u r wrong on anything.

You reveal your own lack of intellectual honesty by the way u argue and your personal insults (e.g. "dimwit") only confirms that u r only arguing for the sake of arguing and u r more interested in having the last word than knowing the truth and getting better.

More weak personal attacks and appeals to some imagined idea of image.

1. What does ground and pound have to do with what we r talking about - which is the mechanics of a standing punch. U change the subject as if u r making a valid point but it is obvious what u r doing is trying to escape the jaws of the problem.
Because from the outset the discussion has been about punching power not just boxing and not even necessarily standing, and it is a good example of power generation without a leg base.

3. The link u referred to has no relevance to hgh loaded activities that require speloyment of the kinetic chain in order to drive them. I am sure u have already googled baseball and tennis and shot put and know that all those activities that I cited are driven by the powerful muscles of the legs and hips that are the most powerful in the body.
How do you come to the strange logic that the video study has no relevence , when it is modelling the same movements i.e a swing, involving the same muscles. It is exactly relevant and you want to avoid it because it further disproves you.

4. U r still even now avoiding mentioning the only part of the khusaynov study I was referring to which is the part that found that the lower body leads rhe upper body in the punch in a whiplashig motion. No doubt because it invalidates your thesis...
Except the study didn't actually look at that or measure it, that was simply their way of explaining how boxing punches are often taught and the rationale. What they studied and found was that coordination of the body was the most important. The results are equally in line with the kinetic chain connecting with punches being driven by and originating in the arm and shoulder, which they are.

5. The mechanised example u cited is not a kinetic chain because it is not a chain at all.

A chain means the movement starts at one point and then cascades into the next body part that takes thta momentum and adds to it and passes it on to the next body part. What u described are two entirely independent motions powered by two different machines that have nothing to do with each other. Our whole body movements do not work like that. Unless u r a cybernetic robot u dont move like that either.

Again, a weak attempt to avoid that fact basic physics disproves you.
Obviously we are more connected than a robot but the fact that an arm punch can still be thrown sitting or in a stationary position shows that a punch originates in the arm and shoulder.

This is really common sense. The rotation of the core and hip is an added part of this chain. Stepping and leg spring is an added factor. If all are synchronized and coordinated , you have more punching power in a full chain. It doesn't change the fact of the mechanics of the punch originating in the arm and shoulder, it is about integrating the other force mechanics..if you can't understand this very simple point there is no point discussing further with you.
 
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8 pages of just utter nonsense. The legs are massively important when it comes to punching power. The "core" is as well, of course, but it is an objective fact that the legs play at important role in generating punching power. Anyone denying that is just flat-out wrong. If I were to guess the order of most to least important, it'd be:

Abdominal muscles
Glutes
Everything above the abdominal muscles
 
Let me try one more to reason with u...

1. Why do u need to brace yourself against the ground? To be able to resist the equal and opposite forces that comes back under newtonian physics when u throw the punch? But how do u even generate the first force vector behind the punch in the first place? By pushing against the ground. Leg thrust is the single most important force contributor behind the punch because the leg is thrusting against the floor.

2. Why do u quote khusaynov but fail to address the main point he is making and that I was highlighting? Which is that the lower body starts the movement and leads the upper body ? It pulls the upper body forward in a whiplashing motion. Obviously this is only possible if the leg thrusts against the floor. And hence the ground and legs - not the arms and shoulder- is the start of the kinetic chain. The lower body power is then chained with the rest of the body to result on the punch hitting through the target. You are unable to see this because u have not trained in a boxing gym before and have never been taught how to punch boxing style.

3. The link u tried to show is about the general movement of the body - not about power movements that require deployment of the kinetic chain to drive a high load and explosive athletic activity. That is why all the sports I raised like baseball, tennis and shot put all require the deployment of the lower body to power the rotation.

4 Let me suggest a modified version of the experiment I suggested earlier since u don't know how to punch boxing style. I am assuming that u know how to throw a baseball or softball properly...

Sit with your feet stretched out before you on a bench. Now using solely the shoulder and waist rotation but leading with the shoulder, throw a baseball as far as u can.

Then stand with your feet on the ground and wind up with your hips and legs like how a baseball pitcher knows how to do and throw the baseball as far as u can.

I am sure u will find that u can throw considerably further with the latter method than the former.

This is because of the power of the legs and lower body and having a proper kinetic chain tying in with human biomechanics and the ground connection.

5. In fact it is impossible to have a kinetic chain going i u start from the top from your shoulders and try to engage the lower body from the top. This is because the lower body is your base. It is in contact with the ground. U have to start the chain from the base otherwise what is happening is that u r not engaging the power of the lower body at all in your punch and u r not pushing off against the ground first.

But once u start with the lower body the kinetic chain cascades upwards through the core through the shoulders and blasts through the punch. It is a CHAIN That naturally connects smoothly upwards into the punch.

However if u start from the shoulder what is happening is that u r not even able to engage the waist as a meaningful part of the chain. Instead the shoulders can only engage with the arm. The wave cannot flow down from the shoulder to the waist and then upwards again into the arm and then into the fist because it si the shoulder that connects to the arm physically. The force is thus much weaker.

If u start with the waist alone without the lower body u can at least engage the shoulders and then the arm and the punch because the wave goes from the waist into the shoulder and then into the arm and then the fist But u cannot engage the lower body and ucannot push off against the ground and all u r doing is sitting on the ground - like the experiment of sitting on the park bench. Where u start the chain is the beginning of the chain.

Look, it is not going to be the end of the world if u realise that u r wrong about something. That happens to people all the time. The difference is that the rational thing to do is to accept it and learn from it and move on, not to uselessly argue against what is patently true.

I'm sorry you had to write all this out.

Even my kids understand that you can punch much harder standing up than you can while sitting down.

And tendons? Well, yeah I mean tendons ligaments muscle and bone are going to be part of any external movement.
 
I'm sorry you had to write all this out.

Even my kids understand that you can punch much harder standing up than you can while sitting down.

And tendons? Well, yeah I mean tendons ligaments muscle and bone are going to be part of any external movement.
If after reading all that and more,then why did you still not understand that no one is disputing that the legs play a role in punching power?
Rather it is confirming the more significant role of the core and upper body as studies have proven, in addition to the legs.

Tendons can be strengthened to increase punching power also and many systems outside western boxing focus on this.

There's more than one way to throw a punch.
 
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