Do you guys give credit to "manufactured" artists who don't write their own music?

I personally don't have to think about it much as I don't listen to pop but rather guitar, bass and drum music played by bands who write their own songs. I admire that more (if they're great songs) than someone who is a fancier vocalist or can dance but didn't write the songs.
 
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The biggest names in music. Micheal Jackson, Mariah Carey, Madonna, Beyonce, backstreet boys, Elvis, the list goes on...

They have teams of people making their music, writing the lyrics, teaching them dance moves, marketing, etc.

We all know the names, but what exactly do we give them credit for if they didn't come up not only with their biggest hits, but ALL their songs and music videos, even when and where they make public apperances, what to say to the public, being coached on what to say when accepting the awards


I dont give any credit to a single person on that list for anything at all.
 
The biggest names in music. Micheal Jackson, Mariah Carey, Madonna, Beyonce, backstreet boys, Elvis, the list goes on...

They have teams of people making their music, writing the lyrics, teaching them dance moves, marketing, etc.

We all know the names, but what exactly do we give them credit for if they didn't come up not only with their biggest hits, but ALL their songs and music videos, even when and where they make public apperances, what to say to the public, being coached on what to say when accepting the awards

- Pretty sure the vast majority of people cant sing like Mariah or Elvis. They're great singers. Not Studio or autotune artists.

Mariah hanging in there with Whitney. She isnt out-matched.





I like Backstreet-Boys.:cool:
 
LOL at Michael Jackson being on this list of people who don't write their own music.

Maybe back in his Jackson 5 days when he was a child but once he broke out as a single artist a giant portion of his songs were written or had direct input by MJ. The dude was a savant...

He was one of those rare talents that didn't know how to read and write music notation (like Frank Sinatra) but possessed a very deep understanding of it.

MJ - Musicianship (wiki)

When composing, he recorded ideas by beatboxing and imitating instruments vocally.[414] Describing the process, he said: "I'll just sing the bass part into the tape recorder. I'll take that bass lick and put the chords of the melody over the bass lick and that's what inspires the melody." Engineer Robert Hoffman recalled that after Jackson came in with a song he had written overnight, Jackson sang every note of every chord to a guitar player. Hoffman also remembered Jackson singing string arrangements part by part into a cassette recorder.
 
The biggest names in music. Micheal Jackson, Mariah Carey, Madonna, Beyonce, backstreet boys, Elvis, the list goes on...

They have teams of people making their music, writing the lyrics, teaching them dance moves, marketing, etc.

We all know the names, but what exactly do we give them credit for if they didn't come up not only with their biggest hits, but ALL their songs and music videos, even when and where they make public apperances, what to say to the public, being coached on what to say when accepting the awards
Michael Jackson wrote and composed many of his biggest hits as an adult, including Billie Jean. He wrote and composed the song by himself and did a home demo in 1981 that was released in the 2000s. Quincy Jones polished it when they did the studio version, but it was Michael's baby. That's why he got sole writing credit for the song.

While it's true that Michael didn't write his early hits, that's because he was a kid at the time. As an adult, mainly starting with Thriller, he wrote a TON of good songs. Billie Jean, Beat It, Bad, Dirty Diana, Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough, The Girl is Mine, Earth Song, Can You Feel It, Wanna be Starting Something, Liberian Girl, Smooth Criminal, Speed Demon, Stranger in Moscow, They Don't Care About Us, The Way You Make Me Feel, Black or White, etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billie_Jean

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Michael_Jackson

As far as I'm concerned, M.J. was a first rate talent, the GOAT entertainer, an excellent songwriter and a creative genius overall. There's really no comparison with him and the other people you mentioned.
 
The first time Michael hit the Stage to sing Billy Jean and do the moves you'd be hard pressed to find another artist to recreate that type of enthrallement on the audience.
You're absolutely right, but even you are selling him short. Look up the history of Billie Jean. M.J. wrote and composed it in 1981 and did a home demo. Studio version was recorded in 1982 and released in November of that year on Thriller. Single version dropped in January 1983. Quincy Jones polished it a bit, but it was Michael's baby. With all due respect to the TS, he should have researched this better. M.J. wrote over 100 songs as an adult, many of them big hits or critically acclaimed. 117 of them have Wikipedia pages. I'm not entirely sure how many songs he wrote overall, but we know he wrote well over 100 at the very least.
 
You're absolutely right, but even you are selling him short. Look up the history of Billie Jean. M.J. wrote and composed it in 1981 and did a home demo. Studio version was recorded in 1982 and released in November of that year on Thriller. Single version dropped in January 1983. Quincy Jones polished it a bit, but it was Michael's baby. With all due respect to the TS, he should have researched this better. M.J. wrote over 100 songs as an adult, many of them big hits or critically acclaimed. 117 of them have Wikipedia pages. I'm not entirely sure how many songs he wrote overall, but we know he wrote well over 100 at the very least.

Boom Dude had issues , but he was a true artist.
 
Dude, what are you smoking? Bob Dylan is one of the most talented and iconic performers of all time.... he literally made his name performing. Jimi's version of Watchtower is amazing, but it's a total different vibe from what Bob did. It doesn't mean Bob isn't also super talented. You need to go back and watch prime Dylan.


I'm quite familiar with all aspects of his career. He's arguably the greatest songwriter in the modern era. And he was a pioneer as a performer in the sense that he broke the mold for people who didn't have a great voice and wasn't very good looking, but was authentic. He paved the way for people like Jimi Hendrix (Hendrix himself said that he wasn't a good singer and that Dylan being the same and succeeding inspired him to be a frontman) and Carole King (who previously wrote songs for people with better voices).

But just as a musical talent, Dylan was above average for the average person, but below average compared to other top musicians. Jimi Hendrix was a MUCH better guitarist and Carole King was a better singer and a better pianist than Dylan was a guitarist. And Dylan's voice has been completely shot for quite some time.
 
Michael Jackson wrote and composed many of his biggest hits as an adult, including Billie Jean. He wrote and composed the song by himself and did a home demo in 1981 that was released in the 2000s. Quincy Jones polished it when they did the studio version, but it was Michael's baby. That's why he got sole writing credit for the song.

While it's true that Michael didn't write his early hits, that's because he was a kid at the time. As an adult, mainly starting with Thriller, he wrote a TON of good songs. Billie Jean, Beat It, Bad, Dirty Diana, Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough, The Girl is Mine, Earth Song, Can You Feel It, Wanna be Starting Something, Liberian Girl, Smooth Criminal, Speed Demon, Stranger in Moscow, They Don't Care About Us, The Way You Make Me Feel, Black or White, etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billie_Jean

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Michael_Jackson

As far as I'm concerned, M.J. was a first rate talent, the GOAT entertainer, an excellent songwriter and a creative genius overall. There's really no comparison with him and the other people you mentioned.

I would argue part of Jacksons sucess was actually that he bucked the trend of a lot of acts were they'd stick to their own compositions BUT end up with albums that had a few memorable songs and then plenty of filler as well.

Jackson basically kept the best of his own songs and then worked with others to fill in the gaps leaving albums without that much filler to them. It meant he got less in terms of song writing royalties relative to album sales BUT the albums also sold a hell of a lot more.
 
The unsung hero of pop music

Max_Martin.jpg


Swedes are elite
 
I'm quite familiar with all aspects of his career. He's arguably the greatest songwriter in the modern era. And he was a pioneer as a performer in the sense that he broke the mold for people who didn't have a great voice and wasn't very good looking, but was authentic. He paved the way for people like Jimi Hendrix (Hendrix himself said that he wasn't a good singer and that Dylan being the same and succeeding inspired him to be a frontman) and Carole King (who previously wrote songs for people with better voices).

But just as a musical talent, Dylan was above average for the average person, but below average compared to other top musicians. Jimi Hendrix was a MUCH better guitarist and Carole King was a better singer and a better pianist than Dylan was a guitarist. And Dylan's voice has been completely shot for quite some time.

Dude just stop lol
 
I would argue part of Jacksons sucess was actually that he bucked the trend of a lot of acts were they'd stick to their own compositions BUT end up with albums that had a few memorable songs and then plenty of filler as well.

Jackson basically kept the best of his own songs and then worked with others to fill in the gaps leaving albums without that much filler to them. It meant he got less in terms of song writing royalties relative to album sales BUT the albums also sold a hell of a lot more.
Yeah, and also there was a transition from being a child star to an adult star and from being in a group to a solo act. When he was 11 and signed with Motown, they had the best songwriters and studio musicians lined up to work with him. And they gave him great material to work with and his talent took it over the top. And then when he transitioned to his adult solo career, he started writing more stuff on his own and doing home demos and also writing and composing with other people. If you want sort of a timeline of the writing credits for his adult solo albums:

Off the Wall: 3 writing credits (out of 10 songs), 2 solo, 1 shared. Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough and Working Day And Night solo, Get on the Floor shared.
Thriller: 4 writing credits (out of 9 songs), 4 solo. Billie Jean, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', Beat It, The Girl is Mine (Paul McCartney appears on the song, but did not write it).
Bad: 9 writing credits (out of 11 songs), 9 solo. All of the songs on the album except Man in the Mirror and Just Good Friends. Jackson also co-produced the album.
Dangerous: 12 writing credits (out of 14 songs). 9 shared, 3 solo. All of the songs except Gone Too Soon and Why You Wanna Trip on Me. Co-producer credit.
History: 12 writing credits (out of 15 new songs, it was a mixture of new material and greatest hits material). 7 solo, 5 shared. All of the songs except You Are Not Alone, Come Together and Smile. Co-producer credit.
Invincible: 14 writing credits (out of 16 songs). 12 shared, 2 solo. All of the songs except Butterflies and Cry. Co-producer credit.

In terms of other writing credits, he was credited for songs he wrote with the Jacksons and also for samples/interpolations of songs that he wrote. So that adds up to at least 117 songs that he wrote or co-wrote.
 
Yeah, and also there was a transition from being a child star to an adult star and from being in a group to a solo act. When he was 11 and signed with Motown, they had the best songwriters and studio musicians lined up to work with him. And they gave him great material to work with and his talent took it over the top. And then when he transitioned to his adult solo career, he started writing more stuff on his own and doing home demos and also writing and composing with other people. If you want sort of a timeline of the writing credits for his adult solo albums:

Off the Wall: 3 writing credits (out of 10 songs), 2 solo, 1 shared. Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough and Working Day And Night solo, Get on the Floor shared.
Thriller: 4 writing credits (out of 9 songs), 4 solo. Billie Jean, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', Beat It, The Girl is Mine (Paul McCartney appears on the song, but did not write it).
Bad: 9 writing credits (out of 11 songs), 9 solo. All of the songs on the album except Man in the Mirror and Just Good Friends. Jackson also co-produced the album.
Dangerous: 12 writing credits (out of 14 songs). 9 shared, 3 solo. All of the songs except Gone Too Soon and Why You Wanna Trip on Me. Co-producer credit.
History: 12 writing credits (out of 15 new songs, it was a mixture of new material and greatest hits material). 7 solo, 5 shared. All of the songs except You Are Not Alone, Come Together and Smile. Co-producer credit.
Invincible: 14 writing credits (out of 16 songs). 12 shared, 2 solo. All of the songs except Butterflies and Cry. Co-producer credit.

In terms of other writing credits, he was credited for songs he wrote with the Jacksons and also for samples/interpolations of songs that he wrote. So that adds up to at least 117 songs that he wrote or co-wrote.

By the time of Bad and Dangerous really it was mostly Jackson but even on Off The Wall and Thriller I think you could argue Jackson came up with the majority of the tracks the albums are best remember for (Rock With You and Thriller being exceptions) so I suspect it was less a lack of songwriting ability and more simply just picking out the best of his ideas.
 
I look at it like acting.

If an actor shows up and reads the lines, that's not an artist.

If an actor takes the dialogues and adds layers to the character, then that's an artist.

Same thing with singers who take lyrics and build something from it.
 
The biggest names in music. Micheal Jackson, Mariah Carey, Madonna, Beyonce, backstreet boys, Elvis, the list goes on...

They have teams of people making their music, writing the lyrics, teaching them dance moves, marketing, etc.

We all know the names, but what exactly do we give them credit for if they didn't come up not only with their biggest hits, but ALL their songs and music videos, even when and where they make public apperances, what to say to the public, being coached on what to say when accepting the awards


MJ had serious talent, Elton John did too. These two and some of the others were/are true artists.
 
MJ had serious talent, Elton John did too. These two and some of the others were/are true artists.
Elton is/was a "melodic genius" even though he couldn't write lyrics. And Bernie Taupin is/was a great lyricist. M.J. could write lyrics and also composed, although his style of composing was unorthodox because he wasn't an instrumentalist and didn't read music. So he would record himself humming melodies and beatboxing and then have someone transcribe it for him and would hire instrumentalists for home demos. And then would polish the songs in the studio with Quincy or whoever.
 
I have no problem with an artist singing a song they didn´t write.

But I´ll say this : back in the day you had to know how to sing good without autotune
 
Same goes for actors.

I can't tell you how many people think movies are good or bad because of who's in them.

Actors should get credit for the acting performance and that's it. No credit for the movie being good.
 
Neither Dylan or Hendrix have what you might call great singing voices, but they rocked what they had.

It's like Billy Corgan, not a great singer, but rocks it and you can't imagine Pumpkins songs being sung by anybody else.
IMO, Hendrix's guitar skills and overall musicality were far superior to Dylan's. And Hendrix even had a slightly better singing voice. Dylan's songwriting ability and longevity gives him a greater body of work and legacy, but Jimi was the better talent by a long shot.
 
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